Ramplate
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Post by Ramplate on Jan 20, 2015 16:14:52 GMT -5
Decent movie - Oscar winner? Probably not unless it gets the sentimental patriotic vote
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Jan 20, 2015 16:19:43 GMT -5
I don't see this winning any Oscars.
As much as I was entertained by the movie, I did see a review on Rotten Tomatoes that sums it up pretty well. It was something to the effect of 'We've moved past war movies such as this.' Well put methinks.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 16:21:21 GMT -5
You didn't understand the point of the op-ed. Horton is saying that making these kinds of movies, while they might be entertaining, is not a realistic depiction of war. Horton, who mentioned this as well, was actually enlisted too. I don't even see what there is to disagree with? The United States has always been about the "hero" ideology. It's not terribly dissimilar from Soviet propaganda, just on a less obvious scale (if you doubt me, read any modern day philosopher) There are countless films that really do show how un-eventful war can be, or how ugly it can be. Look at Jarhead or Saving Private Ryan. I dare you to watch The Thin Red Line, and then Lone Survivor or American Sniper back to back. Granted, they are completely different takes on the movie: one is a deeply philosophical look into man's place in war, while the others are essentially Call of Duty in 35mm, but they are good examples of what questions we should be asking about ourselves. Should we find this enjoyable? Or does that just kill our ability to empathize? How are the antagonists painted (look at Munich--a very level-headed look on terrorism)? Is this just a mindless exercise in three act structure or something human? What's worse, a mechanically cold film about war, or one that understands and empathizes with the soldiers? I'm not sure you even read it, or maybe it just didn't process through the first read. No one is saying the average person is stupid. Where or why did you assume that? Because people can be manipulated without knowing it? That doesn't make them stupid. Film, in itself, is an act of manipulation. It's obvious that film (this movie in particular) manipulates storytelling for maximum pleasure. How is that not an act of a director or studio "changing the cultural perception"? Do you think people really want to see war in all of its ugliness, or painted in a heroic, phony way, like American Sniper? I'm not going to get into a long debate with you about this, so if you want we can continue this discussion in PM. I don't want to clog up this thread with this shit. I read the article and agreed that it was not a realistic depiction of war, which is why I mentioned the paperwork and intel gathering. Who wants to watch a film that would need to be in the neighborhood of 10 hours to show the action and also numerous unnamed pencil pushers sitting at a desk writing out reports on God knows what. I doubt anyone thought Chris Kyle just jumped from one sniping position to another without any kind of break to handle all of the other things being on a battlefield involves. Would CoD be fun if you spent an hour shooting away at baddies and then followed that up with 3 hours of hand written reports that had to be turned in before going on to the next mission? Would Chris Kyle's book have sold as many copies if every other chapter was about sitting in debriefings and eating lunch? Comparing The Thin Red Line to either film would not make sense because they are two different types of films. Would you compare The Fast and the Furious to Driving Miss Daisy? No. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 16:33:08 GMT -5
That's exactly the point. They are preying on people's proclivity to violence. Of course no one is saying (not me, nor Horton for that matter) that a war movie should just be people writing things down or delivering mail. What I am saying is that it motivates a very unnatural view of war. Do you disagree that war has been completely misrepresented? No one liked seeing the opening scene of Saving Private Ryan. Do you know why? Because it's real. Every weekend people go out to the theater to be entertained, not to experience something terrifying. Why would Eastwood want to make a movie that made people feel uncomfortable? On top of that, he's never been a very daring filmmaker (he's the very definition of milquetoast). He wouldn't, of course, nor would that guy who did Lone Survivor. What people want is to feel strong, to feel a part of something, to help feed their own need to be a "hero", when all they do in life is push papers. Do you disagree? If not, then tell me how a studio preying on that desire is not horrible.
