PG Cooper
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And those who tasted the bite of his sword named him...The DOOM Slayer
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Post by PG Cooper on Nov 5, 2015 12:05:15 GMT -5
I loved Skyfall back in 2012, but my opinion of that film has dropped considerably with rewatches and reflection. I still really like parts of the film. It's gorgeously shot and there are some really awesome action scenes, but the plot is really thinly held together, the film blatantly steals from Batman Begins/The Dark Knight, and the filmmakers tried way too hard to make Silva threatening, to the point where he's ridiculous as a character. As for the Goldfinger debate, we should save that for one it pops up in Dracula's Top 100. It's so lonely over here sometimes. Sigh...
We'll always have Man of Steel. |
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Nov 5, 2015 12:09:04 GMT -5
I still think Skyfall is the 3rd best Bond ever, so yeah, I'm with ya.
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Nov 5, 2015 12:31:11 GMT -5
I loved Skyfall back in 2012, but my opinion of that film has dropped considerably with rewatches and reflection. I still really like parts of the film. It's gorgeously shot and there are some really awesome action scenes, but the plot is really thinly held together, the film blatantly steals from Batman Begins/The Dark Knight, and the filmmakers tried way too hard to make Silva threatening, to the point where he's ridiculous as a character. As for the Goldfinger debate, we should save that for one it pops up in Dracula's Top 100. If Doomsday had REAL balls, he would admit that Quantum of Solace is better than Skyfall. But that would just be an incorrect statement. |
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Post by Neverending on Nov 5, 2015 13:45:10 GMT -5
DANIEL CRAIG RE-ASSIGNEDCASINO ROYALE (2006) Ah, to be old. I remember watching Quentin Tarantino on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno, when he was promoting the Kill Bill movies, and saying that he would LOVE to make a James Bond film if it's Casino Royale and it starred Pierce Brosnan. Fast-forward a year later, maybe two, and it's announced that EON Productions is indeed making Casino Royale but with Martin Campbell in the director's chair and the guy from Layer Cake as James Bond. The internet didn't know where to direct their emotions. Martin Campbell made GoldenEye, the best James Bond movie since the 1960's, but the guy from Layer Cake is ugly and blonde. The internet was not gonna take this quietly and immediately launched CraigIsNotBond websites. That whole time I just laid back and thought to myself, "ah, to be old. I remember when people didn't want Michael Keaton to be Batman. I'll give this Layer Cake guy a chance." Ultimately, I was in the right side of history because Daniel Craig was awesome and Casino Royale was even more awesome. In fact, it was TOO awesome. Nine years later and three sequels later and Daniel Craig still hasn't lived up to the standards of Casino Royale. Funny. The same thing happened to Pierce Brosnan. Let's just call this the Martin Campbell curse. In Casino Royale we, sort of, get a reboot that tells the story of James Bond's first mission as a double-0 agent. His task is simple. Win a card game against a guy who's using terrorist money to gamble. It's... kind of silly... and the villain is even sillier. But none of that really matters because the action scenes are spectacular, the cinematography and locations have the beauty you expect from a James Bond film, and Eve Green is awesome as the love interest who may be hiding a dark secret. If you're a fan or not doesn't matter. Casino Royale can be enjoyed by everyone. AQUANTUM OF SOLACE (2008) I've never understood the hatred for Quantum of Solace. It's not better than Casino Royale? So what? This isn't a sequel. It's the 22nd installment in a 46 year old franchise. Did you really expect each film to be better than the last? That's unreasonable. The editing is too fast-paced? I guess? But it doesn't bother me. The plot is dumb? Did you see Casino Royale... or any James Bond movie... ever? As someone who grew up in the 1990's with Pierce Brosnan and the classics on TV, Quantum of Solace is what I expect from this series. It's action-packed. There's an eccentric villain with an evil scheme that involves ruining a country or two. James Bond has sex with a woman who gets murdered at some point. M gets mad at James Bond and almost suspends him at one point. The ending is at an isolated location and there's gunfire and explosions. And best of all, the film clocks in at under 2 hours. What is there to hate? This is all standard stuff. Oh, wait. That's the problem. You DON'T want the standard stuff. You want something different? So you're saying that Quantum of Solace taking place EXACTLY where