Jibbs
Administrator 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 75,725 
Likes: 1,657
Location:
Last Online Feb 20, 2024 18:06:23 GMT -5
|
Post by Jibbs on Oct 14, 2015 20:12:45 GMT -5
Well if you're going to spoil the line.
|
|
PhantomKnight
CS! Gold
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 20,528
Likes: 3,130
Location:
Last Online Nov 23, 2024 12:33:37 GMT -5
|
Post by PhantomKnight on Oct 14, 2015 22:11:33 GMT -5
Well if you're going to spoil the line. He didn't spoil it. I watched License to Kill over a month ago (REALLY behind on Letterboxd as a result). |
|
Jibbs
Administrator
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 75,725
Likes: 1,657
Location:
Last Online Feb 20, 2024 18:06:23 GMT -5
|
Post by Jibbs on Oct 14, 2015 22:30:42 GMT -5
Familiar with the gunshots that play the James Bond theme?
|
|
Deexan
CS! Silver
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 18,196
Likes: 2,995
Location:
Last Online Nov 13, 2021 19:23:59 GMT -5
|
Post by Deexan on Oct 15, 2015 6:35:26 GMT -5
I've heard the Bond theme so often through the years that it's lost all effectiveness.
It's just white noise.
|
|
Jibbs
Administrator
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 75,725
Likes: 1,657
Location:
Last Online Feb 20, 2024 18:06:23 GMT -5
|
Post by Jibbs on Oct 15, 2015 18:02:07 GMT -5
I's even occasionally in the Bond movies these days. Well, once.
|
|
PhantomKnight
CS! Gold
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 20,528
Likes: 3,130
Location:
Last Online Nov 23, 2024 12:33:37 GMT -5
|
Post by PhantomKnight on Oct 17, 2015 13:04:05 GMT -5
LICENSE TO KILL (1989)
Now we're talkin'. License to Kill may be the most stripped-down, bare-bones Bond movie since either of the first two, and of course, I really dug this movie as a result, both because it resembles the current Craig era in a lot of ways and because the approach just feels welcome after the long run of mostly "too silly for their own good" Roger Moore-led entries.
With License to Kill, we get a really emotionally-driven story for Bond, as he goes after a drug kingpin who nearly killed Felix Leiter and does so at the risk of his own job. It lends the movie a grittiness you never really saw in the franchise up to this point, which helps it feel a little fresh. Seeing Bond go all-out and off the reservation is pretty interesting and Timothy Dalton once again does very fine work in the role. I know a lot of people complain about his portrayal of Bond and of his Bond movies in general, but his interpretation honestly works with the tone of the films he was in. There are many good action scenes throughout, with the opening being quite good. However, even though I appreciated the personal stakes of the story, I found the villain himself kind of bland and unmemorable. Also, it was interesting seeing Benicio Del Toro in what had to be one of his first roles.
So yeah, short-lived as Dalton's time as Bond may have been, I really enjoyed it and wish he could've stayed around longer. Next up, we go back to formula with the Brosnan era...
***/****
|
|
Neverending
CS! Platinum
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,773
Likes: 8,648
Location:
Last Online Nov 22, 2024 18:30:10 GMT -5
|
Post by Neverending on Oct 17, 2015 19:06:06 GMT -5
PhantomKnightI've always had mixed feelings about License to Kill. It IS a good movie and it is technically better than The Living Daylights, but there is one BIG issue you failed to mention. It's Lethal Weapon meets Die Hard. They even got Michael Kamen to write the music. It's impossible to watch License to Kill and not immediately think 80's action movie - and James Bond is supposed to be more than that. As silly as the Roger Moore movies are, at least they had their own identity. That's why I think Pierce Brosnan doing The Living Daylights would have been better for the franchise. He would have kept the series alive during the late 1980's and early 90's and would have ended his tenure before the new millennium - meaning that Die Another Day would have been avoid. And we would have gotten the new Bond in 2001 or 2002, before The Bourne Identity and Batman Begins had influenced the franchise.