But that's exactly my point. They aren't anything alike. Can you guess why? First of all, TTRL is an example of a person probing the human subconscious during wartime; their pasts, their fears, their inability to cope. Hell, Black Hawk Down was a better example of a war movie than Lone Survivor or this shit. Secondly, when looking at both, you start to notice why they're so different. And it isn't just the style or theme; it's the content and outlook. One is almost nihilistic, that being Lone Survivor and this movie, while the other is an honest look into war. You're giving someone a watered down version, while the other seeks to remedy any misrepresentation of war. Remember Jarhead? A seemingly innocuous movie, but the amount of time spent doing nothing really outweighs the action. Jake doesn't even kill anyone! It's actually pretty intelligent. See, that's what I mean. This movie is just cashing in on a cheap product.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 16:43:04 GMT -5
Have you watched the film yet? Your original post would indicate you haven't.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 16:44:05 GMT -5
That was two days ago. I usually watch a movie a day. I have seen the movie, just not in the theater.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 16:58:46 GMT -5
Ok just checking.
Why does this film need to be anything else than what it was? Jarhead did show the boring side of war and guess what? Its total gross was less than what American Sniper did in just this one weekend. Same for The Thin Red Line. People lead boring lives. I do a ton of paperwork in my job, half of it is filling out forms on the work I have done. Why do I need to see this in film? If I made a film on my life I would weed out that boring crap because I am there to sell a product and a boring ass product doesn't sell. Why berate movie studios for making a profit, easy or not? The film is based on actual events and I think the film did a good, not great, job of getting the story across.
Most of the people upset with this film are just people who can not stand to see someone proud of their country and the military. Having to defend the film for being too "Pro American" is just insane.
Did you nitpick over Braveheart and all of its imperfections, straight up inaccuracies, and for being too Pro Scottish?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 17:36:15 GMT -5
I don't think I need to state that film isn't about the money. It's about creating something people can connect to.
That's kind of assuming that the object should be to "escape" from reality. Did you ever stop to think that maybe people needed to be in tune with their lives or their selves, not immersing themselves in a phony, poorly done representation of the war? Most people are living vicariously through film. They don't have decent lives, so naturally they run towards something more exciting. So instead of actually going out and doing something more constructive, and maybe learning something, they sit and stare blankly at a bad movie that straight-up exploits the heroism of a soldier.
There's a good reason as to why. A majority of the world does not care this much about their country or their military. Take Spain, Italy, England, and even the Nordic countries, they are not that patriotic. Having been to several of said countries, I can confirm the fact that mocking their own country is common practice. Patriotism (present day Germany is guilty of this too, with the Islamic protest) has gotten out of control. It's so bad that ANYONE badmouthing the USA is reduced to "a liberal". Don't you see what's wrong with this picture? There's healthy patriotism, and unhealthy patriotism (take that girl with the gun and bible in hand with the flag behind her as an example of insanity).
I didn't like Braveheart because it was a bad movie. Mel's accent was pretty awful, even my friends from the UK ridicule it (I luv yuh). Gladiator was a better sword and sandal flick (with my interest in Ancient Rome being the primary reason). I don't have a horse in that race, to be honest, so I don't really care.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 17:47:56 GMT -5
they sit and stare blankly at a bad movie that straight-up exploits the heroism of a soldier. I didn't like Braveheart because it was a bad movie. Mel's accent was pretty awful, even my friends from the UK ridicule it (I luv yuh). Gladiator was a better sword and sandal flick (with my interest in Ancient Rome being the primary reason). I don't have a horse in that race, to be honest, so I don't really care. The movie is based on the book written by Kyle himself. It doesn't exploit in anyway, it just tells his story. My point to bring up Braveheart is that the similarities are there and no one wrote blogs about how Braveheart was just too Scottish and didn't show the realities of what happened during their battles and in between. Why did no one complain that we did not see Wallace having to plan and work with his men and the long walks they would have to take from battlefield to battlefield. Most people love this film, but you update the story and make it about an American Hero saving lives in the middle east and you have bloggers and other like minded people giving it crap. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 17:57:40 GMT -5
I'm not talking about the book. I'm talking about the movie adaptation. One he did himself, while the other was made for money.
