PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Sept 1, 2020 17:13:03 GMT -5
NC's theaters still closed till at least October 2nd. Goddamn it.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Sept 1, 2020 18:02:07 GMT -5
NC's theaters still closed till at least October 2nd. Goddamn it. Punishment for voting in Joker.
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donny
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Post by donny on Sept 1, 2020 18:58:09 GMT -5
Tenet really is Joker. That's the big twist.
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Sept 1, 2020 19:18:38 GMT -5
NC's theaters still closed till at least October 2nd. Goddamn it. Punishment for voting in Joker. I wasn't the only one.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Sept 1, 2020 20:36:44 GMT -5
Punishment for voting in Joker. I wasn't the only one. They too will face judgement.
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1godzillafan
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Post by 1godzillafan on Sept 1, 2020 21:34:25 GMT -5
Joker > Tenet
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Sept 3, 2020 22:11:50 GMT -5
Saw it. Not really proud of myself for going what with the pandemic but I managed to get into a relatively empty screening and kept my distance.
As for the movie... not an easy movie to follow... kind of could have used a bit more of that exposition writing Doomsday loves so much. In fact a lot of it only started making sense later on, almost like it was designed so that your future self will be able to make sense of the first half on a rewatch which is... apt, I guess.
Also has there been any controversy about that whole opera house thing in the opening scene, which was clearly inspired by a real hostage situation that ended with dozens of hostages being killed by the knockout gas? It's similar to the point where I wasn't sure if they were time traveling back to the actual event.
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Wyldstaar
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Post by Wyldstaar on Sept 3, 2020 22:23:18 GMT -5
While Tenet isn't a bad movie, I wouldn't say that it's particularly good, either. The shots involving temporal inversion are well done. The sound is absolutely awful, to the point where almost the entire movie would have benefited from subtitles. I had to infer half of what was said through visual cues. While Nolan's playing with the flow of time is executed flawlessly in Memento and Inception, he struggles to pull it off in a way that's readily grasped in Tenet.
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Sept 3, 2020 22:55:49 GMT -5
kind of could have used a bit more of that exposition writing Doomsday loves so much. Be careful what you wish for my friend.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Sept 4, 2020 14:37:50 GMT -5
2020 has not been a year of record for movies to say the least. Before seeing Tenet last night I hadn't been to a theater since January, every movie scheduled to come out was either delayed indefinitely or released to streaming and on demand services, and almost nothing of actual merit had really warranted returning to the slowly reopening theaters in the first place. But finally, finally, Christopher Nolan's highly anticipated new film, Tenet, is out and the longest absent streak from theaters in my entire life was finally broken in what will likely be the film that gets others back to the movies as well. But how will people react to Tenet, a film that blends Nolan's panache for dazzling his audiences with the refined spectacle of massive in scope practical set pieces and action that has catapulted him to being the biggest big movie director in Hollywood with the heady and oftentimes downright confusing themes at Tenet's core? The obvious film to compare this to is 2010's Inception, but that's really not accurate at all. Inception, for all its philosophical musings and puzzle box structure, was still a wildly entertaining summer blockbuster that enraptured its viewers instead of alienating them, a feat that's still highly impressive to this day. Tenet though, while containing some equally incredible action sequences and mind bending fun, is a much more difficult film to embrace and even understand due to its concept being presented in at times highly convoluted manners and surrounding a sort of failed marriage storyline that never takes off. Tenet is a film that demands a rewatch or two to catch bits of dialogue that would perhaps clear up some of the confusion from an initial viewing, but getting the casual viewer to entertain watching Tenet again is highly unlikely. I can say with confidence that this was my least favorite Christopher Nolan film despite very much liking it overall, and it's going to be a highly polarizing movie that will garner as much scorn as it does praise from both sides of the aisle.
