Dracula
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Post by Dracula on May 14, 2020 21:26:34 GMT -5
I'd probably stand up for Insurrection... it's not terribly cinematic and also isn't brilliant science fiction or anything but as a big budget episode of the show it works for me. Sort of the Star Trek Beyond/Search for Spock of the TNG movies. Generations kind of works for me in the same way. Nemesis is kind of feast or famine; stretches of it are very well done but other parts are really not good.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on May 14, 2020 21:39:55 GMT -5
Hmm, I liked First Contact.
Insurrection has the Star Frek spirit more than most TNG movies, but at that point they'd committed to making movie/CBS All Access a totally different crew than the show.
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Post by Wyldstaar on May 14, 2020 21:52:16 GMT -5
Hmm, I liked First Contact. Insurrection has the Star Frek spirit more than most TNG movies, but at that point they'd committed to making movie/CBS All Access a totally different crew than the show. Insurrection has zero spirit of TNG in it. In fact, it's the exact opposite of TNG. The story is essentially stolen entirely from an episode of TNG, except in the episode, Picard and the crew of the Enterprise do the exact opposite of what they do in the movie. There is no insurrection by anyone except Wesley Crusher. They've been ordered by Starfleet to remove people from a planet due to a treaty they've signed with another race, which the people of that world had zero say in. Picard had every intention of following his orders to remove them, by beaming them out against their will if necessary. Wesley is the only person who takes issue with these orders, and Picard was furious with him for disobeying and notifying the denizens of the planet that Picard intended to forcibly remove them. At no point does Picard decide that Starfleet is wrong to order him to do this. Even in the end, when Picard is force by circumstance to relent, he's not happy about it.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on May 14, 2020 21:56:02 GMT -5
That sounds familiar.
I'm going off a memory of watching the move 15+ years ago, and will defer to you. I probably confused them in my head.
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Post by Wyldstaar on May 14, 2020 23:46:29 GMT -5
That sounds familiar. I'm going off a memory of watching the move 15+ years ago, and will defer to you. I probably confused them in my head. Premise-wise, they're incredibly easy to confuse. The main reason I remember the episode is because that was Wesley's last.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on May 15, 2020 16:42:11 GMT -5
Neverending Motion Picture has a lot of merit to it to be sure. It's probably the most well photographed and some of its moments are pretty incredible to watch. They're clearly 2001: A Space Odyssey inspired, but that's certainly not a bad thing. But it also just doesn't fit with the rest of the films. Robert Wise made a lot of good movies in his career, but he feels like a director-for-hire with Motion Picture and is more enamored with spectacle than story and characters. The central storyline is pretty bland, and while you're right that it fits the mold of the show, the budget and added attention to special effects and space grandeur proves they weren't looking to just make an expensive episode, so the storyline being as generic as it is really just doesn't cut it. Motion Picture isn't bad. The best? No way in hell.
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1godzillafan
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Post by 1godzillafan on May 15, 2020 16:49:52 GMT -5
I think an argument can be made that Wise is probably the best director that ever touched a Star Trek movie, even if he was a director for hire. A lot of the visuals in The Motion Picture are striking as hell. Too bad it's a movie about people staring out of windows for minutes at a time.
Meyer is probably second, but he seemed more of an actor's director. If Star Trek could ever get someone who could do both visuals and acting down pat with a really good script, then watch the fuck out.
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Post by SnoBorderZero on May 15, 2020 16:52:28 GMT -5
Tough to argue with that, Wise directed some great films. The Day the Earth Stood Still and West Side Story alone are better credits than anyone else who touched the series.
And yeah I'd say Meyer. Honestly I've only seen the two Star Trek films he did and Time After Time, which was a fun romp but nothing more. Figured he'd have a bigger career since I like all three of those films.
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Post by PhantomKnight on Jun 23, 2020 14:06:20 GMT -5
So, just to be clear, The Best of Both Worlds Parts 1 and 2 are the episodes I really need to watch before First Contact?
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Post by 1godzillafan on Jun 23, 2020 14:10:32 GMT -5
So, just to be clear, The Best of Both Worlds Parts 1 and 2 are the episodes I really need to watch before First Contact? They're the most relevant, yes. The Borg introduction is Q Who? but I wouldn't call that required viewing. The Locutus backstory should suffice. Plus it's just a damn good two parter.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Jun 23, 2020 19:47:30 GMT -5
So, just to be clear, The Best of Both Worlds Parts 1 and 2 are the episodes I really need to watch before First Contact? Yeah. If you want more the episode "I, Borg" would also be edifying, but is not a required prerequisite.
