PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Sept 22, 2020 15:56:55 GMT -5
I always saw that as Marcus only doing so in order to use Kirk as a scapegoat to start the war with the Klingons Marcus wanted in the first place. He figured he could use Kirk's bloodlust over Pike's death to his advantage without getting his own hands dirty, and the only way to do it was to reinstate Kirk as Captain. Once Kirk decided not to torpedo Khan/Kronos, it fucked up Marcus's plan and he had to intervene.
Makes perfect sense to me.
The storyline didn't need to demote him in the first place. It's an incomplete idea in a pile of incomplete ideas. I'll admit, it was a half-baked way of "teaching him humility," but I don't care, cause the movie still entertained me so much. |
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Post by PG Cooper on Sept 22, 2020 16:34:47 GMT -5
Remember how Into Darkness was all about Kirk maturing from a young hot head to a responsible leader after Star Trek 09 was about Kirk maturing from a young hot head to a responsible leader?
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1godzillafan
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Post by 1godzillafan on Sept 22, 2020 16:46:01 GMT -5
Remember when this thread was about things that were fun to talk shit about like Sliders and Smallville? Those were good times.
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Sept 23, 2020 11:27:33 GMT -5
Let's see if I win anyone back.
13. Star Trek V: The Final Frontier
12. Star Trek: Insurrection
11. Star Trek: Nemesis
10. Star Trek: Generations
9. Star Trek: The Motion Picture
8. Star Trek Beyond
7. Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
6. Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home 5. Star Trek Into Darkness
4. Star Trek: First Contact (1996)
This film has a very cinematic quality that definitely works in its favor, as well as a story that's not AS dependent on having seen any of the show beforehand. Yes, watching The Best of Both Worlds helps get you up to speed on The Borg and Picard's history with them, but I also think the plot would still work well enough, but admittedly not to the desired degree. Regardless, I think First Contact also benefits from the fact that by now, the TNG crew feels well-established enough for a relative noob like me to have a working understanding of who everybody is beyond their names and ranks. I think that ties back into how the story works, because everybody's purpose within it is clear, and that in turn allows for each person's signature traits to shine through. Picard's resistance up on the Enterprise against a contingent of Borgs who have infiltrated the ship is tense and exciting while Riker and his crew on Earth attempting to help the scientist (James Cromwell in a good performance) is lighter but just as engaging while also tapping on some interesting ideas. Also quite engaging Is Data's storyline in this movie, as he becomes the prisoner of the Borg Queen and has to confront difficult questions of his humanity, however much he has. It's all a tasty cocktail and while some of the cuts back and forth feel a little jarring, it's always an entertaining blend.
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1godzillafan
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Post by 1godzillafan on Sept 23, 2020 11:40:56 GMT -5
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Sept 24, 2020 10:27:09 GMT -5
13. Star Trek V: The Final Frontier 12. Star Trek: Insurrection 11. Star Trek: Nemesis 10. Star Trek: Generations 9. Star Trek: The Motion Picture 8. Star Trek Beyond 7. Star Trek III: The Search for Spock 6. Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home 5. Star Trek Into Darkness 4. Star Trek: First Contact
3. Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country (1991)
You might be noticing how a lot of my favorite Star Trek movies have more action/adventure-oriented plots, and the same holds true for Undiscovered Country. Not only is it full of tension and intrigue, as well as some core ideals of Star Trek, it doesn't feel too unnecessarily far-removed from the traditional Star Trek tone. Nicholas Meyer, of Wrath of Khan fame, returns to the director's chair here and he brings back with him the balance between adventurous escapism and Gene Rodenberry's vision that made that film so good in the first place. He also co-wrote the script. The plot feels pretty tightly constructed and is always engaging, providing both excitement and intrigue. Obviously, there's a central mystery as to who pulled off the assassination and while it's not difficult to spot one of the main conspirators early on, the movie always plays out in a way that keeps your attention. There's also a healthy dose of action mixed in, but never too much. And the characters are just as entertaining as always.
