PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Nov 11, 2015 11:17:40 GMT -5
It's one of the most recognized American movie classics of all-time, by critics and the populace. It's depiction of racism is also iconic. Yes, a lot of that does stem from the novel, but I think the film stands on it's own legs all the same.
As for a fifth spot, I stand by Dr. No. Much as I love Liberty Valance, it doesn't seem to be as impactful as some of there other John Wayne westerns, a few of which we already have listed, and we have Unforgiven to represent the revisionist Western. I'm not sure we need this too.
I feel similarly about Harakiri. It's an amazing film, and part of me wants to list it just to help give it more exposure, but its influence and legacy seem limited.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Nov 11, 2015 11:28:56 GMT -5
Jules and Jim is an important French New Wave movie with some iconic scenes. Ever wonder why Samuel L. Jackson's character in Pulp Fiction is named Jules? It's because his friend played by Quentin Tarantino at the end is named Jim. It's a coded reference to Jules and Jim. And John Travolta plays Vincent. Jules and Vincent were the character names in Twins. Danny DeVito, who played Vincent, is one of the executive producers of Pulp Fiction. |
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IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Nov 11, 2015 11:50:18 GMT -5
Actually, I agree with Dr. No.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Nov 11, 2015 13:52:46 GMT -5
Dr. No isn't even a top 5 best Bond movie though. I get that it started it all, but this is too tough a year for Dr. No to squeak in over superior movies in my opinion.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Nov 11, 2015 15:51:03 GMT -5
How many Bond movies have made the list so far and how many have a shot in future years?
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Post by IanTheCool on Nov 11, 2015 16:12:29 GMT -5
Goldfinger. Thats it.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Nov 11, 2015 16:21:49 GMT -5
If Goldfinger is on there I don't see why we'd need Dr. No.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Nov 11, 2015 16:58:17 GMT -5
Dr. No isn't even a top 5 best Bond movie though. I get that it started it all, but this is too tough a year for Dr. No to squeak in over superior movies in my opinion. But we're not looking at best, we're looking at important. Harakiri, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, What Ever Happened to Baby Jane; all of these movies are probably better, but have the really had the same impact as the debut film of a series that has endured for half a century with 24 films and counting? A film and series which started a trend of spy-mania in the 1960s which has had a ripples in pop culture since? A series which created an iconic representation of masculinity which has endured since? It's also important to note that James Bond had existed before the film in both novels and a made for TV film in the 1950s to minimal success. It was the impact of Dr. No that launched Bond into the stratosphere of popularity. Unlike To Kill a Mockingbird, which benefits greatly from its association to the source material, James Bond's importance is entirely tied to his cinematic legacy, starting with Dr. No. I should also point out that this isn't the Bond fan in me blindly supporting the series. The only other entry I've argued as deserving of placement is Goldfinger. I didn't even push for From Russia with Love, I film I would argue is easily the best of the series and genuinely engrossing thriller. |
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Post by sabin26 on Nov 11, 2015 18:02:35 GMT -5
I see PG Coopers point. Dr. No is significant in that aspect.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Nov 11, 2015 18:23:12 GMT -5
Yeah and I don't disagree with that at all. I just feel like From Russia With Love and Goldfinger are the more fine-tuned, stronger examples of that. I don't have an issue with Dr. No being on there at all, I'm just not personally voting for it either.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Nov 16, 2015 19:37:21 GMT -5
Another reason Dr. No is highly important; Sean Connery. Not only did the film make the man a major star, it also created his cinematic image. We all think of Connery as this suave, sophisticated, cool ass dude, but, as Neverending has pointed out, that wasn't what he was actually like. He was a Scottish athlete and a bit of a brute; Terrence Young is the one who moulded Connery into who we know and love. Additionally, this also differed from how Bond is depicted in the novels, where he's more of an elitist snob than anything. Consider this a further argument in favour of the film as well as a bump to promote discussion. Also, if we aren't gonna go with Dr. No, than I don't think it should be Liberty Valance we place, but Harakiri, given its innovative and unique flashback structure. That said I still think Dr. No is the right choice. |
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Post by IanTheCool on Nov 21, 2015 10:00:25 GMT -5
So... what are we going with?
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Post by IanTheCool on Nov 28, 2015 10:38:27 GMT -5
Going with Dr. No then.