Casino Royale ended isn't different? You're also saying that the Latin American locations, with its grit and poverty, aren't different than the beautiful locations from Europe, Asia and the Caribbean that are the norm for this franchise? Are you also saying that the incredible opera scene isn't something different either? Come on... let's be real. Quantum of Solace is a good James Bond movie. It gives fans what the want, it gives general audiences something different to chew on, and it's an appropriate follow-up to Casino Royale. If you want to bitch about something, go bitch about Moonraker or Die Another Day or something else. Quantum of Solace is fine. Leave it alone. B-SKYFALL (2012) Like everyone, I got caught up in the hype of James Bond's 50th anniversary. So much so that I actually said Skyfall is one of the best James Bond movies. Oh, boy. What was I thinking? Skyfall isn't even better than Quantum of Solace. Don't believe me? Try watching Skyfall without using your phone or looking at the time. You can AT LEAST watch Quantum of Solace from beginning to end and be entertained. Skyfall is long and boring and stupid. For staters, the pre-title scene is awful. It's easily one of the worst in the franchise. Why the fuck is M micro-managing James Bond? It's James Bond. Leave him the fuck alone. And why is Moneypenny shooting James Bond? Seriously, Moneypenny. What the fuck is wrong with you? And more importantly, WHY are they stealing the plot from Mission: Impossible? Moving on... what the fuck happened to Daniel Craig? He was ugly as fuck in Casino Royale and his penis had no business being near Eva Green, but at least he was YOUNG-ish. Here, he looks 60. He makes Roger Moore look good. Daniel Craig looks so damn old that the movie has to waste our time explaining that James Bond is old and has no business being in the field. That would be fine if this was movie #7, but this is movie #3. If Roger Moore, in his 50's, could fuck Tanya Roberts and no one raised an eyebrow, I think we can give Daniel Craig the same courtesy. He looks old. Whatever. We'll get a new James Bond eventually. Let's just march on. Okay. So... why isn't there an actual Bond girl in this movie? There's that chick who gets killed so James Bond could say a funny line and... that's it. Is Judi Dench supposed to be the Bond girl? Is that what's going on? Did they sacrifice Strawberry Fields for this? And where's Felix Leiter during all this? Or Jack Wade? Or that fat Russian guy from the Harry Potter movies? Or Pierce Brosnan? Anyway, another MAJOR question. Why do they rip-off The Dark Knight? Isn't it bad enough that they rip-off Mission: Impossible? Did they REALLY need to rip-off The Dark Knight? How much shit can this movie be? But, it's not all bad. The opening credits are awesome. I still love the Adele song. Roger Deakins has his moments behind the camera. Javier Bardem is AWESOME as the villain. The ending, in Skyfall, is awesome. So... yeah... Skyfall is a pile of shit with pebbles of gold on top. It's the worst Daniel Craig movie, but at least it's not Moonraker. Right? C-
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Nov 5, 2015 14:03:20 GMT -5
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Nov 5, 2015 14:05:41 GMT -5
You are so, so wrong about Skyfall. Who the fuck cares how old he looks in the film? You stick up for A View to a Kill all the time and Roger Moore was 59 in that one! 59! Quantum of Solace isn't good because it's meandering and tedious despite the short running time. Skyfall is long, yes, but at least it leads to revelations and actual plot points. Quantum of Solace just showed that Marc Forster was way out of his respective league with a Bond film. Aside from the pretty badass opening sequence, he had no real handling of action sequences or timing and he made Bond annoyingly sulky and out of character. Oh boo hoo, the Bond girl died, how will he ever get over her? Oh yeah, by meeting all the other damn Bond girls that come along in the series. Bond wasn't hung up over his WIFE being killed in On Her Majesty's Secret Service, he got his revenge in For Your Eyes Only, banged some more women and moved on. Skyfall is expertly shot and was exactly the rebound from Quantum of Solace that the franchise and Daniel Craig needed. I've seen it twice so likely not as many times as you, but you are way off-base giving it a C-. You're essentially lumping it among the lower tier Bonds with a rating like that.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Nov 5, 2015 14:20:27 GMT -5
007 REASONS WHY QUANTUM OF SOLACE IS A GOOD MOVIE (AND BETTER THAN SKYFALL) #7 - IT STARTS EXACTLY WHERE CASINO ROYALE ENDED#6 - JACK WHITE AND ALICIA KEYS#5 - "WE HAVE PEOPLE EVERYWHERE"#4 - THE OPERA SCENE#3 - "IS THIS HOW YOU TREAT YOUR FRIENDS"#2 - THE ENDING FROM MAD MAX?#1 - DID I MENTION IT STARTS EXACTLY WHERE CASINO ROYALE ENDED?
