Jibbs
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Post by Jibbs on Sept 27, 2015 12:00:02 GMT -5
He also has eleven secret herbs and spices.
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Ramplate
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Post by Ramplate on Sept 27, 2015 13:34:33 GMT -5
Everyone who gets in there promises stuff that they find out just can't be done once they actually get the job and learn all the inside stuff. At least Sanders has a lot of experience working with people on Capitol Hill. Sanders has been in politics since 1971 and Was elected Mayor of Burlington VT in 1981, 83, and 85, and 87. US Representative in 1990 - 2004, Senator since 2006. Obama was a state senator for 7 years and a US senator for 3 years. What does Bernie Sanders have except the empty promises which could never happen and could never be paid for? I get why some find him so appealing, but I can't escape the nagging suspicion they're being hoodwinked. How do you know they could never happen? Never be paid for? (/sarcasm) Like so much that is being paid for now? (/end sarcasm) The Deficit will probably still be there regardless of who is in office but it has gotten better under democrats than it has under republicans in recent times. Like I said, he will push for real changes which will probably trim spending in several areas, and hopefully get people working again, and hopefully get social programs in place that will actually help the rest of us instead of the rich just getting richer and keeping it. Like I said for one thing we have a HUGE military budget that does not need to be that high - we will still be in good shape defensively and offensively if we need to go that route, but we cannot go on being the world's only policemen. There are many things in this country right here at home that need to be worked on for the good of all, and that is a good direction to head in. We are one of, if not the richest, nations on earth and we still have hungry children living in poverty. We have too many people arguing with each other when we should be helping each other to be better as a nation and community. We have so much that is not being put to good use. Quite a bit of the world also hates us (and in some cases rightly so) time for some sweeping changes. Hoodwinked? No I believe he means what he is saying, and I think he's about the only one not talking from his ass. Granted the US is much larger than the countries that are running under a lot of the same programs he is proposing, but they are being run more efficiently for their people for the most part. |
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Sept 27, 2015 15:14:04 GMT -5
I sometimes see acquantainces or people on the internet bemoaning that Obama the President isn't like Obama the candidate they voted for. Good thing he isn't. As a candidate he was show ponies, unicorns, and no substance. As a President he's been pragmatic, willing to compromise and practical. His foreign policy, mainly the influence of Biden I believe, has been great. And I don't care what anyone says, drones are awesome. Bernie Sanders, on the other hand, is no substance. His plan doesn't pay for itself within even 10 years. Hes farting rainbows and puking Leprechauns. As a general rule of thumb, candidates falling back on rah rah populism are full of shit and just saying it for votes. That being said, Sanders is probably the third least shitty candidate right now, and I'd still have him over probably any of the Republican candidates. It's a strategy. No matter what you propose to the modern Republican party they're going to scream "socialism" and if you ever manage to reach a compromise the bill will be heavily watered down. If that bill that gets watered down is sane and centrist from the beginning that watering down will pretty much kill it, but if it's a far-left wing pipe-dream from the beginning then its watered down version will be genuinely centrist... if that makes any sense. |
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Post by Neverending on Sept 27, 2015 16:47:29 GMT -5
I sometimes see acquaintances or people on the internet bemoaning that Obama the President isn't like Obama the candidate they voted for. Good thing he isn't. That was true until this year. Politics is a game. He had to wait till the mid-point of his 2nd term to start getting hardcore. |
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Post by Ramplate on Sept 27, 2015 17:18:12 GMT -5
Yes, that does make sense Drac.
And yes, politics is a bunch of games you have to know how to wheel and deal so you keep what you really want.
The problem is still the pork - too much stuff gets tossed into bills that shouldn't be included - stuff that has nothing to do with the main bill, but gets tossed in there anyway so someone can say, "see? I passed this for my people back home who put me here."
