SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Jan 10, 2018 1:05:48 GMT -5
Excellent essay, really enjoyed it. I've never really questioned Gittes as a protagonist before, but you make some very strong points about him. You're right that the film bears its roots in its cynicism, especially in regards to the evil and powerful being punished in this world, and that Jake should know better than anyone that this is the case. But he's also a character plagued by the wrongs in his past, so blowing this case open on his own (remember also that Gittes has a very contentious relationship with the LAPD and Lou Escobar) in order to remedy those mistakes is very likely what propels him most to attempt to be the hero. Very strong point and conversation on the film which I think is made even more interesting being a noir. Typically in noirs, even if the bad guy wins or the protagonist is more of an anti-hero than a morally upright figure, there's some sense of justice that's constantly being carried out. In Chinatown, there really isn't. You get the sense that though Los Angeles at this point is a well-established city that it was almost operating on its own terms in its infancy, and powerful people like Noah Cross can go unchecked, and as you pointed out that's exactly what happens. The bad guys don't really lose anything here, while the "heroes" suffer great losses, all culminating in Evelyn's death at the end of the film. Chinatown is a beautiful film that does present a romantic look at 1930s LA, but you're right that at its core it's a highly cynical film that doesn't compromise that stance. Thanks, Sno. Jake's efforts to save Evelyn being an attempt at redemption is something I hadn't really considered, but it does make sense. And yeah, the way Chinatown plunges even further down the cynical path of noirs is really compelling. Also, side note, I got my first super hateful comment on my Barry Lyndon video and I feel like I've passed a huge milestone. It's even funnier since it's clear the dude only watched the first 16 seconds of my video and angrily dumped out three paragraphs about how much he hates me. Yeah, his redemption coupled with the fact he's a total narcissist and also the LAPD wasn't his friend. I'm sure Robert Towne would tell you Jake can't go to the police because Cross probably controls them too. And maybe Jake could've driven her off to safety, but I'm sure the idea is that eventually Cross would find them. I think the point is more that evil permeates throughout the LA hierarchy, and that evil goes mostly unchecked. In the end, maybe no matter what Jake does, Evelyn dies. His efforts are forever futile because he alone can't cripple the corrupt system. Evelyn will either submit to Cross or die, and there are no other alternatives.
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Deexan
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Post by Deexan on Jan 10, 2018 4:40:42 GMT -5
I got my first super hateful comment on my Barry Lyndon video and I feel like I've passed a huge milestone. It's even funnier since it's clear the dude only watched the first 16 seconds of my video and angrily dumped out three paragraphs about how much he hates me. Fear not, Coop. We, the Coming Soon! Social Justice League, have heeded your call and will be dealing with this rapscallion forthwith.
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Jan 14, 2018 19:38:02 GMT -5
Another excellent video, especially since I just re-watched Chinatown last month and had my appreciation for it become deeper.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Jan 17, 2018 16:58:55 GMT -5
Another excellent video, especially since I just re-watched Chinatown last month and had my appreciation for it become deeper. Glad to hear! It's also taken me repeat viewings for Chinatown to really click with me.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Mar 15, 2018 15:28:29 GMT -5
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Mar 15, 2018 16:09:16 GMT -5
A director is a curator of taste. If you want an example of a movie created by its crew, look no further than Star Wars:
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Mar 15, 2018 16:14:01 GMT -5
A director is a curator of taste. If you want an example of a movie created by its crew, look no further than Star Wars: I am hesitant to completely throw Lucas under the bus, but Star Wars is a great example of how the rest of a crew can shape a film in profound ways. We actually talked about that in one of my tutorials. Also that documentary is pretty dope. I do wish it could probe deeper into the filmmaking, but there's some interesting insights in how the film was made.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Mar 15, 2018 16:19:43 GMT -5
A director is a curator of taste. If you want an example of a movie created by its crew, look no further than Star Wars: I am hesitant to completely throw Lucas under the bus, but Star Wars is a great example of how the rest of a crew can shape a film in profound ways. We actually talked about that in one of my tutorials. Also that documentary is pretty dope. I do wish it could probe deeper into the filmmaking, but there's some interesting insights in how the film was made. Lucas is a hard nut to crack. American Graffiti is evidence that he has some talent but the rest of his career contradicts that. I’m in the camp that believes Star Wars was rescued by the people around Lucas. I wouldn’t compare that to Orson Welles. Citizen Kane is very much his vision brought to life with the support of his crew.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Mar 15, 2018 16:27:29 GMT -5
I am hesitant to completely throw Lucas under the bus, but Star Wars is a great example of how the rest of a crew can shape a film in profound ways. We actually talked about that in one of my tutorials. Also that documentary is pretty dope. I do wish it could probe deeper into the filmmaking, but there's some interesting insights in how the film was made. Lucas is a hard nut to crack. American Graffiti is evidence that he has some talent but the rest of his career contradicts that. I’m in the camp that believes Star Wars was rescued by the people around Lucas. I wouldn’t compare that to Orson Welles. Citizen Kane is very much his vision brought to life with the support of his crew. Yeah, it was less about comparing Welles and Lucas directly and more citing a different example of a scenario where thinking the director did everything is misleading.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Mar 15, 2018 22:43:55 GMT -5
Another great essay, Coop. Citizen Kane is undoubtedly the most discussed film in cinematic history, yet I always find myself learning something new about it.