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Nov 5, 2015 14:31:10 GMT -5
I dunno NE, you're reaching juuuust a bit.
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Post by Neverending on Nov 5, 2015 15:06:07 GMT -5
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Nov 5, 2015 15:29:37 GMT -5
For the record, I watched the 3 Craig movies over the last couple days and I no longer think Skyfall is all that great. It's kinda dull, it doesn't make sense a half dozen times, and Bond loses every step of the way. I loved Skyfall back in 2012, but my opinion of that film has dropped considerably with rewatches and reflection. I still really like parts of the film. It's gorgeously shot and there are some really awesome action scenes, but the plot is really thinly held together, the film blatantly steals from Batman Begins/The Dark Knight, and the filmmakers tried way too hard to make Silva threatening, to the point where he's ridiculous as a character. DANIEL CRAIG RE-ASSIGNEDSKYFALL (2012)Like everyone, I got caught up in the hype of James Bond's 50th anniversary. So much so that I actually said Skyfall is one of the best James Bond movies. Oh, boy. What was I thinking? Skyfall isn't even better than Quantum of Solace. Don't believe me? Try watching Skyfall without using your phone or looking at the time. You can AT LEAST watch Quantum of Solace from beginning to end and be entertained. Skyfall is long and boring and stupid. For staters, the pre-title scene is awful. It's easily one of the worst in the franchise. Why the fuck is M micro-managing James Bond? It's James Bond. Leave him the fuck alone. And why is Moneypenny shooting James Bond? Seriously, Moneypenny. What the fuck is wrong with you? And more importantly, WHY are they stealing the plot from Mission: Impossible? Moving on... what the fuck happened to Daniel Craig? He was ugly as fuck in Casino Royale and his penis had no business being near Eva Green, but at least he was YOUNG-ish. Here, he looks 60. He makes Roger Moore look good. Daniel Craig looks so damn old that the movie has to waste our time explaining that James Bond is old and has no business being in the field. That would be fine if this was movie #7, but this is movie #3. If Roger Moore, in his 50's, could fuck Tanya Roberts and no one raised an eyebrow, I think we can give Daniel Craig the same courtesy. He looks old. Whatever. We'll get a new James Bond eventually. Let's just march on. Okay. So... why isn't there an actual Bond girl in this movie? There's that chick who gets killed so James Bond could say a funny line and... that's it. Is Judi Dench supposed to be the Bond girl? Is that what's going on? Did they sacrifice Strawberry Fields for this? And where's Felix Leiter during all this? Or Jack Wade? Or that fat Russian guy from the Harry Potter movies? Or Pierce Brosnan? Anyway, another MAJOR question. Why do they rip-off The Dark Knight? Isn't it bad enough that they rip-off Mission: Impossible? Did they REALLY need to rip-off The Dark Knight? How much shit can this movie be? But, it's not all bad. The opening credits are awesome. I still love the Adele song. Roger Deakins has his moments behind the camera. Javier Bardem is AWESOME as the villain. The ending, in Skyfall, is awesome. So... yeah... Skyfall is a pile of shit with pebbles of gold on top. It's the worst Daniel Craig movie, but at least it's not Moonraker. Right? C- Glad you all finally came around to realize that Skyfall wasn't all that. I feel pretty vindicated. |
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Nov 5, 2015 16:36:50 GMT -5
I watched Tomorrow Never Dies on Tuesday and just got done with The World Is Not Enough. I'll have the usual write-ups soon, but for now...apart from Die Another Day, which is terrible, the Brosnan era is one big giant "meh." Not surprising, though. I'll be re-watching Skyfall tomorrow.
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IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Nov 5, 2015 18:40:31 GMT -5
Why do we care that it starts where Casino Royale ended?