And all that pork adds to the costs of everything - the president needs line item veto - but that's a REAL pipe dream.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Sept 27, 2015 17:53:45 GMT -5
I sometimes see acquantainces or people on the internet bemoaning that Obama the President isn't like Obama the candidate they voted for. Good thing he isn't. As a candidate he was show ponies, unicorns, and no substance. As a President he's been pragmatic, willing to compromise and practical. His foreign policy, mainly the influence of Biden I believe, has been great. And I don't care what anyone says, drones are awesome. Bernie Sanders, on the other hand, is no substance. His plan doesn't pay for itself within even 10 years. Hes farting rainbows and puking Leprechauns. As a general rule of thumb, candidates falling back on rah rah populism are full of shit and just saying it for votes. That being said, Sanders is probably the third least shitty candidate right now, and I'd still have him over probably any of the Republican candidates. It's a strategy. No matter what you propose to the modern Republican party they're going to scream "socialism" and if you ever manage to reach a compromise the bill will be heavily watered down. If that bill that gets watered down is sane and centrist from the beginning that watering down will pretty much kill it, but if it's a far-left wing pipe-dream from the beginning then its watered down version will be genuinely centrist... if that makes any sense. Oh I get the strategy, it's very similar to the increasingly crazy rhetoric that gets thrown around in Republican primaries to gain the support of the religious right. |
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Sept 27, 2015 17:56:08 GMT -5
Yes, that does make sense Drac. And yes, politics is a bunch of games you have to know how to wheel and deal so you keep what you really want. The problem is still the pork - too much stuff gets tossed into bills that shouldn't be included - stuff that has nothing to do with the main bill, but gets tossed in there anyway so someone can say, "see? I passed this for my people back home who put me here." And all that pork adds to the costs of everything - the president needs line item veto - but that's a REAL pipe dream. Pork isn't "good" exactly, but its not the scourge some people make it out to be. The vast majority of the countries debt problems are rooted in three things: Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, and the military. Even the most minor reforms in any of those three programs would do more to erase debt than any amount of pork elimination, but those are really hard to make cuts to without getting a ton of senior citizen voters angry. As such most of the fights and arguments about spending are usually made in regards to these small, albeit more visible, programs and expenditures that don't really make up a very large percentage of the budget. That doesn't mean pork and waste shouldn't be snuffed out when they're found, but I don't think they're the root problem at all, and frankly it's often a necessary evil in order to get votes for other things that are in the interest of the greater good. |
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Post by Ramplate on Sept 27, 2015 18:51:49 GMT -5
Healthcare 22%,Pensions 20%,Education 15%, and Defense 13% are the biggest draws on the budget, yes. Welfare is only 7% but everyone gripes about that one lol. Yes it is hard to cut. www.usgovernmentspending.com/year_spending_2015USbt_16bs2n#usgs302Baby boomers are getting older and that makes the first two very large. Education is important and so is defense - but things could be much more efficiently run (as they can always be run better) and I think that's part of what Sanders would like to do - try something different. Ok so in 1996 pork barrel spending was only 1% of the total budget - but that's still $29 billion and nothing to sneeze at. (other figures I saw said it can get up to 1.1%) Another thing that my father used to hate -- he used to work for the US Soil Conservation Service, and every time a government agency makes out their yearly budget to submit, they would rush out and spend money on almost anything so they wouldn't finish the year under budget - because that would be their next year's budget would be cut because they didn't spend it all that year. With a system like that you get stuff like desks and chairs and other office equipment that no one really needs, and you rent a huge warehouse to store it all in so that eats up even more of the dollars you didn't spend. Government is also great at empire building. Government Employee A hires a staff to make himself more important because he has all these people working for him, and some of them in turn hire staff to make them more important because of all the other people working under them etc, etc,...(more important = "see all these people are counting on me - if you fire me, they all lose their jobs too.") And as we see with that county clerk who is stepping on other people's rights because she claims they're violating her religious freedom by getting married - she can't be fired because she was elected. There are also other people in government who can't be fired - I once saw a news program where this person was so bad at their job, they transferred him (because they couldn't fire him) and there he was sitting in an elevator pushing floor buttons for people - at his full government salary - because they couldn't fire him. Oh, and while I'm on a roll - ever see Senator Proxmire's lists of ridiculous things government has funded? content.wisconsinhistory.org/cdm/ref/collection/tp/id/70852 |
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Post by RedVader on Sept 27, 2015 22:37:38 GMT -5
Bernie looks older then McCain or our oldest president Ronald Reagan.
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Post by Ramplate on Sept 28, 2015 6:10:49 GMT -5
So?
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Sept 28, 2015 10:04:49 GMT -5
Anyone catch 60 Minutes last night? It was their season premier and they rolled out big gun interviews with Putin, Trump, and a segment on El Chapo's escape. One thing you can say about Trump, he's dead serious about being president. The annoying thing is that he truly believes that everyone will do business with him, that he can impose tougher taxes and sanctions on anyone who doesn't play ball with him, and that Putin will listen to him. All this because he says it will happen. The anchor grilled him pretty well on all of this and Trump's response was always the same, essentially saying they will do it because he's Donald Trump. He also highlighted a tax plan that sounded very un-Republican which included the lower income class not paying any taxes at all (which is silly because they don't pay taxes already, they receive money so it likely would have little impact)and stated that he would challenge Wall Street and big business to hold more accountability financially and raise THEIR taxes, so we'll see how that's received by the party. To be honest, what he said wasn't bad, but it sounded naive and unrealistic. And again, it didn't sound very Republican.