You know you're in for a more challenging kind of cinematic experience when the protagonist's name is The Protagonist, here played by John David Washington. We've seen this sort of "no name, name" game done before, but generally from more arthouse directors like Lars Von Trier with the characters of He and She in Antichrist or Lanthimos' Dogtooth where the members of the family don't have names but are classified by their delineation within the family, like Father and Mother. The Protagonist works for a sort of covert tactical unit that's performing an extraction in the opening sequence at an opera house that's under siege by terrorists. This sequence works well to establish some of intense combat that Nolan excels in while also giving us quick glimpses into the sort of temporal action that defines the film. The Protagonist passes another test and is then flung into the secret world of Tenet, where he learns that in the future a pair of scientists have developed their theory of world entropy by blurring the lines of temporal structure that keep our lives on a linear path. What a lot of this translates to in action scene layman's terms are that bullets, objects, and hand-to-hand combat can be done in forward time, backwards time, or even a combination of both. Nolan, working again here with cinematographer Hoyte Van Hoytema, filmed these scenes both forwards and backwards, allowing him unique editing abilities and his actors to have slightly askew, obtuse movements that sort of seem like they're traversing on a different plane than the rest of us. It works very well, and while especially early on you have to wade through a lot of elliptical exposition to get there, Nolan absolutely delivers the goods on action spectacle and scope. Namely a sequence where The Protagonist drives a car "backwards" through traffic is brilliantly conceived and just astounding to think of how Nolan constructed this with his superb production team. Despite the sci-fi trappings that come with a film that's essentially about time traveling along different paths, Nolan keeps the action and the line jumping plausible and never steers into the hokey territory that we've seen so many films attempting to tackle time paradoxes stumble on.
The story, at least from what I gathered on a first viewing, is basically that a powerful arms dealer named Andrei Sator (Kenneth Branagh) finds the various pieces of the entropy algorithm and combines them with an alloy that allows him to both shape timelines and also implement the special metals and weapons that can work moving both forwards and backwards in time. This creates mass entropy and destruction, and eventually it's found that Sator intends to kill himself, thus destroying both timelines and thus the world. This is still something that doesn't entirely make sense to me, but I also grant that anytime you're doing a movie with "multiple timelines" or moving between past, present, future that you're instantly in a plot hole and you just have to sort of go with it. This wouldn't be as much of a problem if the story around this was more compelling. The Protagonist seeks to meet Sator and attempt to keep him from obtaining the algorithm in their timeline by having his disgruntled wife, Kat (Elizabeth Debicki), get to him and keep him from offing himself. The domestic drama just never really clicks, especially when set against the massive stakes of time travel, entropy, and espionage that comprise Tenet. So the powerful man will kill himself because the only thing he can't have is his wife, and that's worth destroying the world over? Even in the realm of absurd Bond villain plots, this is a bit ridiculous to convince general audiences. Helping The Protagonist and Kat is another secretive covert agent, Neil (Robert Pattinson), who offers much-needed comic relief and questioning of what the hell is happening acting as a sort of surrogate to the undoubtedly confused audience. Pattinson and Washington are excellent together, and their chemistry helps to sift through the first portion of the film that Nolan has designed as a sort of expositional and rules explaining endurance test before you can get to the action.