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1godzillafan
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Post by 1godzillafan on Sept 24, 2020 10:33:17 GMT -5
Can't decide. Pick one.   |
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Sept 24, 2020 10:36:39 GMT -5
I'll take both.
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Post by PG Cooper on Sept 24, 2020 12:58:10 GMT -5
I love Undiscovered Country. Middle is rough but the first and last acts are amazing.
"They're dying."
"Let them die."
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Sept 24, 2020 13:05:16 GMT -5
Honestly, the whole movie was pretty compelling to me. |
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Post by 1godzillafan on Sept 24, 2020 13:15:03 GMT -5
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Post by PhantomKnight on Sept 25, 2020 11:10:20 GMT -5
Let's just finish this.
13. Star Trek V: The Final Frontier
12. Star Trek: Insurrection
11. Star Trek: Nemesis
10. Star Trek: Generations
9. Star Trek: The Motion Picture
8. Star Trek Beyond
7. Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
6. Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
5. Star Trek Into Darkness
4. Star Trek: First Contact 3. Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
2. Star Trek (2009)
Admit it, for a minute there you thought I was going to put this at number 1, didn't you? Well, for a minute there, so did I.
I'm starting to feel like a broken record every time I talk about Star Trek '09, but my thoughts and feelings on the movie remain intact, even after having seen the rest of the films, aka the ones considered to be more "pure Star Trek." Look, I can appreciate the ideals and approach to storytelling that the franchise had up before this point; yeah, those led to some quality movies. But I guess JJ Abrams' reboot will always hold a special place in my heart because a. it managed to present its rebooted timeline and characters in a really compelling and entertaining way and b. because it was my first experience with anything Star Trek-related. And I still recall that feeling I had of being impressed that even in spite of that, it was nonetheless working for me, and quite well at that. So, yes, I see how one could call Star Trek '09 more juvenile and simplistic compared to what fans are used to from this franchise. But you know what, this movie still works just as well for me as it did back in 2009.
What's so bad about enjoying both versions of Star Trek?
1. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (1982)
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan is one of those sequels with the reputation of being better than the original, and it's hard to argue against that. In fact, I almost wish this could've been the film Star Trek made its cinematic debut with instead of The Motion Picture, because it basically does everything I wish The Motion Picture would've done. The Wrath of Khan has a tighter and more balanced screenplay, an interesting villain, a pretty compelling plot and a better grasp on its characters. In fact, Wrath of Khan feels more like Star Trek's response to Star Wars, but at the same time, still maintains what seem to be the core elements of what make Star Trek, well, Star Trek. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan is very much an improvement over The Motion Picture and some clear evidence as to why this franchise has endured for so long.
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1godzillafan
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Post by 1godzillafan on Sept 25, 2020 11:37:07 GMT -5
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Post by PG Cooper on Sept 25, 2020 11:45:45 GMT -5
The right film landed at number one. It's cliche and arguments can be made for movies like I or VI being smarter, but Wrath of Khan really is great.
Kudos on an interesting ranking. Which I guess sounds like a backhanded compliment but it did make this thread more suspenseful.
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Post by 1godzillafan on Sept 25, 2020 12:07:32 GMT -5
We shall celebrate the end of the list with Neverending's favorite Trek theme. |
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Post by PhantomKnight on Sept 25, 2020 12:37:42 GMT -5
Kudos on an interesting ranking. Which I guess sounds like a backhanded compliment but it did make this thread more suspenseful. Yeah, well, I really had to be honest rather than "safe" here. Being safe with these would've been disingenuous and frankly boring. So, I'm glad to have provided you with some suspense. |
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Post by Neverending on Sept 25, 2020 13:13:14 GMT -5
it did make this thread more suspenseful. Suspenseful is not the word I'd use. |
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Post by 1godzillafan on Sept 25, 2020 13:15:20 GMT -5
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Post by PhantomKnight on Sept 25, 2020 13:19:58 GMT -5
I'll gladly pass that one off to you. |
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Post by 1godzillafan on Sept 25, 2020 13:24:38 GMT -5
I'll gladly pass that one off to you. TOS's City on the Edge of Forever is the best. Voyager's Threshold is the worst. Random episodes in between. |
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Post by PhantomKnight on Sept 25, 2020 13:26:50 GMT -5
Good enough for me.