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Post by 1godzillafan on Jun 23, 2020 20:10:56 GMT -5
The last TNG Borg story is the Descent two-parter which continues I Borg, but those three episodes kind of go in their own direction and don't have much relation to First Contact.
The Borg Queen is in a few episodes of Voyager though (Alice Krige only reprises her in Endgame). But...I hesitate to recommend much of anything from Voyager. The Regeneration episode of Enterprise is kind of fun though, if a little continuity breaking.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Jun 23, 2020 21:10:10 GMT -5
The last TNG Borg story is the Descent two-parter which continues I Borg, but those three episodes kind of go in their own direction and don't have much relation to First Contact. The Borg Queen is in a few episodes of Voyager though (Alice Krige only reprises her in Endgame). But...I hesitate to recommend much of anything from Voyager. The Regeneration episode of Enterprise is kind of fun though, if a little continuity breaking. I like select parts of Voyager, but would agree that as a whole it's not worth getting into. Like Enterprise - at its best, it's better than a lot of nu-Trek (JJ Abrams, Discovery, and Picard). At its worst, it's way way worse.
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Post by Neverending on Jun 23, 2020 21:12:03 GMT -5
Are y’all shitting on Voyager? The Jeri Ryan Show.
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Post by 1godzillafan on Jun 23, 2020 21:31:53 GMT -5
The last TNG Borg story is the Descent two-parter which continues I Borg, but those three episodes kind of go in their own direction and don't have much relation to First Contact. The Borg Queen is in a few episodes of Voyager though (Alice Krige only reprises her in Endgame). But...I hesitate to recommend much of anything from Voyager. The Regeneration episode of Enterprise is kind of fun though, if a little continuity breaking. I like select parts of Voyager, but would agree that as a whole it's not worth getting into. Like Enterprise - at its best, it's better than a lot of nu-Trek (JJ Abrams, Discovery, and Picard). At its worst, it's way way worse. I think Enterprise needs more credit for it's high points than most people give it. Like, there are some DAMN good episodes of that show (I consider Cogenetor and Twilight top tier Star Trek). Probably more than Voyager, and considering it had half the episodes, that's something. And that fourth season was just the best Star Trek has been since Deep Space Nine. I mean, that first season is pretty rough but, outside of the original series, what first season of a Trek show wasn't rocky? Once you get to Minefield, the show smooths out quite nicely.
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Post by 1godzillafan on Jun 23, 2020 21:58:59 GMT -5
Disclaimer on my stance on Enterprise: It was the Trek show that was airing when I was getting into Trek, so I do admittedly have a nostalgic bias, and I kinda love it as much as I love TNG.
Other people tear that show a new one, but I just can't not like it no matter how hard I try to understand their stance.
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Post by Wyldstaar on Jun 23, 2020 22:23:30 GMT -5
Disclaimer on my stance on Enterprise: It was the Trek show that was airing when I was getting into Trek, so I do admittedly have a nostalgic bias, and I kinda love it as much as I love TNG. Other people tear that show a new one, but I just can't not like it no matter how hard I try to understand their stance. I remember enjoying it when it was airing, but I've never gone back to rewatch the series. I mostly recall feeling that the show was mostly good, but was wasting it's potential for greatness. I felt the same way about Voyager. Loads of squandered potential with Voyager.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Jun 23, 2020 22:29:14 GMT -5
I watched most of it when airing, and am afraid to revisit a lot of it. I have an everlasting fondness for Scott Bakula from Quantum Leap that has probably given me rose tinted glasses.