I'm not even entirely sure why a lot of major events occur in the film. I thought I had it figured out why The Protagonist and Neil storm a massive fortress of art, but then looking back on it I'm really not entirely sure why some of it mattered other than just to generate a lot of noise. And then of course there's always the paradoxical conundrums that come with a time traveling film of "well, why don't they just keep going back farther and farther to do this?" that creep up every time a challenge arises. As I've mentioned throughout my review, this is not the blockbuster that general audiences are going to revel in like they did with Inception or Dunkirk. Tenet is a challenging and at times wholly frustrating film, even in the hands of a master craftsman like Nolan. Even the climactic sequence, which involves a highly impressive siege where one group is fighting backwards in time and the other forwards in time, doesn't clear things up much for the audience and many will wonder aloud how the hell they got to this point and what the hell they're doing now that they're there. Even attempting to describe what Tenet is and how it unfolds is a beleaguered task. But in the end, despite this being perhaps my least favorite Christopher Nolan film, there's so much to admire. Maybe it's because I've been away from the thrill of the big screen for too long, but even then in this disgustingly CGI world of lazy filmmaking and lazier solutions to thrilling audiences, when you see a Nolan film you can't help but feel "yes, this is how you should make movies". Look, I get that few filmmakers in the world have the clout that Nolan does where he can use real ships, helicopters, cars, explosions. But Nolan is a director that refuses to compromise, refuses to take the easy route that so many other big budget directors do. That's a real firetruck that John David Washington is really hanging off of. I love that Nolan is choreographing his sequences in backwards and forwards thinking; that he's having stunt performers do their intricate combat scenes in two timelines. It's brilliant stuff that we've come to expect from Nolan, and that's what pushed Tenet slightly over the edge for me in terms of my positive rating. Tent has a host of frustrating elements, including the overly done sound mixing that makes picking up some of the dialogue near impossible which is a travesty in a movie where every bit of information is paramount to grappling with what's happening. But in the end, Tenet is the sort of blockbuster filmmaking that Christopher Nolan is the only one providing: smart, thrilling, bold, unique, original, and incredibly ambitious. Tenet has flaws, but I'll take a Tenet over almost all of the other summer fare any day.
8/10
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Sept 7, 2020 14:02:07 GMT -5
Tenet(9/3/2020)
Tenet very well not simply be “just a movie” to me. For the entirety of the COVID-19 pandemic the movie has been this sort of mythic thing that could be the salvation of theatrical exhibition and movie going as a whole. When almost every other movie around it balked and moved its release date it stood firm in its belief that it would open in July back when it still seemed there was hope that this mess would be solved by then. As that date approached and it was moved back but only by a few weeks and then another few weeks it began to seem less like a possible salvation to cinema and more as a possible death blow, something that could well get people killed by encouraging theaters to open too soon. I think I’m going to be writing a separate piece about my own thoughts about the ethics of opening this thing and my own decision to see it, but I don’t want to dwell on that too much here because I feel like Tenet does on some level deserve to be considered separate from these circumstances but on the other hand I’m not sure I can entirely separate this viewing experience form its context. Regardless a bit part of why the film’s eventual release has seemed like such a tantalizing prospect (while the possibility of other releases like Mulan and Unhinged have not) is what Christopher Nolan’s movies represent for the film community and in relation to theatrical distribution under better circumstances. Nolan’s films are events, almost always the most anticipated films of whatever year they come out, so for his latest to be in this position is kind of a rich irony.
The film follows a man known only as The Protagonist (John David Washington) who is with the CIA who finds himself captured by the enemy during a botched rescue/infiltration during a hostage situation in Ukraine. Under interrogation he takes a suicide pill which turns out not to really be a suicide pill and wakes up on a boat being debriefed by a man named Victor (Martin Donovan) who informs him that now that he’s “dead” they will be sending him on a mission reserved for those who have shown the utmost loyalty. This mission relates to certain objects that have appeared which seems to coming backwards through time from the future through a process called entropy inversion. This investigation sends him to India where he meets a contact named Neil (Robert Pattinson) who points him toward an arms dealer named Priya Singh (Dimple Kapadia) who in turn points them towards an Anglo-Russian oligarch named Andrei Sator (Kenneth Branagh) as a likely person at the center of this mystery and The Protagonist sets out to infiltrate his organization through making contact with his estranged wife Kat (Elizabeth Debicki).