|
|
Dracula
CS! Gold
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 26,103
Likes: 5,731
Location:
Member is Online
|
Post by Dracula on Oct 17, 2015 20:10:19 GMT -5
That's why I think Pierce Brosnan doing The Living Daylights would have been better for the franchise. He would have kept the series alive during the late 1980's and early 90's and would have ended his tenure before the new millennium - meaning that Die Another Day would have been avoid. And we would have gotten the new Bond in 2001 or 2002, before The Bourne Identity and Batman Begins had influenced the franchise. That, or he would have followed the writers down the same exact path and gotten the same backlash and would have also ended up making only two movies. |
|
PhantomKnight
CS! Gold
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 20,528
Likes: 3,130
Location:
Last Online Nov 23, 2024 12:33:37 GMT -5
|
Post by PhantomKnight on Oct 17, 2015 20:12:07 GMT -5
...And I'd argue that The Bourne Identity and Batman Begins influencing the franchise was the best thing that could've happened to it.  |
|
Neverending
CS! Platinum
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,773
Likes: 8,648
Location:
Last Online Nov 22, 2024 18:30:10 GMT -5
|
Post by Neverending on Oct 17, 2015 20:57:40 GMT -5
Or he would have followed the writers down the same exact path No. The Living Daylights was written for Pierce Brosnan. He was James Bond until the 11th hour. License to Kill was written for Timothy Dalton and that's a radically different movie from The Living Daylights. The writers, Michael G. Wilson and Richard Maibaum, would have never written License to Kill if Pierce Brosnan was James Bond. They would have written something closer in spirit to The Living Daylights. Also... Even IF they had written License to Kill, it would have still been a different movie. GoldenEye was originally written for Timothy Dalton, hence the theme of James Bond being haunted by his past and facing uncertainty in a new world, but the filmmakers made changes when Pierce Brosnan was cast and it totally worked without violating the core of the original script. Pierce Brosnan was more successful in a Timothy Dalton script than Timothy Dalton was in a Pierce Brosnan script. |
|
Dracula
CS! Gold
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 26,103
Likes: 5,731
Location:
Member is Online
|
Post by Dracula on Oct 17, 2015 23:04:51 GMT -5
Or he would have followed the writers down the same exact path No. The Living Daylights was written for Pierce Brosnan. He was James Bond until the 11th hour. License to Kill was written for Timothy Dalton and that's a radically different movie from The Living Daylights. The writers, Michael G. Wilson and Richard Maibaum, would have never written License to Kill if Pierce Brosnan was James Bond. They would have written something closer in spirit to The Living Daylights. Also... Even IF they had written License to Kill, it would have still been a different movie. GoldenEye was originally written for Timothy Dalton, hence the theme of James Bond being haunted by his past and facing uncertainty in a new world, but the filmmakers made changes when Pierce Brosnan was cast and it totally worked without violating the core of the original script. Pierce Brosnan was more successful in a Timothy Dalton script than Timothy Dalton was in a Pierce Brosnan script. Meh. Licence to Kill might have been flavored a bit by the fact that Timothy Dalton had a grittier sensibility but its 80s action film tone probably had more to do with a sort of desperate belief on the part of the producers that they were being one-uped by other action movies and that they had to keep up with the Joneses. It's pretty much the same thing that led them to start aping Bourne during the Craig era. |
|
Neverending
CS! Platinum
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,773
Likes: 8,648
Location:
Last Online Nov 22, 2024 18:30:10 GMT -5
|
Post by Neverending on Oct 18, 2015 20:22:19 GMT -5
No. The Living Daylights was written for Pierce Brosnan. He was James Bond until the 11th hour. License to Kill was written for Timothy Dalton and that's a radically different movie from The Living Daylights. The writers, Michael G. Wilson and Richard Maibaum, would have never written License to Kill if Pierce Brosnan was James Bond. They would have written something closer in spirit to The Living Daylights. Also... Even IF they had written License to Kill, it would have still been a different movie. GoldenEye was originally written for Timothy Dalton, hence the theme of James Bond being haunted by his past and facing uncertainty in a new world, but the filmmakers made changes when Pierce Brosnan was cast and it totally worked without violating the core of the original script. Pierce Brosnan was more successful in a Timothy Dalton script than Timothy Dalton was in a Pierce Brosnan script. Meh. Licence to Kill might have been flavored a bit by the fact that Timothy Dalton had a grittier sensibility but its 80s action film tone probably had more to do with a sort of desperate belief on the part of the producers that they were being one-uped by other action movies and that they had to keep up with the Joneses. It's pretty much the same thing that led them to start aping Bourne during the Craig era. There is truth to that. The Living Daylights was a box office disappointment (not necessarily a flop) and that certainly influenced a lot of the decision making that went into License to Kill. But it also cannot be ignored that audiences didn't like Timothy Dalton. That affected things too. Audiences did like Pierce Brosnan, so things might have been very different had he made The Living Daylights. |
|
PhantomKnight
CS! Gold
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 20,528
Likes: 3,130
Location:
Last Online Nov 23, 2024 12:33:37 GMT -5
|
Post by PhantomKnight on Oct 22, 2015 18:52:36 GMT -5
GOLDENEYE (1995)
GoldenEye was actually a Bond film I had pretty high hopes for when I sat down to watch it. Many fans hail it as one of the best of the franchise, plus it's directed by Martin Campbell, who also directed Casino Royale, which I'm a really big fan of. I've actually seen bits and pieces of the film here and there, but never the whole thing in its entirety. And...maybe I should stop getting my hopes so high with a certain few of these.