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Post by Neverending on Sept 25, 2020 13:36:55 GMT -5
Back in high school I worked at Eckerd (R.I.P.) and I'd kill time raiding the magazine section, in particular Cinescape (R.I.P.) and Wizard. I don't know who or what had a Star Trek issue and I think they attempted to do an episode ranking. It might have been a Top 100 list. I don't know. Anyway, I think Edge of Forever (was that the Nazi one?) and Picard's flute episode were ranked as the best. |
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Post by 1godzillafan on Sept 25, 2020 15:44:27 GMT -5
Back in high school I worked at Eckerd (R.I.P.) and I'd kill time raiding the magazine section, in particular Cinescape (R.I.P.) and Wizard. I don't know who or what had a Star Trek issue and I think they attempted to do an episode ranking. It might have been a Top 100 list. I don't know. Anyway, I think Edge of Forever (was that the Nazi one?) and Picard's flute episode were ranked as the best. I've owed The Inner Light a rewatch for a good long while. I don't think I've seen it since watching reruns of TNG on TNN with that stupid squished picture and that bar at the bottom of the screen. That network was a crime against nature. I don't remember the episode standing out at the time, but Trekkies all seem to adore it, so I might have to go back with adult eyes. But I've been saving that for a complete TNG beginning to end rewatch. I would have done that like a decade ago, but then they decided to start remastering the show and I was like "Dayyyyy-ummmmmmm. I'll wait for those." For Trek's 50th I watched the entire TOS, and thought maybe I'd do TNG the following year, and Deep Space Nine the year after, and so on. Didn't work out that way. Going off the top of my head, standouts are: TOS - City on the Edge of Forever is the big must see. I also remember really liking The Empath, but I never hear anyone really bring it up. TAS - Yesteryear (most would say that's the only one) TNG - Cause and Effect is the one I loved way back when. That sick teaser of "ALL HANDS ABANDON SHIP!" then the Enterprise explodes. Great episode. Yesterday's Enterprise is pretty good, as is Best of Both Worlds. Q episodes are usually good for a laugh. DS9 - This probably the lame choice, but Trials and Tribble-Ations is so well done that I can't help but adore it. Also that episode where Sisko tricks the Romulans into joining the Dominion War is just some straight up powerhouse drama. Voyager - This is probably the only one where I haven't seen at least most of the series. I've seen maybe half of it, and nothing is really memorable (except for Threshold, which stands out for the wrong reasons). There was a two-parter with Sarah Silverman that I remember being okay. And episodes focusing on the Doctor were usually tolerable. Enterprise - I really, really love Cogenetor. It's not one people seem to notice, but that one always hits me right in the gut. Twilight is a really well done episode. The third season finale Zero Hour is nonstop action, and if it weren't for that awful tacked on cliffhanger it would have been perfect. Most of the fourth season is pretty great, with In a Mirror Darkly being a standout. Discovery, Picard, and Lower Decks probably need to finish their runs before anything definitive can be said about them (I'm caught up on all but Picard). Discovery had a pretty fun episode in the first season that's a lot like Cause and Effect where Harry Mudd is reversing time to assassinate Lorca over and over again. I liked that one. I thought the Seven of Nine episode of Picard was pretty great, and the Lower Decks where Mariner gets promoted to Lieutenant is probably the best one so far. |
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Post by Neverending on Dec 6, 2022 0:55:50 GMT -5
R.I.P. Kirstie Alley  |
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