Next year: 1965
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Post by Neverending on Nov 28, 2015 11:20:02 GMT -5
Going with Dr. No then. Next year: 19651965. The biggest year in Hollywood history. The Sound of Music and Doctor Zhivago made a billion dollars each. Thunderball made over $600 million - STILL the most successful James Bond movie. Over in Italy, For a Few Dollars More became the highest grossing film in the history of Italian cinema. It held that record until 1971. That's right. For a Few Dollars More made more money than The Good, The Bad and The Ugly and Once Upon a Time in the West - at least in Italy. It was a different story in North America and France. I'll have to double check the UK. |
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Nov 28, 2015 12:41:11 GMT -5
1. Doctor Zhivago: Huge movie in it's day. Not the best or most well-remembered of Lean's epics, but it fits in well with Bridge on the River Kwai and Lawrence of Arabia.
2. The Sound of Music: Another huge movie. Still beloved by modern audiences.
3. Pierrot le Fou: Seems to be among Godard's most famous films and has had an influence moving forward.
4. The Spy Who Came in From the Cold: This may seem an odd change, but in an era were spies were all about camp and action, this is a dark and realistic portrayal of spy craft during the cold war. It's also the first John le Carre film adaptation.
5. Chimes at Midnight: Though dismissed on initial release, critical reappraisal for this in recent years has been very kind. The battle scenes are said to have influenced Braveheart and Saving Private Ryan, and the film is also an interesting example of adapting Shakespeare in a unique way rather than just copying him.
Honourable Mentions:
Gertrud: Carl Theodore Dryer's final film. Highly acclaimed and reportedly features some sweet long takes.
Thunderball: The most financially successful Bond film, but Dr. No and Goldfinger are enough.
Repulsion: An important step in Roman Polanski's aesthetic.
Red Beard: Kurosawa's final black and white film and final collaboration with Toshiro Mifune. End of an era.
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Post by Dracula on Nov 28, 2015 12:56:26 GMT -5
Red Beard: Kurosawa's last epic with Toshiro Mifune, the end of an era
Repulsion: Probably the movie that most clearly defined Polanski's style
Juliet of the Spirits: Fellini's first color movie and just a very strong effort
Sound of Music, The: The movie that launched a thousand musicals that would be derided in the later half of the decade and inspire a backlash that led to the creation of the New Hollywood.
Darling: Launched the careers of John Schlesinger and Julie Christie, had a big influence on the style of the era and helped move English language cinema towards the New Wave.
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Post by Neverending on Nov 28, 2015 13:14:30 GMT -5
Sound of Music, The: The movie that launched a thousand musicals that would be derided in the later half of the decade and inspire a backlash that led to the creation of the New Hollywood. What are you talking about? Post-Studio System Hollywood made its first impact only two years later, in 1967, when films like Bonnie & Clyde, Cool Hand Luke, and The Graduate were released. Then came 1968 when the MPAA abandoned the Hays Code and introduced the ratings system. "New Hollywood" has nothing to do with Sound of Music. It's a result of television, the extinction of movie palaces and the end of censorship. |
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Post by IanTheCool on Nov 28, 2015 14:07:19 GMT -5
None the less, if Sound of Music doesn't make this important list, we may as well abandon this whole endeavor.
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Post by Neverending on Nov 28, 2015 14:45:02 GMT -5
None the less, if Sound of Music doesn't make this important list, we may as well abandon this whole endeavor. It's the third highest grossing film of all-time and won five Academy Awards, including Best Picture. It probably deserves a spot. |
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Nov 28, 2015 14:47:44 GMT -5
It's so far the only film the four of us have all agreed on. It'll make it.
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Post by Neverending on Nov 28, 2015 14:50:36 GMT -5
It's so far the only film the four of us have all agreed on. It'll make it. The hills are alive with the approval of this movie. |
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Dec 3, 2015 11:47:52 GMT -5
After doing some research, I'd be willing to drop either The Spy Who Came in from the Cold or Chimes at Midnight for Darling.
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Dec 7, 2015 17:25:42 GMT -5
Pierrot le Fou
Doctor Zhivago
The Sound of Music
Alphaville
Repulsion
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Post by IanTheCool on Dec 13, 2015 11:34:20 GMT -5
Okay, the only films with multiple votes so far are:
Doctor Zhivago
Sound of Music
Pierrot le Fou
Repulsion
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Dec 13, 2015 15:01:06 GMT -5
Reading up on Darling, I feel okay supporting it. I do have to question Repulsion a little bit though. Certainly an important step in Polanski's own evolution, but does it's importance grow beyond just Polanski?
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