Christopher Nolan has built his career making movies with complicated chronologies and rules that some people have found “confusing.” Personally I’ve never had much trouble with them. Memento seems pretty easy to follow as long as you pay attention to it and catch on to its forwards and backwards chronology, Inception works just fine as long as you jive with its time bending internal rules, and Dunkirk makes perfect sense if you bother to read the title cards that explain that its three sections run across different durations of time. And yet I ended up hearing people tell me they were “lost” in all three of these movies despite the clear trail of clues (and some would say “clunky exposition”) that they all provided and I’ve kind of scoffed at them. Well this time the joke was kind of on me because while I wouldn’t say I was completely confused by Tenet the movie was usually a few steps ahead of me and I had some trouble keeping up with it. The movie kind of combines the usual convulsion of spy movies (with their double crosses and secret agendas) with the usual convolutions of science fiction/time travel movies (with their rules and paradoxes), and it probably didn’t help that I needed to watch it while dealing with the distraction of trying to keep my mask from fogging up my glasses all while contemplating the morality of potentially aiding the spread of a deadly virus by being in the theater watching this thing.
I think part of the problem is that this movie often does not go out of its way to explain all of The Protagonists moves, which often feel a bit out of proportion to certain steps in the process and I often found myself thinking “wait, what are they even trying to do here” midway through certain set-pieces. Take an early scene where they attempt to break into an art repository in order to destroy a forged painting that the villain is using to blackmail his wife. We are given some perfunctory dialogue explaining the importance of this, but it’s never really driven home and by the time they’re actually breaking in getting to the actual painting seems to be the last thing on anyone’s mind and I don’t even remember them showing if they succeeded or failed at getting it. At other points the movie throws scenes at the audience that almost seem calibrated to leave them unsure what they’re watching until after their given some exposition later on. It is perhaps ironic that the movie is coming out at a point where it feels dangerous to even see the movie once because more than any other movie this feels like it was designed to be watched multiple times as this first viewing almost seemed like it was just there to prime me for when my future self goes through this experience over again, which is kind of meta in its own way.
Since seeing the movie I’ve read up on some of the plot machinations and think I caught more of it on first viewing than I had thought. On a second viewing I think that will be less of an issue. What I’m more hesitant about is the human side of the film so much as it exists. As his lack of name suggests, The Protagonist is a bit of a cypher in the film. We know next to nothing about his past and he has few defining characteristics aside from his persistence in completing his mission. John David Washington gives him some personality but otherwise there’s not really a whole lot there, but that at least is by design. The bigger problem here is that I never really found Andrei Sator to be a terribly compelling villain and was also not very into his twisted relationship with his wife. We’ve seen Kenneth Branagh play Russian oligarch’s before in Jack Ryan: Shadow Recruit and while that was a deeply forgettable movie I think that performance stood out to me a bit more and when we finally learned this character’s motivations for acting as the antagonist here I found it strange, unconvincing, and in some ways contradictory to his wife’s motivations earlier in the film. That having been said I didn’t actively dislike these characters either so much as I feel like they could have been more interesting than they were.
In a lot of ways I think the movie actually might have worked better if it had been less grounded than the usual Nolan film and had instead embraced its inner-James Bond and had been more of a straight up romp. The science in the film is basically made up nonsense and the villain is pretty much a cackling madman, why not just go all the way and give that villain a pet shark and a more colorful henchman while they’re at it. In many ways it’s probably the least flavorful and most purely Nolan movie that Nolan has made in a while. It lacks the historical realism he was going for in Dunkirk and the sentimentality he was experimenting with in Interstellar and the political commentary and literary allusion of The Dark Knight Rises or even the psychology of Inception. It’s probably the closest he’s come to making a pure formal exercise in puzzling his audience since Memento but even that movie was shooting for a bit more of an emotional core. The movie I’d probably most readily compare is probably actually Shane Carruth’s Primer, which this almost feels like a sort of big budget action movie riff on. In other ways the whole thing almost feels like Nolan indulging himself, not necessarily in a bad way, to see if he can take his usual trickery to its natural extreme and to just mess around with that while not having to worry too much about, like, historical accuracy or authentic astrophysics.