I've always felt in regards to Pauline Kael that her argument is totally moot. Even if Welles didn't write nearly as much Citizen Kane as he claimed, the vision (as you pointed out was drastically shaped by Gregg Toland) beyond the screenplay is what Citizen Kane is known for anyways. The script is great, sure, but the reason Citizen Kane is regarded as numero uno is the trademarks you touched on: incredible use of wide angles and deep focus, groundbreaking use of low angles to highlight perspective and shifting power dynamics, the fantastic blocking of actors to also further these power dynamics, the beautiful contrast in the images, and of course Welles' brilliant performance as Charles Kane. It just always felt to me like a feeble attempt at diminishing Welles and trying to knock Citizen Kane down from its godly pedestal.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Mar 15, 2018 23:15:44 GMT -5
Another great essay, Coop. Citizen Kane is undoubtedly the most discussed film in cinematic history, yet I always find myself learning something new about it. I've always felt in regards to Pauline Kael that her argument is totally moot. Even if Welles didn't write nearly as much Citizen Kane as he claimed, the vision (as you pointed out was drastically shaped by Gregg Toland) beyond the screenplay is what Citizen Kane is known for anyways. The script is great, sure, but the reason Citizen Kane is regarded as numero uno is the trademarks you touched on: incredible use of wide angles and deep focus, groundbreaking use of low angles to highlight perspective and shifting power dynamics, the fantastic blocking of actors to also further these power dynamics, the beautiful contrast in the images, and of course Welles' brilliant performance as Charles Kane. It just always felt to me like a feeble attempt at diminishing Welles and trying to knock Citizen Kane down from its godly pedestal. I like Kael a lot, but her essay has basically been completely dismissed for shoddy research and poorly constructed arguments. I think she let her sensationalist instincts overtake her academic ones. Glad you enjoyed the video! I felt a little silly posting it here given that ot was made for first years not folks who really know the film so I'm glad it still has some value.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Mar 16, 2018 0:09:45 GMT -5
Pauline Kael was a good writer but her understanding of auteur theory was always flawed and her Kane essay was pretty much straight-up trolling.
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Deexan
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Post by Deexan on Mar 16, 2018 0:52:17 GMT -5
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daniel
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Post by daniel on Mar 17, 2018 9:11:46 GMT -5
never saw CK
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Mar 17, 2018 16:54:31 GMT -5
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Mar 21, 2018 0:18:38 GMT -5
It’s alright.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Mar 21, 2018 9:23:25 GMT -5
It's pretty great. Honestly, it's "best film of all-time" rep is something of a disservice. That label makes it sound like a long, ponderous affair, but the film is a lot more fun to watch than I think many people expect. It moves with a great sweep, the performances are grandiose and entertaining, there's some really sharp dialogue, and the movie is just full of big, fun sequences.
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Mar 21, 2018 12:00:24 GMT -5
I was being a smartass. I actually haven’t watched Citzen Kane in years. I have the 70th anniversary blu-ray box, maybe I’ll crack it open and give it a whirl in the next few days.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Mar 21, 2018 14:02:43 GMT -5
I was being a smartass. I actually haven’t watched Citzen Kane in years. I have the 70th anniversary blu-ray box, maybe I’ll crack it open and give it a whirl in the next few days. Lol, I know. That box-set is pretty good. The tv movie RKO 281 (which I used a lot for footage) is also pretty entertaining for what it is.
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Mar 23, 2018 1:22:37 GMT -5
I broke out my blu-ray box of Citizen Kane and it has some pretty dandy special features. I'll have to spend a weekend sometime going through all this stuff. Coop, would you be able to track down any of the documentaries on here?
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Mar 24, 2018 15:35:03 GMT -5
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Mar 24, 2018 15:36:05 GMT -5
I broke out my blu-ray box of Citizen Kane and it has some pretty dandy special features. I'll have to spend a weekend sometime going through all this stuff. Coop, would you be able to track down any of the documentaries on here? I did go through most of the special features in the set a few years ago. They're pretty awesome. That Ebert commentary is really great. It's like a mini-film school.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Mar 24, 2018 18:08:38 GMT -5
This video so short you tricked me into watching the whole thing. I'm on to you, Cooper.
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Deexan
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Post by Deexan on Mar 24, 2018 18:43:14 GMT -5
Beautiful content, as always.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Mar 25, 2018 8:43:08 GMT -5
This video so short you tricked me into watching the whole thing. I'm on to you, Cooper. Mission accomplished. Beautiful content, as always. Thanks, Deex. I'm pretty happy with how this one turned out.
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