Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Nov 14, 2014 1:02:45 GMT -5
Neverending showed the only famous part from Robocop. LOL. You are truly out-of-the-loop if you seriously believe that. I'm thinking maybe Wall Street shouldn't be a lock on this. Let's be real. If we had to sacrifice a movie, it would be Full Metal Jacket. It's a lesser Kubrick movie. It's a lesser Vietnam movie. Most people don't remember anything beyond the training scenes, except for "me so horny." The movie isn't really that popular. Predator is more popular. La Bamba is more popular. Shit, Freddy Kruger is more popular. And I know you'll TRY to make the same arguments about Wall Street, but the fact is, it influenced the people who ruined this country during the 2000's. Don't underestimate the impact of Gordon Gekko. Rich white people with power do not consider Wall Street a throwaway movie.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Nov 14, 2014 1:24:09 GMT -5
Neverending showed the only famous part from Robocop. LOL. You are truly out-of-the-loop if you seriously believe that. I'm thinking maybe Wall Street shouldn't be a lock on this. Let's be real. If we had to sacrifice a movie, it would be Full Metal Jacket. It's a lesser Kubrick movie. It's a lesser Vietnam movie. Most people don't remember anything beyond the training scenes, except for "me so horny." The movie isn't really that popular. Predator is more popular. La Bamba is more popular. Shit, Freddy Kruger is more popular. And I know you'll TRY to make the same arguments about Wall Street, but the fact is, it influenced the people who ruined this country during the 2000's. Don't underestimate the impact of Gordon Gekko. Rich white people with power do not consider Wall Street a throwaway movie. First of all, this is a most important list, not a most popular list. Secondly, I think the training sequence more than important enough on its own to make the list. Thirdly, there is some famous stuff in the second half: there's the sniper sequence, the "inside of every gook there's an American trying to break free" speech, there's the "I'm I'm going to die for a word it's going to be poon tang speech... the list goes on. And finally, I think the movie is in general a lot more popular than you think, it's definitely a popular movie among the male dorm room set and R. Lee Ermey's various insults are widely quoted. As for Wall Street... the notion that it's really all that responsible for inspiring greedy people is a little silly. Greedy people were doing bullshit like that before Wall Street, they were doing bullshit at the same time as Wall Street, and they were always going to be doing stuff like that after Wall Street. And given that the film was meant to be and indictment of Wall Street greed with Gordon Gekko as its villain, being held up as the "inspiration" for the modern class of banksters is a rather dubious honor.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Nov 14, 2014 2:07:07 GMT -5
First of all, this is a most important list, not a most popular list. Which is why no one is making a case for Predator. But... 1987 was 27 years ago. If a movie still has public awareness, you can't just sweep it under the rug. And the fact that Full Metal Jacket isn't really "mainstream" shouldn't be swept either. Let's not forget that cinema is still relatively young. That's why so many movies are still on the radar. But in 500 years or 1,000 years there will be millions of movies forgotten by time. The ones still remembered will be the ones embraced by the masses. Look at literature. What has survived? Shakespeare, who was technically a hack. Most of his stories were actually remakes. King Arthur. Robin Hood. The Grimms' tales. None of those are "works of art." They're pop culture. Did you know that after Top Gun there was a major increase in young men signing up for the air force? Can you actually believe that people joined the military, a place you could be killed, because of a fucking movie? Do not underestimate cinema. In fact... isn't that the point of this thread? If Oliver Stone and Michael Douglas ironically guided people into a career in the stock market, that shouldn't be ignored. Especially since those very people are the ones who ruined our lives. There is a reason why Stone and Douglas made a Wall Street 2 and there's a reason why Martin Scorsese and Leonardo DiCaprio made The Wolf of Wall Street.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Nov 14, 2014 2:26:53 GMT -5
First of all, this is a most important list, not a most popular list. Which is why no one is making a case for Predator. But... 1987 was 27 years ago. If a movie still has public awareness, you can't just sweep it under the rug. And the fact that Full Metal Jacket isn't really "mainstream" shouldn't be swept either. Let's not forget that cinema is still relatively young. That's why so many movies are still on the radar. But in 500 years or 1,000 years there will be millions of movies forgotten by time. The ones still remembered will be the ones embraced by the masses. Look at literature. What has survived? Shakespeare, who was technically a hack. Most of his stories were actually remakes. King Arthur. Robin Hood. The Grimms' tales. None of those are "works of art." They're pop culture. Eyeroll. Half of the most respected artists and writers in history have been obscure in their own times and were only appreciated after they died. More often than not the masses embrace the Salieris, not the Motzarts.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Nov 14, 2014 3:42:09 GMT -5
More often than not the masses embrace the Salieris, not the Motzarts. If you say so.
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Deexan
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Post by Deexan on Nov 14, 2014 6:25:14 GMT -5
The fact that Robocop is often considered a rival to The Terminator Shakespeare, who was technically a hack You truly are the gift that keeps on giving.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Nov 14, 2014 10:04:25 GMT -5
I agree with Neverending's argument for Wall Street, but not against Full Metal Jacket. FMJ stays.
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IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Nov 14, 2014 18:23:47 GMT -5
I feel like a 1987 list without Robocop would be pretty deficient, although I don't have too many ironclad arguments for it's influence. Is it too late to bring Wings of Desire back into the conversation? I feel like the list as it stands is overly Hollywood. I'm okay with Wings of Desire being there, after looking into it more.