Now, I feel like I’ve focused way too much on the negative up to now, which is strange because I actually quite like this movie and if I rip on it a little it’s because I hold Nolan to a high standard and want to explore why this didn’t necessarily hit me as hard as something like Inception. Let me make it clear that there are definitely things about this movie that do deliver. There are some action scenes here that manage to use the time inversion thing in some really impressive ways, particularly a fight scene and a car chase which we end up seeing twice and making more sense of with additional information. There’s another scene, essentially an interrogation using the film’s central technology which did not make the slightest bit of sense to me while I was watching it but which I strongly suspect will work better for me on a re-watch. In fact I kind of have a lot of faith that a lot of scenes here were staged in a rather meticulous way which will be revealed to be pretty spectacular achievements when we examine them and see how well they come together and hold up to scrutiny… but that’s not necessarily something to appreciate on a first viewing.
In fact I’m in a generally strange position with Tenet because I think I like the movie a lot more than I liked my frustrating compromised first viewing experience. That probably sounds odd and I’m sure there are plenty of people who won’t have any patience with a movie that baffles them at first glance. It’s definitely a movie that Nolan made “for the fans” and won’t exactly win over the people who’ve complained in the past about his obsession with rules and his challenges writing compelling female characters and certainly won’t impress the people who’ve found his work cold and unemotional. It even reminds me a bit of his brother Johnathan Nolan’s TV show “Westworld” in that it almost seems to exist as much for people to deconstruct on Reddit as it does to simply be watched. I’d say it’s one of his lesser works and there are limits to how much of a benefit of a doubt I can give it under the assumption I will more firmly grasp it on future viewings. But I also think it’s one of the year’s best movies (albeit sort of by default) despite whatever misgivings I might have. I guess even when Nolan is kind of missing the forest for the trees he’s still better than most of his peers.
**** out of Five
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Deexan
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Post by Deexan on Sept 11, 2020 12:06:06 GMT -5
He's done it again.
Couple thoughts:
Aaron Taylor-Johnson's character was clearly meant for tom hardy.
Secondly, I feeling this is gonna be Michael Caine's final nolan film, as the Protagonist's final words to him were "Goodbye, Sir Michael.", or "Thank you, Sir Michael." One of the two. A nice send off either way.
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donny
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Post by donny on Sept 11, 2020 12:50:56 GMT -5
Still shocked this is a prequel to Bill and Ted 3. What a reveal.
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Deexan
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Post by Deexan on Sept 11, 2020 13:28:37 GMT -5
Still shocked this is a prequel to Bill and Ted 3. What a reveal.
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frankyt
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Post by frankyt on Sept 18, 2020 7:35:05 GMT -5
What a fun Dolby experience, it's been said but damn going back to the movies was a blast.
I'll have to let this one marinate a bit and probably see it again, but this is very much lower tier nolan if you ask me.
Can see why he pushed for it during the pandemic though, the masks in theater were like cosplay for the movie.
Review later but it was a meh for me as credits rolled.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Sept 18, 2020 16:45:04 GMT -5
It sucked.
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Post by frankyt on Sept 18, 2020 16:53:32 GMT -5
I lean more towards neverending. I'm trying to convince myself that it wasn't so bad but... I didn't love it. The set pieces were pretty cool (the opening scene and the chase scene heist come to mind first), I liked the music, hated protagonist (think denzel's kid is a terrible actor, not sure why they keep giving him leading roles), thought brannagh coulda been cast with someone better. And were we supposed to care about the girl? And Aaron taylor johnson?
I'll watch it again and I didn't hate it, but this was certainly a disappointment but didn't even bother me so much since being back at the movies was fucking great.
Bought snacks and a drink... Had my mask off most of the time (eating delicious snacks of course) and how hard was it getting your popcorn and not immidiately shoveling it into your face hole on the way to the theater?
Only about 10 people in the theater. Felt quite secure.
