Important Movies

Dracula, this is my argument. There's a significant cult around the movie, one which brought it to significant distribution after theaters, when it got no support from the studio.

Now, the movie regularly makes "best comedy" lists, but back then it was a movie which basically clawed its way up from nothing. He'll, Swingline didn't even make a red stapler before this movie, but was forced to due to consumer demand after the movie.


Even today, these are the jokes which permeate desk jobs, not The Office.

Office Space is a much more memorable movie than Magnolia and will be remembered for longer, with a greater influence on culture.

I had literally forgotten that Magnolia existed until it was brought up in this thread. I suspect the same is true of much of the movie going public.

It's the circle jerk film criticismism pick of the year. The Danish Girl of 1999.

Just because comedies are shortchanged in film criticism circles doesn't mean that they should be shortchanged here.

Aside from Tom Cruise and the frogs, I don't remember jack shit about Magnolia. Honestly. Punch Drunk Love is more memorable and that movie is garbage. Office Space, you're right, it isn't that great but it does stick with you. I remember the printer getting destroyed, the Michael Bolton jokes, the asshole boss, Jennifer Aniston and her pins, the stupid fat guy with the glasses, etc. I think most people feel the same.

I think our argument is that it has more of a cultural impact than Magnolia does. I think everyone's PTA-lust is geting in the way of realizing that Magnolia really isnt that big a deal.

Honestly, I dont know why we aren't considering Sixth Sense more. It had a huge cultural impact still felt today. Everyone knows the "I see dead people" line and basic premise, and of course this movie is inextricably tied with the concept of the twist ending now. Heck, Phantom Menace deserves to be there far more than Magnolia.

I've just gone ahead and quoted a lot of the arguments that Drac and I have put forth for Magnolia. In a nutshell, the film sparked a revival of the hyperlink format while simultaneously pushing the genre to its limits, is one of the most praised films of the last twenty years, is considered the third best film of 1999 in a poll that includes both critics and general audiences, it's a film that incites a huge passion from many people, has two sequences (the cast singing "Wise Up" and the frogs raining) which are unique, bold, and have been referenced/parodied since, its a film which continues to inspire a younger generation of filmmakers and inspiring filmmakers, and is generally an incredibly bold and daring film which take chances that set it apart from any other films, even the ones which inspired it. Something else to consider is the Aimee Mann music. The original song "Save Me" and several other songs from the soundtrack have been appropriated in other movies, TV shows, and commercials thanks to Magnolia.

On the other side, the biggest argument against Magnolia is that it isn't popular with the general public. General popularity is definitely something that should be considered, but there are a lot of other factors determining a movie's importance beyond just what general audiences think. Do you think the general public knows a lot about Bottle Rocket, Breaking the Waves, Chunking Express, Ringu, Close-Up, Princess Mononoke, Three Colours Blue, or El Mariachi? Probably not, but all of those films are listed anyway, because there importance stems far beyond what a casual moviegoer might thing.

As for Office Space, I'd also say it isn't very important. The Office has overshadowed it, there are lots of other examples of successful cult films, and on the whole I don't think it's nearly as popular as you guys are giving it credit for. Maybe it has a certain niche audience, but most modern audiences don't care. The only argument I can see really going for it is its representation of men trapped in shitty office jobs and unfulfilled lives...but Fight Club, The Matrix, and American Beauty also show that and are more worthy given there are other things which make them important as well.

Magnolia is only one slot on each of our lists. My other picks are currently filled with The Matrix and Fight Club (both of which are still extremely popular) and The Blair Witch Project and American Beauty (two films whose popularity has cooled over the years, but were big in their day and made a substantial enough impact). All that to say my list is actually pretty populist on the whole. Also, this is not blind love for PTA. I fucking love The Master and I adamantly fought against it's placement for 2012, for example. I'd also consider switching out American Beauty for The Sixth Sense for the impact of the twist and some of the iconic lines, but I think Neverending brings up an excellent point regarding M. Night's career since. As time goes on, he is less and less remembered for The Sixth Sense and more remembered for shit like The Happening. Even when The Visit scored some positive buzz, the narrative wasn't "return to form from the director of The Sixth Sense", it was "M. Night makes film that isn't total dog shit".

And again, we come back to the argument of "important". Are we deeming importance by cultural relevancy in terms of pop culture references, box office, lasting impact? Or are we deeming importance in the realm of cinema? That when you look at 1999, these 5 movies define the cinematic movement of the year that created ripples in the film industry to come. That's how I look at this debate. Sometimes those two go hand in hand, like The Matrix; a great film that had an enormous impact cinematically and culturally. Not always though. Office Space is a fun movie, and if this was a top 10 list I'd say yeah let's put it on there. But aside from funny quotes and scenes, what is the cinematic importance here?

I understand Magnolia is not a movie everyone will get behind, and I think Anderson is easily one of the best, most daring filmmakers out there today, but that's not entirely why I put Magnolia on this list. From a technical standpoint it has Anderson's typical brilliance behind the camera with elaborate tracking shots through hallways (Boogie Nights gets all the kudos for this but people sometimes forget that Magnolia pulls all of this off just as well), a superb handling of an enormous cast where each character has actual weight and isn't just a glorified cameo, and proposes questions about human contact and the impact that each action we take has on the world around us. Office Space is... a fun movie. And there's nothing wrong with that at all. It's funnier than Magnolia and more enjoyable in a breezy entertainment way to be sure. But in every other facet that we compare films against each other in, frankly it gets its ass whooped. Movies like Office Space come out every few years, that comedy that everyone loves and deservedly so. Should The Hangover be on this list? I sure don't think so.

Movies like Magnolia are not a dime a dozen. In fact the movies that have been brought up in comparison (Babel, Crash) are nowhere near as good as Magnolia and fail to reign in the complex juggling act that Magnolia handles expertly. So what is importance? A lasting impact on American culture, or a lasting impact on American cinema? This is a movie discussion, so to me that is hands down Magnolia.

What about Sixth Sense?

PG Cooper, please switch out your vote for American Beauty to something else in order to keep the discussion going.

If you guys absolutely must have Office Space on the list, let's ditch American Beauty and put Magnolia and Office Space in the last two slots.  I'd also be willing to drop Blair Witch if anyone want's to revisit that movie's worthyness.

I should mention that I won't try to block Office Space from making the list. I've made my case for why I don't think it's worthy and why other films (Sixth Sense, American Beauty, Being John Malkovich, The Phantom Menace) are more significant, but all of those films have certain weaknesses too in terms of importance, so I don't think we'd necessarily be making some egregious oversight for leaving any of them off. I'd be okay with compromising and making our five The Matrix, Fight Club, The Blair Witch Project, Office Space, and Magnolia.

I was going with Office Space because I dont want Magnolia.