I don't get what that has to do with me though. If someone likes Braveheart and not American Sniper, that's fine. I get what you're saying. But your comparison doesn't really apply to me, as I hated both movies, both on a technical level and on a deeper one. Also, I generally hate when people use "most people _____" as an argument. Same with "anecdotal evidence"--these two don't work for me. There are also plenty of negative reviews for Braveheart, as well as several articles on movies to watch instead of Braveheart (for Scottish history).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 18:33:44 GMT -5
The comparison is just as valid as yours. I disliked Jarhead but that does not somehow disprove your comparison? Not sure where you are going with that.
My original issue was with you saying the film being pro-American was a bad thing. You brought up all the other movies to compare it to. That is what it has to do with you.
You posted an article saying the film was not realistic.
Here is a quote from Dakota Meyer, a sniper and Medal of Honor Recipient.
"I served as a Marine sniper for three years, and I believe the film American Sniper depicted what we do perfectly."
So who is right and who is wrong?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 18:50:25 GMT -5
I never said it wasn't valid, I said I understood it, but it doesn't apply to me.
First off, let me reiterate my point: I said I had trouble with it being a "America fuck yeah" type of film. That phrase has been around since South Park spoofed our overly patriotic qualities. That's what's negative, not a film being pro-American. How does that translate to me having a problem with something being pro-America? You make it sound like I hate this country or something. That's a little deceptive.
I don't believe I ever said the action was unrealistic, or the tactical crap, or even all of the content. I said it was unrealistic to expect all war to be like that all the time. Like it's a video game or something. That's what I take issue with. War being transformed into a video game. If this is supposed to be rhetorical or not, then okay, I guess. If not, then okay, whatever you say, I don't have anything at stake here. And quite frankly, you and I will never see eye to eye on just about anything. It's best to just ignore each other completely.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 18:53:44 GMT -5
Where is the fun in that?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 18:58:24 GMT -5
Because I'm not a confrontational person.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 18:59:17 GMT -5
Discussion about a movie is what we are here for.........
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 19:11:33 GMT -5
No, not me. I'm here for the gallows humor and cat pictures.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 19:23:01 GMT -5
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IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Jan 20, 2015 19:56:00 GMT -5
Its fine for a movie to take a political stand. I'm not one of those people who thinks they need to be neutral or anything. But my issue is juts how cheesy and syrupy the patriotism here is. Like that scene where he sees the embassy bombings on tv, gets up with an angry look on his face and says "Look what they did to us"? Really?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 19:59:44 GMT -5
Its fine for a movie to take a political stand. I'm not one of those people who thinks they need to be neutral or anything. But my issue is juts how cheesy and syrupy the patriotism here is. Like that scene where he sees the embassy bombings on tv, gets up with an angry look on his face and says "Look what they did to us"? Really? But if that was his real reaction should they have changed it for the film? |
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IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Jan 20, 2015 20:03:47 GMT -5
If he actually got up and said those exact words out loud to the tv, and you can prove it, i will eat my hat.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 20:08:55 GMT -5
I was there, I was the guy with his girlfriend. EAT HAT!
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Fanible
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Post by Fanible on Jan 20, 2015 20:18:14 GMT -5
While not being able to prove it, per se, I'm assuming he claimed to have done so. Isn't this supposed to be based on testimony?
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frankyt
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Post by frankyt on Jan 21, 2015 10:07:50 GMT -5
He also claimed to have punched Jesse Ventura in the face. Then his publishing company had to pay 1.8 million to Ventura as it turned out to be a lie.
Kyle was an attention seeking whore.
I didn't think the movie was too terrible though (certainly not even keeled at times, but to be expected with a film like this). All the phone calls during battles though... absurd.
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Jan 21, 2015 10:21:23 GMT -5
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Deexan
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Post by Deexan on Jan 21, 2015 11:39:46 GMT -5
Oh dear.
Some hero.
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