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IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Nov 14, 2014 18:37:52 GMT -5
Okay, We're calling it:
The tallies show: Full Metal Jacket Wall Street Lethal Weapon Robocop Princess Bride
Next year: 2002
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iverdawg
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Post by iverdawg on Nov 14, 2014 18:38:19 GMT -5
If any Wim Wenders film deserves to get in, I'd argue for Paris, Texas, though it's in what's arguably the most stacked year ever: 1984. I'll make my case for it then though. Good list though.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Nov 14, 2014 18:40:56 GMT -5
Does City of God count for 2002 or 2003?
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Jibbs
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Post by Jibbs on Nov 14, 2014 19:23:50 GMT -5
City of God (?) Spider-Man The Ring The Bourne Identity
The Pianist? Minority Report? 25th Hour?
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Nov 14, 2014 20:56:07 GMT -5
Knowing Ian, he's not gonna count City of God. So...
Bowling for Columbine The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers Minority Report The Ring Spider-Man
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Post by PG Cooper on Nov 15, 2014 10:08:17 GMT -5
Assuming City of God doesn't count....
1. Spider-Man: Massive hit and solidified the superhero genre as the genre for the coming years.
2. Minority Report: It's questions regarding the lengths we go to punish crime were and are extremely timely and relevant.
3. 25th Hour: One of, if not the first film to deal with what life was like in New York City after 9/11. No, that may not be the plot of the movie, but it's undeniably a huge part. Also the last great film from Spike Lee, at least as of yet.
4. The Bourne Identity: Redefined the action/spy genre and had a pretty strong influence on other action films, most notably 007 himself.
5. The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers: I debated keeping this off the list given that it's merely the middle entry and didn't have the same impact as the first or third did, but then I remembered Gollum and how cutting edge that CGI seemed in 2002 and reconsidered. In fact, the effects and scale were definitely stepped up from the first and that was a big deal.
Honourable Mentions:
The Pianist: It's a phenomenal and powerful film, but I think Schindler's List will always be considered the definitive Holocaust film.
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets: It proved the series had legs beyond the first film, but outside of that it's mostly more of the same.
Gangs of New York: Admirable Scorsese passion project, but no one seems to care.
Adaptation: It's another great film, an among the best Charlie Kaufman scripts, but it didn't have the impact of comparable works.
About Schmidt: This is actually my favourite Alexander Payne movie, but it was with Sideways that he truly arrived.
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IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Nov 15, 2014 10:50:59 GMT -5
City of God can be 2002.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Nov 15, 2014 10:53:49 GMT -5
Spider-man The Ring Minority Report City of God 25th hour
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Post by Dracula on Nov 15, 2014 11:15:39 GMT -5
City of God Spider-Man Minority Report 25th Hour Lord of The Rings: The Two Towers, The
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Post by PG Cooper on Nov 15, 2014 11:24:17 GMT -5
In that case Two Towers is out of my list and City of God is in.
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Post by Jibbs on Nov 15, 2014 11:41:51 GMT -5
City of God Spider-Man The Bourne Identity Minority Report 25th Hour
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IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Nov 15, 2014 11:49:54 GMT -5
I think I agree with JBond's list, but I might need some convincing on 25th hour
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Post by PG Cooper on Nov 15, 2014 11:53:38 GMT -5
Some fun facts about the important movies that have made the cut so far:
- The first filmmaker to get more than one film on the list is Ian and I's favourite, Paul Thomas Anderson (Boogie Nights and There Will Be Blood). Since then, only two other filmmakers have achieved getting two films on the list; Stanley Kubrick (Dr. Strangelove and Full Metal Jacket) and Paul Verhoeven (Starship Troopers and RoboCop).
- Of the fifteen years we've done, only seven Best Picture winners have made the list (It Happened One Night, Titanic, Dances with Wolves, On the Waterfront, Unforgiven, No Country for Old Men, and Gone with the Wind).
- Our choices for 2006 and 1987 feature no Best Picture nominees
- There are 15 foreign language films (L'Atalante, Princess Mononoke, I Am Cuba, Close-Up, Seven Samurai, Godzilla, Grand Illusion, Pan's Labyrinth, Faust, The Adventures of Prince Achmed, El Mariachi, Hard Boiled, 4 Months 3 Weeks 2 Days, Le Samourai, and the Rules of the Game).
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IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Nov 15, 2014 11:59:37 GMT -5
Cool, thanks PG. And boy oh boy do I love PTA! Boogie Nights isn't an overblown pile of junk at all!
The BP thing is interesting. I do remember the nominees for 2006 to be odd choices and not very representative of many of the great films that the year had.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Nov 15, 2014 11:59:51 GMT -5
I just realized, we also said we'd consider Spirited Away for 2002, so that should definitely be brought into the discussion. We should also reconsider what year for City of God. It's Oscar nominations were for 2003 films for example, and this year's filling up fast. On that note, what about 28 Days Later? Released in the UK in 2002, everywhere else in 2003.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Nov 15, 2014 12:04:38 GMT -5
Spider-man The Ring Minority Report City of God 25th hour Take out The Ring. Add Spirited Away.
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IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Nov 15, 2014 12:05:17 GMT -5
Thoughts?
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