PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Jan 4, 2022 16:50:04 GMT -5
This is the same movie that features Paul Giamatti hamming it the fuck up as Rhino for about 2 collective minutes, has its main villain get transformed into their state by way of falling into a vat of electric eels, has said villain later utter the line "Don't you know? I'm Electro!" in complete seriousness, Garfield's Spider-Man buying flu medicine in-costume at a pharmacy while also wearing a beanie and scarf -- among other things -- so yeah, it's trying to be cheesy. But it also balances things out with a more serious/emotional side concerning the romance and Peter's emotional arc that culminates the way it needs to. So it's also trying to be an earnest, yet tragic, love story and succeeds at being both, in my opinion. Which is to say it has wild tonal inconsistencies... Not so much in my eyes, but regardless...it's still a wildly entertaining movie.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Jan 4, 2022 17:11:56 GMT -5
I did like how they handled Gwen's death and aftermath.
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frankyt
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Post by frankyt on Jan 4, 2022 17:32:16 GMT -5
Whatever happened to Marc Webb?
I didn't think amazing Spiderman 2 was quite terrible enough to completely lose all movie credibility... But seems like that happened.
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Jan 4, 2022 18:01:22 GMT -5
Whatever happened to Marc Webb? I didn't think amazing Spiderman 2 was quite terrible enough to completely lose all movie credibility... But seems like that happened. He directed a small movie with Chris Evans called Gifted and some television episodes like the pilot of CBS's Limitless series. But he's currently attached to direct a new live-action Snow White for Disney.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Jan 4, 2022 18:07:08 GMT -5
His music video resume is bizarre.
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IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Jan 4, 2022 18:14:16 GMT -5
Whatever happened to Marc Webb? I didn't think amazing Spiderman 2 was quite terrible enough to completely lose all movie credibility... But seems like that happened. I don't know man, it was pretty bad
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jan 4, 2022 18:19:50 GMT -5
I still haven't seen either of his Spider-Man movies. These are movies that shouldn't exist and if anyone tells you they are somehow "redeemed" by No Way Home don't believe them. The movies are trash but Garfield got a second shot. He doesn’t play a badass sk8er boi in No Way Home. Whatever happened to Marc Webb? I didn't think amazing Spiderman 2 was quite terrible enough to completely lose all movie credibility... But seems like that happened. He’s directing Snow White starring Rachel Zegler (Maria from West Side Story) and Gal Gadot.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Jan 4, 2022 19:26:46 GMT -5
The best thing I can say about The Amazing Spider-Man movies is they really put into perspective how good the Raimi films are.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jan 4, 2022 23:32:54 GMT -5
The best thing I can say about The Amazing Spider-Man movies is they really put into perspective how good the Raimi films are.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Jan 5, 2022 10:03:39 GMT -5
The best thing I can say about The Amazing Spider-Man movies is they really put into perspective how good the Raimi films are. I seem to recall Doug making some sort of argument about TASM being the more adult-oriented series while the Raimi films were guilty pleasures. I might be misremembering but if I'm right than that fucking sucks.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jan 20, 2022 15:33:27 GMT -5
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Jan 20, 2022 16:07:32 GMT -5
Hmmm, I did catch up with season three recently and I am a Nielson home... you're welcome Charlie Cox.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jan 21, 2022 7:49:02 GMT -5
Hmmm, I did catch up with season three recently and I am a Nielson home... you're welcome Charlie Cox.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jan 27, 2022 10:35:03 GMT -5
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Feb 4, 2022 0:18:49 GMT -5
I thought this was pretty lousy.
And before this gets people calling me a hater or whatever, I'm on record as liking the other MCU Spider-Man movies. Frankly I thought this was a step down. The whole movie feels like it's just laying track to get to this fan-fiction esque crossover and then when it finally delivers it's one middling fight scene at the statue of liberty. The Sinister Six (Ferocious Five?) come together for the first time on film and...hang around the condo for a bit. There's not any effort to craft iconic visuals surrounding this galaxy bending team-up. Is there even a shot where all five appear together at once? Other then in the background of Strange's dungeon?
I'm not immune to nostalgic charm. It was nice to see Willem, Tobey and Alfred again (and Dafoe definitely came to play) but they also aren't really doing anything to expand or grow the characters. Which doesn't help with the whole movie feeling like fan fiction.