That's not to say I found GoldenEye to be really bad or anything, more like...competent. I dunno, I just can't get into the traditional Bond formula that much, and GoldenEye reaffirms why: I feel like I've seen this stuff already, and I basically have. At least fifteen times. So, no matter how much life Campbell tries to bring to the proceedings -- and to his credit, he DOES in fact do that -- there's that ever-present feeling of sameness about this franchise that, to me, has always been a hindrance. It's why I've always appreciated when a few of these movies have at least tried a different tone/approach.
So rather than bore you with my various dislikes, I'll focus on the positives: the opening is pretty awesome and gets the movie off to a great start. The theme song is great, too, and probably one of my favorites. Sean Bean makes for an enjoyable villain and I appreciated making him have a past, personal connection to Bond. The action sequences are good, with kind of a grittier feel to them in spite of the usual Bond scale being present, and I like Pierce Brosnan in the role.
But it all ultimately boils down to the fact that while GoldenEye may have reasonably entertained me as a whole, the story really didn't do much for me. I realize story isn't typically a prime concern when it comes to James Bond, but damnit, the Daniel Craig films really have spoiled me in that regard.
**1/2 /****
(P.S. I'm running into a bit of an issue with Tomorrow Never Dies. Netflix lists the DVD as currently unavailable, period, and Amazon Video doesn't let you rent it for $3.99. What the fuck?) |
|
Jibbs
Administrator
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 75,725
Likes: 1,657
Location:
Last Online Feb 20, 2024 18:06:23 GMT -5
|
Post by Jibbs on Oct 22, 2015 19:06:56 GMT -5
Booooo!
|
|
Doomsday
Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,300
Likes: 6,766
Location:
Last Online Nov 23, 2024 13:38:40 GMT -5
|
Post by Doomsday on Oct 22, 2015 19:28:57 GMT -5
Boooo-urns!
|
|
Neverending
CS! Platinum
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,773
Likes: 8,648
Location:
Last Online Nov 22, 2024 18:30:10 GMT -5
|
Post by Neverending on Oct 22, 2015 21:03:20 GMT -5
I realize story isn't typically a prime concern when it comes to James Bond, but damnit, the Daniel Craig films really have spoiled me in that regard. Please enlighten us. GoldenEye has a better story than any Daniel Craig movie. Casino Royale's story was... what... secret agent plays card games and then gets betrayed by his lover. Quantum of Solace's story was... secret agent tries to stop guy from stealing water or whatever. Skyfall's story was... let's rip-off Christopher Nolan. GoldenEye was about James Bond trying to survive in a post-Cold War world while being haunted by his past. It's deeper and darker than anything Timothy Dalton or Daniel Craig had to offer. Daniel Craig's movies are superficial. They're Bourne Identity wannabe. GoldenEye, as you say, stays true to everything the franchise represents while still giving meaning to the character and his world. That's why 99.9% of fans consider it a Top 5 Bond movie. |
|
Jibbs
Administrator
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 75,725
Likes: 1,657
Location:
Last Online Feb 20, 2024 18:06:23 GMT -5
|
Post by Jibbs on Oct 22, 2015 22:19:37 GMT -5
Goldeneye was the first Bond movie (that I can think of) to have a character question Bond's character as not being 100% awesome.