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1godzillafan
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Post by 1godzillafan on Jun 23, 2020 22:34:29 GMT -5
I watched most of it when airing, and am afraid to revisit a lot of it. I have an everlasting fondness for Scott Bakula from Quantum Leap that has probably given me rose tinted glasses. Scott Bakula is pretty great. Every once in a while I catch him on one of those NCIS shows and watch it for fifteen minutes before I remember I don't give a damn about NCIS. And I have the whole series of Quantum Leap on blu-ray. Great show. Especially when he was a monkey and ran around judo kicking people in a diaper.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Jun 24, 2020 6:03:13 GMT -5
I like select parts of Voyager, but would agree that as a whole it's not worth getting into. Like Enterprise - at its best, it's better than a lot of nu-Trek (JJ Abrams, Discovery, and Picard). At its worst, it's way way worse. I think Enterprise needs more credit for it's high points than most people give it. Like, there are some DAMN good episodes of that show (I consider Cogenetor and Twilight top tier Star Trek). Probably more than Voyager, and considering it had half the episodes, that's something. And that fourth season was just the best Star Trek has been since Deep Space Nine. I mean, that first season is pretty rough but, outside of the original series, what first season of a Trek show wasn't rocky? Once you get to Minefield, the show smooths out quite nicely. The show would be about 150% better remembered if not for that theme song.
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Post by Neverending on Jun 24, 2020 6:51:52 GMT -5
Knowing 1godzillafan, he likes the show because of the theme song.
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1godzillafan
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Post by 1godzillafan on Jun 24, 2020 9:20:47 GMT -5
The theme song sticks out like a sore thumb, but I never hated it. It was just this really weird thing they tried and that resulted in "But why?"
It does blow that every Trek show has a memorable instrumental opening except Enterprise (even the closing instrumental sucks). Enterprise's wound up memorable for the wrong reasons.
I like the imagery of the opening though.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Jun 24, 2020 9:34:30 GMT -5
The theme song sticks out like a sore thumb, but I never hated it. It was just this really weird thing they tried and that resulted in "But why?" For whatever reason the executives at UPN thought that having a piece of shit adult contemporary song by a dime store Bryan Adams would make people want to watch Star Trek more. Who'd have thought that would be a bad call?
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Post by 1godzillafan on Jun 24, 2020 9:46:14 GMT -5
The theme song sticks out like a sore thumb, but I never hated it. It was just this really weird thing they tried and that resulted in "But why?" For whatever reason the executives at UPN thought that having a piece of shit adult contemporary song by a dime store Bryan Adams would make people want to watch Star Trek more. Who'd have thought that would be a bad call? From my understanding, UPN had a lot of shit things they were trying to force on the show, to the point it's a miracle Enterprise wound up being watchable at all. The interviews with Rick Berman and Brannon Braga on the blu-ray have pretty juicy accounts of how the series was being screwed over. I always really liked that story were UPN wanted to feature a hot up-and-coming band on the series every week, and Braga's like "Do you even watch our show? How the hell are we supposed to do that?" They told him "You can just put them in that bar place." and Braga's like "The mess hall?" "Yeah!" "We're in space! Where are these bands coming from?" "Nobody will care." My impression is that UPN wanted the audience that came with Star Trek, but they didn't want to be associated with Star Trek. They were really aggressively branding itself toward the youth market when Enterprise was on-air. The fact that Enterprise is as adult as it is and feels like Star Trek at all is something of a victory.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Jun 24, 2020 9:57:23 GMT -5
For whatever reason the executives at UPN thought that having a piece of shit adult contemporary song by a dime store Bryan Adams would make people want to watch Star Trek more. Who'd have thought that would be a bad call? From my understanding, UPN had a lot of shit things they were trying to force on the show, to the point it's a miracle Enterprise wound up being watchable at all. The interviews with Rick Berman and Brannon Braga on the blu-ray have pretty juicy accounts of how the series was being screwed over. I always really liked that story were UPN wanted to feature a hot up-and-coming band on the series every week, and Braga's like "Do you even watch our show? How the hell are we supposed to do that?" They told him "You can just put them in that bar place." and Braga's like "The mess hall?" "Yeah!" "We're in space! Where are these bands coming from?" "Nobody will care." My impression is that UPN wanted the audience that came with Star Trek, but they didn't want to be associated with Star Trek. They were really aggressively branding itself toward the youth market when Enterprise was on-air. The fact that Enterprise is as adult as it is and feels like Star Trek at all is something of a victory. Crazy thing is... they seem to have more or less gotten what they wanted with the DC shows they make now like Arrow and The Flash. I guess they wanted to make Star Trek: Smallville, but didn't really bargain for the fact that Trek needs to follow continuity and can't just re-invent itself a million times like Superheros can.
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