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donny
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Post by donny on Nov 5, 2015 19:32:24 GMT -5
I watched the 3 Craig ones recently as well, and skyfall is better then QoS and it's not close. I like that they play around with the the idea of an older Bond.
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Jibbs
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Post by Jibbs on Nov 5, 2015 20:29:55 GMT -5
Yeah, right where it left off...along with shakey cam and a 0.8 shot per second rate so you can't tell what the hell's going on.
And the song is awful.
The credits sequence alone makes Skyfall better than Quantum.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Nov 5, 2015 21:15:13 GMT -5
along with shakey cam and a 0.8 shot per second rate so you can't tell what the hell's going on. Maybe you're just old. I had no problems following the action. Then again, I watched three Transformers movie so I may have been mentally prepared for Quantum of Solace. |
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Jibbs
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Post by Jibbs on Nov 5, 2015 21:21:04 GMT -5
Maybe I like knowing these stunts actually happened so I can enjoy them as escapism.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Nov 5, 2015 22:00:18 GMT -5
PhantomKnightPIERCE BROSNAN DOUBLE-0 FEATURETOMORROW NEVER DIES (1997) If there was ever an award for worst plot in a James Bond movie, it would go to Tomorrow Never Dies. Not only is the plot beyond ludicrous, but it makes zero sense and the film itself acknowledges that almost right away. To put it simply, it's about a media mogul who orchestrates death and mayhem in order to sell newspapers and get TV ratings. It takes James Bond and M only seconds of screen time to figure that out and they immediately get to work. So to put it more simply, there really isn't a plot. It's just a framing device for all the action scenes. To give the film credit, there are attempts to add substance to the story. M is constantly battling a male dominated military that just wants to blow things up without investigating anything. And James Bond has a tragic love affair with the villain's wife. Some people may roll their eyes at these things, but they mostly work. The truth strength of Tomorrow Never Dies, and the reason no one really "hates it", is because the action scenes are awesome. Tomorrow Never Dies may get the award for dumbest plot, but it's a strong contender for best action scenes. We see James Bond fly a jet plane and eject the backseat passenger into another jet plane. We see him drive his car with a cellphone and ride a motorcycle while handcuffed to another person. And that's just scratching the surface. Tomorrow Never Dies is almost wall-to-wall with over-the-top action scenes and loads of humor in-between. You can tell everyone making this movie was having a great time. Even M and Moneypenny make jokes. How often do you see that? So in spite of all its critical flaws, Tomorrow Never Dies is one of the most entertaining installments in the James Bond franchise. B-THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH (1999) I don't know how you can praise Daniel Craig's James Bond movies and then hate The World Is Not Enough. They're all connected. This was the first James Bond film co-written by Neal Purvis and Robert Wade and their trademarks are all over the place. The World Is Not Enough is basically a prototype for Daniel Craig's reign. We see James Bond on a personal mission where he's betrayed by the woman he loves, gets tortured by the villain, and the final action scene is under water. Sound familiar? Yeah, it was called Casino Royale. Oh, and did I mention that M has a major role and has close ties to the villain? Yeah, remember that in Skyfall? Now here's the part where Doomsday and SnoBorderZero get pissed off and start looking for excuses. There are no excuses. We HAVE seen James Bond on a personal mission. We HAVE seen him get betrayed by women and get tortured. We have even seen the final action scene take place under water. But this is the first time where everything happens in the same movie. And this is definitely the first time M plays a major role in a James Bond movie. But what about Christmas Jones? What about that line, "Christmas only comes twice a year"? Wasn't that horrible? Um... not really. Maybe you haven't watched The World Is Not Enough in 15 years and your memory is a bit fuzzy, but Denise Richards has a very small screen time and she isn't even the main Bond girl. That honor goes to Sophie Marceau. Well, what about Robert Carlyle and that forgettable villain? Again. Have you seen this film in the last 15 years? That honor also goes to Sophie Marceau. Sophie Marceau is both the Bond girl and the villain and she's awesome in the role. There's really very little to hate about The World Is Not Enough. The story is serious. Pierce Brosnan is serious. Sophie Marceau and Judi Dench are serious. The action scenes, for the most part, are toned down. We even get to say goodbye to Desmond Llewelyn as Q. The flaws in The World Is Not Enough are minimum and not worth getting upset about. It's a good James Bond movie. B
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Nov 5, 2015 22:08:28 GMT -5
Daniel Craig Bond song rankings:
Casino Royale
Skyfall
Quantum of Solace
Spectre
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Nov 5, 2015 22:10:19 GMT -5
Daniel Craig Bond song rankings: Casino Royale Skyfall Quantum of Solace Spectre I think everyone would agree to that. Although Skyfall does have the best opening credits. The other movies aren't even competition. |
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Jibbs
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Post by Jibbs on Nov 5, 2015 22:41:40 GMT -5
Skyfall's a better song.