It's also not necessairly great that we're constantly reminded of the Raimi films and a time when Spider-Man movies were made by a real filmmaker with a personality and visual style. NWH has a couple of decent moments but they're few and far between. Most of the movie has the same lifeless grey look that the rest of the MCU has. Even the action scenes are kinda mid. Goblin ripping ass at the midpoint was good but I honestly think the highlight was the fight with Strange in the Mirrorverse.
As for the ending, it's interesting and handled well, but I also have trouble taking consequences in the MCU seriously at this point. Nothing matters long term. It also feels like a reset for Sony to wrest creative control back from Marvel but, for it to take three movies for Peter to learn "with great power comes great responsibility", that feels like a waste.
I don't know. It was alright in parts bit I think as the hype dies down and the surprises wear off this movie's reputation is gonna slip.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Feb 4, 2022 0:52:53 GMT -5
I thought this was pretty lousy.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Feb 4, 2022 1:00:46 GMT -5
I thought this was pretty lousy. A movie which gathers all of Spider-Man's greatest villains should be about something a little cooler than "we need to cure them of their superpowers which will also make them not evil".
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Post by Neverending on Feb 4, 2022 1:33:30 GMT -5
"we need to cure them of their superpowers which will also make them not evil".
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Feb 4, 2022 7:35:45 GMT -5
"we need to cure them of their superpowers which will also make them not evil". When a McGuffin can magically rewrite character motivation and define villainy exclusively as external factors like powers then it's a shit McGuffin.
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Post by Neverending on Feb 4, 2022 10:41:40 GMT -5
When a McGuffin can magically rewrite character motivation and define villainy exclusively as external factors like powers then it's a shit McGuffin.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Feb 4, 2022 10:49:45 GMT -5
I don't know why I even bother responding.
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Post by Neverending on Feb 4, 2022 11:01:01 GMT -5
I don't know why I even bother responding.
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Fanible
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Post by Fanible on Feb 5, 2022 16:28:23 GMT -5
Interestingly enough, that issue/complaint is actually one of the main reasons I didn't care so much for the original Spider-Man films, where the majority of all the "bad guys" were actually good guys who were misunderstood and/or unlucky. That's okay for a plotline now and again, but I found it odd going on three, four, five times in a row. If anything, this movie just expanded upon that oddity that already existed thanks to those movies.
I mean, what genuine bad guys did we have? Venom and Rhino? I guess maybe the Goblin from ASM2. Of course, none of whom were in this film.
It is a little convenient that not a single one remained bad for the sake of being bad (convenience, power, money, etc), but that's the way most of them were. Electro was probably the most likely otherwise, and technically he remained so. You know they weren't going to let it stay that way till the bitter end, but he was the only one whose "fix" wasn't exactly making him "not evil". If anything, it was merely removing/toning down his power, which he was only going along with because that was better than death. There was no other upside for him.
And it's for this reason why I like Tom Holland's SM films better, and why I didn't mind having the misunderstood/unlucky bad guys in his third outing, because that element hadn't existed in his prior films. Vulture and Mysterio were straight-up bad guys, in it for power, money, revenge.
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scottysair
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Post by scottysair on Feb 5, 2022 17:39:09 GMT -5
Interestingly enough, that issue/complaint is actually one of the main reasons I didn't care so much for the original Spider-Man films, where the majority of all the "bad guys" were actually good guys who were misunderstood and/or unlucky. That's okay for a plotline now and again, but I found it odd going on three, four, five times in a row. If anything, this movie just expanded upon that oddity that already existed thanks to those movies. I mean, what genuine bad guys did we have? Venom and Rhino? I guess maybe the Goblin from ASM2. Of course, none of whom were in this film. It is a little convenient that not a single one remained bad for the sake of being bad (convenience, power, money, etc), but that's the way most of them were. Electro was probably the most likely otherwise, and technically he remained so. You know they weren't going to let it stay that way till the bitter end, but he was the only one who's "fix" wasn't exactly making him "not evil". If anything, it was merely removing/toning down his power, which he was only going along with because that was better than death. There was no other upside for him. And it's for this reason why I like Tom Holland's SM films better, and why I didn't mind having the misunderstood/unlucky bad guys in his third outing, because that element hadn't existed in his prior films. Vulture and Mysterio were straight-up bad guys, in it for power, money, revenge. He is! He will play The Amazing Spider-Man 3 movie. Will he ever consider it? www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/1210607-tom-holland-i-would-love-to-see-the-amazing-spider-man-3
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Feb 14, 2022 20:45:31 GMT -5
Coming to Spider-Man: No Way Home for the first time in early February is quite the experience. I did my best to avoid spoilers, but after about a week people generally stopped caring about trying to be coy. By the time I found my way in a theater, I knew Andrew and Tobey would play a major role, knew Aunt May was gonna be killed by Green Goblin, and even knew the movie was gonna end with MJ and Ned (and the rest of the world) having their memory of Peter erased. That's a bit disappointing, but maybe it's also beneficial. I'm not reacting to the reveals themselves, but the storytelling, aided still by the fact that I'm seeing it in a theater of three total people not packed by fanboys screaming at every cameo and reference. I don't have to watch it as an event, but just as a movie. And as a movie, I thought this was pretty lousy and easily the worst of the MCU Spider-Man entries.