Putin's interview was even more interesting, especially his comments on the situation in Syria. I don't like Putin, I think he's a lying autocrat and his social stances are awful at best, but he did have some good points on foreign policies and Russia's involvement in global affairs and there's no denying that even if you don't like the man, he's certainly no dummy. It was worth a watch to anyone interested.
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Ramplate
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Post by Ramplate on Sept 28, 2015 10:41:31 GMT -5
I didn't catch that, but I did see an article about his big plans - he's certainly full of himself, and yeah pretty unrealistic about the "Because I say so" plans.
And quite a bit of what he was talking about is already in place and for the most part, how it works anyway.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Sept 28, 2015 11:26:27 GMT -5
Right, and while I agree that sometimes it's absolutely necessary to take a hard stance with other countries I think Trump is delusional to think that pounding his fists and threatening other countries and big businesses with higher tax rates is going to make them cave to his demands. For example, he wants China since they're really North Korea's only ally to take a harder stance with them. Which is fine, but Trump also wants to combat China's business model that no one can compete with due to their cheap labor and quality by heavily taxing their products in order to create an even playing field. Which is also fine, but if I'm China, whom we already have an iffy relationship with, why would I want to help America and talk to North Korea about changing things when America is heavily taxing our products? You're going to negatively impact my economy and you expect me to impose trading sanctions on North Korea, whom we are basically the ONLY trading partners with? Why would they do this? Because Trump demands it? This is what the 60 Minutes anchor was essentially picking at, because while it all sounds great no one is going to submit to this because it only benefits America. Trump needs a reality check. He says well China loves me I do big business with them so they'll listen to me. That may be true, but negotiating hotel space and Chinese banking in his buildings is a lot different from imposing heavy taxes on their products and demanding that they sanction their trade with North Korea. If it was this easy we would've done all of this a long time ago.
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Ramplate
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Post by Ramplate on Sept 28, 2015 12:08:51 GMT -5
 Yeah pissing people off is not an effective foreign policy China is in an economic slump at the moment so it may be possible to do something with/about them - but like Drac says - final results will be the watered down version even if Trump does it. I see what was done with the trade agreement recently but, that doesn't help us now, it may help eventually. Sanders was against it for that reason and our work force needs a push now rather than later
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Ramplate
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Post by Ramplate on Sept 29, 2015 16:48:25 GMT -5
"Trying to eliminate Saddam .. would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. Apprehending him was probably impossible ... We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq ...there was no viable "exit strategy" we could see, violating another of our principles. Furthermore, we had been self-consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post-Cold War world. Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the United Nations' mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression that we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the United States could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land."
George Bush Senior
I guess his son never read that
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Ramplate
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Post by Ramplate on Oct 2, 2015 9:51:55 GMT -5
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Post by Neverending on Oct 13, 2015 12:39:05 GMT -5
Donald Trump is hosting SNL on November 7.
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Post by Neverending on Oct 14, 2015 11:50:12 GMT -5
The press seems to think that Hillary Clinton won the debate last night. What do ya'll think?  |
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Oct 14, 2015 13:12:01 GMT -5
Sanders has raised over a million bucks since last night. That seems to indicate he did pretty well.
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Post by Neverending on Oct 14, 2015 13:15:35 GMT -5
Sanders has raised over a million bucks since last night. That seems to indicate he did pretty well. He's gonna be on Bill Maher on Friday. Hillary refused to go on Bill Maher during the 2012 elections. |
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Post by Neverending on Oct 16, 2015 21:17:09 GMT -5
thebtskinkWatch Bill Maher interview Bernie Sanders. I'm sure it'll be on YouTube within the hour.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Oct 17, 2015 0:23:23 GMT -5
Did he take Bernie to task for being completely full of shit?
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Oct 17, 2015 0:32:29 GMT -5
Sigh. He didn't.
Bernie Sanders candidacy is the result of the participant trophy generation coming home to roost.
I would vote.for Trump over him. And Trump is a shitbag asshat.
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Post by Doomsday on Oct 17, 2015 0:46:12 GMT -5
Sigh. He didn't. Bernie Sanders candidacy is the result of the participant trophy generation coming home to roost. I would vote.for Trump over him. And Trump is a shitbag asshat. Well when your platform is 'everything is free' then yeah, you're going to get those kinds of people backing you. |
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Post by Ramplate on Oct 17, 2015 8:11:31 GMT -5
Everything is free? That's not his platform.
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Yeah pissing people off is not an effective foreign policy