Tomorrow Never Dies is underrated. Like you said, it's just wall-to-wall amazing action and fun.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Nov 6, 2015 9:40:13 GMT -5
GEORGE LAZENBY: ON HER MAJESTY'S TEMPORARY SERVICEON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE (1969) Every time I watch On Her Majesty's Secret Service I feel that George Lazenby was set-up to fail. The James Bond franchise has usually done a great job of introducing a new 007 to the world by giving the actors space to prove themselves. That wasn't the case with George Lazenby. The ghost of Sean Connery was constantly hovering over him. In the pre-titles scene, he literally stares at the camera and says, "this never happened to the other fella." Then the opening credits literally show montages of the Sean Connery movies and later on there's a scene where George Lazenby is picking up props from those same movies. And if that wasn't bad enough, there's an entire section of the movie where George Lazenby is wearing a Scottish kilt and being dubbed by another actor. It's no surprise that audiences never took him seriously in the role. Even if George Lazenby had delivered a great performance, it wouldn't have mattered because the entire movie was designed for Sean Connery. When you watch Roger Moore, Timothy Dalton, Pierce Brosnan and Daniel Craig, it feels like they're the stars of their movies. With On Her Majesty's Secret Service, it feels like a Sean Connery movie starring someone else. Another issue is the odd story structure and pacing. The first 30-40 minutes is just James Bond romancing his Italian girlfriend. There's even a musical montage. Then there's like an hour where James Bond is infiltrating Blofeld's base of operations and he spends most of his time having sex with women. Doesn't that contradict everything we just saw? Sure, you can make the argument that a statement about James Bond is being made. But how can you take any of it seriously when your leading actor is being dubbed for no reason? Then the last 30-40 minutes are just endless action scenes. They're incredible action scenes, but there's no emotion behind them because I'm sure most audiences didn't care about the characters at this point. Overall, On Her Majesty's Secret Service has a reputation in some circles for being the hidden gem. It's the movie that could have been the best with a better actor playing James Bond. And MAYBE there's truth to that. But what we ended up with is something kind of shitty. There ARE awesome moments, but there's also LOTS of moments that are the opposite of awesome. It's no surprise that George Lazenby didn't make more James Bond movies. He was never given a proper invitation. C-
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Nov 6, 2015 10:56:41 GMT -5
Skyfall and On Her Majesty's Secret Service are two of the best of the series and you give them a C- and The World is Not Enough a B. Ridiculous.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Nov 6, 2015 11:45:15 GMT -5
Skyfall and On Her Majesty's Secret Service are two of the best of the series and you give them a C- and The World is Not Enough a B. Ridiculous. It could be worse. Did you see PhantomKnight 's review of GoldenEye? |
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Nov 6, 2015 11:47:14 GMT -5
Yes I did and I disagreed with that as well.
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Jibbs
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Post by Jibbs on Nov 6, 2015 21:25:33 GMT -5
I found all of my James Bond Top Ten lists. Here's the list I had to rank the movies. Naturally, I've tweaked it some.
• Goldeneye
• Goldfinger
• From Russia With Love
• Casino Royale
• Dr. No
• The Spy Who Loved Me
• Tomorrow Never Dies
• Thunderball
• Licence to Kill
• The Living Daylights
• Skyfall
• For Your Eyes Only
• The World is Not Enough
• You Only Live Twice
• Quantum of Solace
• Octopussy
• Moonraker
• Live and Let Die
• A View to a Kill
• On Her Majesty’s Secret Service
• Diamonds Are Forever
• The Man with the Golden Gun
• Die Another Day
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