Bad boys reigns king of 2020 though and it ain't even close.
5ish/10
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1godzillafan
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Post by 1godzillafan on Sept 18, 2020 17:17:22 GMT -5
I thought it was good enough. But if someone were to ask me if it was good enough to break one's own strict quarantine to see in a theater, I'd respond "nahp" without hesitation.
I don't think that's the reaction Warner and Nolan were when they released this thing so soon after theaters reopened.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Sept 18, 2020 17:19:20 GMT -5
I've been saying this since 2012 and only Doomsday pays attention to me. Nolan's ego is out of control. He needs a flop real bad. Dude is slowly morphing into George Lucas. The premise of this movie didn't match with whatever globe trotting nonsense Nolan wanted to execute. This should have been a character-driven sci-fi thriller. Instead, it's some weird time travel spy movie with an hilariously bad villain and Nolan's "dead wife" trope at its most cringy. Did no one challenge Nolan from pre-production to production to post production? Did no one confront him and say, "dude, this is stupid"? The fact Tenet didn't "rescue cinema" will hopefully humble him. Hopefully.
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Deexan
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Post by Deexan on Sept 19, 2020 7:45:50 GMT -5
So it's been pretty much confirmed that "Neil" is the kid.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Sept 19, 2020 8:09:21 GMT -5
I've been saying this since 2012 and only Doomsday pays attention to me. Probably a sign.
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IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Sept 19, 2020 8:54:41 GMT -5
Since you Americans finally get it, I'll unredact my original review. So I went to the theater for the first time in 7 months... Tenet is a movie that lost me, and then won me back. You could say I went two opposite directions on it. Eh? Ehhhh? wink wink The first act of Tenet has a lot of problems, and this is what ultimately holds it back from being a great movie. I was quite surprised at the lack of coherency from Nolan and crew. The world-building was weak and the plot was convoluted, jumping from place to place, person to person, without giving us any time to let any of it sink in. There are a few parts to blame here, I think. First is the editing. Scene transitions were jumpy and awkward. Second was the lack in strength in the performances of the secondary actors and the dialogue and direction they are given with their lines. I am thinking specifically of the scientist scene, where the main premise of the whole film is presented. Its delivered so non-nonchalantly that its jarring. Um, things are moving backwards in time, show some awe and wonder! Just a little bit! And finally the sound mixing; some voices are really muffled and the background music is distracting. Above all else, I really wish the character introductions were better. For example, Robert Patterson's character, who is a big deal in the movie, just shows up without much explanation of who he is, how the main character knows him, or why we should care about him. But then,around the halfway mark, the movie started winning me over. The star of the show here is the action set pieces. They are expertly filmed, inventive, and engaging. I especially liked the heist of the transport truck and the ensuing car chase. When the main character(I cannot remember his name honestly)decides to invert himself, this is where the movie really gets good and things start falling into place. It reminds me of two films: Back to the Future 2 with the idea of revisiting past events, and Mad Max Fury Road with the idea of returning back the way you came. These are both great ideas and done so with a lot of innovation here. I will admit that I didn't fully understand how things happened at the end of the movie, especially with the Neil character . Perhaps a second viewing will clear a lot of things up if I go in with the right vantage to figure things out. I really wish that Nolan had set up the concept, characters, and overall movie better. But it turned into a wild, imaginative action film that got the heart pumping and brain working. 7/10
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IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Sept 19, 2020 8:56:49 GMT -5
I wish we have blackout text instead of those spoiler tabs. My original joke post would have been more effective.
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Deexan
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Post by Deexan on Sept 19, 2020 9:53:44 GMT -5
I wish we have blackout text instead of those spoiler tabs. My original joke post would have been more effective. It would have been equally as ineffective.
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Deexan
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Post by Deexan on Sept 19, 2020 9:54:48 GMT -5
So it's been pretty much confirmed that "Neil" is the kid. What do you think about this bombshell, IanTheCool?
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