It would be absurd to complain about fan-service in No Way Home. The whole movie's raison d'être is to deliver fan-service. But it does bug me how flimsy the pretenses are. Put bluntly, it's incredibly weak that the catalyst for the story is an ill-advised spell immediately botched because the characters don't think to talk about brainwashing the entire world through magic before just jumping into it. This feels especially out of character for Dr. Strange who placed so much emphasis on preserving the integrity of the magical world in Infinity War. The middle act of the film is all setup, essentially just gathering the pieces - Spider-Men and Spider-Villains - to eventually deliver the big explosive crossover event the film is built on. And when it finally comes it's one fairly middling action scene at the Statue of Liberty. There aren't any memorable or interesting uses of powers nor much in the way of emotional stakes until The Goblin shows up. It's also pretty disappointing that we don't actually see The Sinister Six - or, I guess The Sinister Five - actually work as a complete unit fighting against the Spider-Man. Instead they enter the final battle in small pairs instead of all at once for no discernible reason.
In general the villains here are a major disappointment. It's kind of fun to see The Green Goblin and Doctor Octopus back again and Willem Dafoe definitely brought his working boots, but there's only so much to actually work with. The group on the whole has no real motivation (individual members actually want contradictory things) and just wait around until they're needed for the next action or story beat. The second act of the film is spent largely just hanging around in a condo while Peter and Norman do the important things. There is also an astounding lack of visual imagination in bringing these rouges together for the first time on-screen. Jon Watts doesn't even try to capture a sense of iconography or grandeur in their presentation, in fact I'm not sure there are any shots which show all five villains in the same frame, outside of in the background of Strange's visually indistinct dungeon. Who needs ensemble framing with dynamic lighting and expressive camera angles when flat medium shots will do just fine?
Then there's the fact that the resolution of the conflict depends on the heroes curing the villains of their superpowers who then immediately turn good. Which I hate. It is insulting to these characters to suggest that their motivations and personality are rooted entirely in external factors which can easily be switched on or off. And what does that say philosophically about superheroes and villains? That goodness or evil are all about power and ability, not the convictions of one's character? I do not accept that. It isn't robotic arms or electricity powers that make the villains evil anymore than it's web-swinging which makes Spider-Man a hero. It all comes down to the choices the characters made. Not the abilities, but what they did with them. This is a fundamental cornerstone of superheroes and for No Way Home to reduce that for a simplistic cure to fuel their fan-service plot is a gross missing of the point.
None of this is to say I was totally immune to No Way Home's charms. The core cast remain a likable enough bunch and a handful of action scenes like the Goblin's apartment rampage or the battle in the Mirrorverse do deliver the escapist thrills we've come to want from Marvel. But these moments are fleeting. Taken as a whole, Spider-Man: No Way Home is a disappointment, a film eager to deliver a nostalgic dopamine hit but lacking the imagination to give that crossover texture. And even when viewed purely as a spectacle, the results are middling. Move past the excitement of the novelty and what does No Way Home really offer? Not a lot, and I suspect time will tell as much. The further away we get from packed theaters screaming at every cameo and big reveal, the more the film will need to rely on its own filmmaking strengths, and the more glaringly obvious its failings will become.
C
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