"How can you act this way? How can you be so cold?"
"It's what keeps me alive."
Now we have Craig who can't even have fun anymore. Brosnan was a good mix of serious and comedy.
|
|
IanTheCool
CS! Gold
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 21,493
Likes: 2,864
Location:
Last Online Nov 23, 2024 10:24:29 GMT -5
|
Post by IanTheCool on Oct 22, 2015 22:25:55 GMT -5
I'LL be the judge of that.
|
|
Neverending
CS! Platinum
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,773
Likes: 8,648
Location:
Last Online Nov 22, 2024 18:30:10 GMT -5
|
Post by Neverending on Oct 22, 2015 23:12:09 GMT -5
"How can you act this way? How can you be so cold?" "It's what keeps me alive." That line was written for Timothy Dalton and Pierce Brosnan totally nailed it. I also like: "For England, James?" "No. For me." Pierce Brosnan was a combination of Sean Connery, Roger Moore and Timothy Dalton. That's why people love him, but also why people hate him. He never really made the role his own. He was always in the shadows of the other actors. Daniel Craig, even though he's just Timothy Dalton 2.0, has at least created his own version of the character. But you're right though. Brosnan at least had FUN in the role. That automatically makes him better than Craig. James Bond is supposed to be male fantasy. That's something PhantomKnight is totally missing about these movies. |
|
PG Cooper
CS! Silver
Join Date: Feb 2009
And those who tasted the bite of his sword named him...The DOOM Slayer
Posts: 16,647
Likes: 4,062
Location:
Member is Online
|
Post by PG Cooper on Oct 23, 2015 9:09:45 GMT -5
I think Casino Royale handles the theme of questioning Bond as a character way better than GoldenEye. That said, GoldenEye is a fun movie and is easily the best film of the Brosnan era. It's got great pacing, lots of good action, a poor of cool villains, and the intro to Judi Dench as M. PhantomKnight, if you didn't like this, the Brosnan age will be rough for you. |
|
donny
CS! Bronze
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 10,631
Likes: 1,332
Location:
Last Online Nov 21, 2024 23:07:04 GMT -5
|
Post by donny on Oct 23, 2015 11:00:33 GMT -5
I love Goldeneye as well, but I don't think the Craig one's are necessarily superficial. At least Casino Royale. That had some great moments, namely any time he and vesper are on screen together.
Quantum was terrible.
|
|
PG Cooper
CS! Silver
Join Date: Feb 2009
And those who tasted the bite of his sword named him...The DOOM Slayer
Posts: 16,647
Likes: 4,062
Location:
Member is Online
|
Post by PG Cooper on Oct 23, 2015 11:19:09 GMT -5
I love Goldeneye as well, but I don't think the Craig one's are necessarily superficial. At least Casino Royale. That had some great moments, namely any time he and vesper are on screen together. The scene where Bond holds her in the shower is really genuine. Great little scene. |
|
SnoBorderZero
CS! Silver
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 17,624
Likes: 3,182
Location:
Last Online Nov 23, 2024 13:48:27 GMT -5
|
Post by SnoBorderZero on Oct 23, 2015 11:42:09 GMT -5
Yeah if you're not impressed with GoldenEye then brace yourself for Die Another Day.
|
|
Doomsday
Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,300
Likes: 6,766
Location:
Last Online Nov 23, 2024 13:38:40 GMT -5
|
Post by Doomsday on Oct 23, 2015 13:24:41 GMT -5
I don't know which one I personally dislike more, The World Is Not Enough or Die Another Day. Die Another Day is just this crappy cartoony thing that's essentially the campiest Roger Moore moments extended over and entire movie. The World Is Not Enough is an overly serious but highly unenjoyable outing that never seems like its having any fun. I remember walking out of the theaters feeling pretty rotten about it.
|
|
Dracula
CS! Gold
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 26,103
Likes: 5,731
Location:
Member is Online
|
Post by Dracula on Oct 23, 2015 15:40:50 GMT -5
PhantomKnight, if you didn't like this, the Brosnan age will be rough for you. He might maybe be pleasantly surprised by TWINE. It goes off formula a little and wants to make Bond look all tortured and has that "I never miss" moment. |
|
