Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Nov 25, 2014 11:33:32 GMT -5
Recently, Doomsday re-visited Rocky V and brought a new perspective into it. And although I didn't agree with his new opinion, it was a reminder that sometimes we need to give bad movies a second chance. We often re-watch good movies to find out if they hold up, but we rarely go back to bad movies and check if they're still bad. So... since I have nothing better to do, I'm gonna take a journey into the abyss and see which movies were wrongfully accused of being crap. First up: THE DEAD POOL (1988) "You're shit out of luck."Unlike PG Cooper who doesn't believe that Clint Eastwood made movies before 1992, I grew up on Dirty Harry and other classic Eastwood movies. So I'm very aware of why people disliked The Dead Pool from an historical perspective. For starters, as the last Dirty Harry movie in the series, it did nothing special. There was no closure whatsoever. There was no "WE ARE FAMILY" moment like in Lethal Weapon 4. It was just another Dirty Harry movie and that left a bad taste in people's mouth. And secondly, there was no controversy. The Dirty Harry series was, and is, famous for tackling hot topic issues. But here, it played it safe. Or at least that was the perspective back in the day. Watching it now, it's obvious that The Dead Pool was ahead of its time. It tackled media sensationalism and a celebrity obsessed culture before most people even realized those things were happening. The Dead Pool is essentially The King of Comedy of action movies. Also, I find the concept of the death pool to be amusing because that's something that's commonly done on the Internet these days, but in 1988, it must have seemed really weird. And finally, having Jim Carrey and Liam Neeson in early roles is very interesting. In Jim Carrey's case, it does more harm than good because his character is totally campy and ridiculous and it dates the movie because he's playing a fictionalized version of Axel Rose. But in Liam Neeso's case, it actually enhances the movie's appeal. 20 years after The Dead Pool, Neeson re-invented his career by taking Eastwood's place as "the old man action hero" in Taken. Seeing him stand next to Eastwood is strange foreshadowing. So overall, I would argue that The Dead Pool is actually a pretty good movie. Eastwood continues to be awesome as Dirty Harry. The action scenes are... unique. If you've seen the movie, you know what I'm talking about. And I do like the storyline of a killer using a "death pool" as inspiration for his crimes. So despite my initial objection, I'd argue that The Dead Pool is better than The Enforcer and neck-and-neck with Sudden Impact. B+ |
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Nov 25, 2014 11:52:41 GMT -5
Unlike PG Cooper who doesn't believe that Clint Eastwood made movies before 1992, I grew up on Dirty Harry and other classic Eastwood movies. Eastwood didn't direct Dirty Harry... or three of the five sequels... including The Dead Pool. |
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Nov 25, 2014 12:03:00 GMT -5
The Dead Pool is fine as a movie, it doesn't have any fatal flaws. Although The Dead Pool was a Dirty Harry movie like you said it wasn't special and didn't really bring anything new to the table. The thing about the Dirty Harry movies is that Harry is more or less in the same spot throughout the series, he doesn't really develop (see Martin Riggs as a contrast). On a base level I think people were tiring of Clint Eastood at that point in his career. He was pushing 60 and although he was still a box office draw he was taking roles that seemed like they were meant for someone half his age. Eastwood had some hits in the 80s (Pale Rider) but some misses too (Pink Cadillac, City Heat). He had been a director for a while (not The Dead Pool) but it wasn't until a few years later that he was really considered to be a great filmmaker rather than just a movie star who directed a lot of his own films, some sillier than others. But yeah The Dead Pool isn't a bad movie, forgettable maybe but certainly not awful.
I do enjoy however that anywhere Harry Callahan goes he runs into people committing some strange crime with machine guns like robbing a grocery store, coffee shop or in this case a Chinese restaurant.
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Knerys
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Post by Knerys on Nov 25, 2014 12:08:57 GMT -5
I approve of this thread idea.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Nov 25, 2014 12:40:56 GMT -5
Eastwood didn't direct Dirty Harry... or three of the five sequels... including The Dead Pool. It was a joke. Also... Clint Eastwood feuded with Ted Post and became "the ghost director" on Magnum Force. He was the director of The Enforcer all throughout pre-production but had to drop out in order to focus on the post-production for Josey Wales, so he hired his assistant to take the reign. And he's an uncredited 2nd Unit Director on the original Dirty Harry. Let's also not forget that all 5 movies were produced by Eastwood's company, Malpaso, and he had final cut on all the movies except for the original. The thing about the Dirty Harry movies is that Harry is more or less in the same spot throughout the series, he doesn't really develop (see Martin Riggs as a contrast). Dirty Harry had a lot more charm and "everyman" quality in the first two movies. It's in Part 3 & 4 where he's "the angry cop" that people mostly associate with the character. And in Part 5, he's like a tamer version of the pissed off Dirty Harry. But I get what you mean. On paper, the character never really changes. That's essentially true in Tightrope. That movie could have been a classic, but Eastwood's age got in the way. And let's not forget Firefox. Oh... man... how cringe-inducing it is to watch Eastwood - in his 50's - as a hot shot jet pilot. |
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Nov 25, 2014 13:02:03 GMT -5
The Dead Pool is fun in a guilty pleasure sort of way, but it's pretty damn stupid. Whereas the early films had some level of grit and integrity, The Dead People is over the top, ridiculous non-sense, and it barely resembles what the series meant in the 1970s. It's a pitiful end to the series.
For the record, I've seen a lot of Eastwood directed films pre-Unforgiven, including:
The Outlaw Josey Wales
High Plains Drifter
Pale Rider
Sudden Impact
Heartbreak Ridge
The Gauntlet
The Rookie
Firefox
Honkytonk Man
Bronco Billy
Tightrope (Richard Tuggle is credited, but Eastwood allegedly did most of the work)
None of these are on Unforgiven's level, which is why I consider it a breakthrough. I do love The Outlaw Josey Wales, and a lot of these films do have their moments (especially High Plains Drifter and Pale Rider) but they're no Unforgiven.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Nov 25, 2014 13:26:30 GMT -5
The Dead Pool is fun in a guilty pleasure sort of way, but it's pretty damn stupid. Whereas the early films had some level of grit and integrity, The Dead People is over the top, ridiculous non-sense, and it barely resembles what the series meant in the 1970s. It's a pitiful end to the series. I guess you can put it that way, but it's still better than The Enforcer. Unforgiven is overrated. I'll take the purity of High Plains Drifter and The Outlaw Josey Wales over the Oscar-bait of Unforgiven. Plus, the whole "revisionist" reputation of Unforgiven is silly. John Ford's Liberty Valance had already tackled the issue and gave it the definitive answer. "When legend becomes fact, print the legend." |
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Nov 25, 2014 13:48:49 GMT -5
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Nov 25, 2014 13:49:40 GMT -5
Unforgiven isn't Oscar bait and it sure as shit isn't overrated.
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Post by Doomsday on Nov 26, 2014 14:00:50 GMT -5
For some reason I glanced over the photo NE posted of the Dead Pool and just now noticed it's Eastwood standing with that massive harpoon gun. Such a ridiculously awesome shot. You know the writers were sitting there thinking of the most insane weapon they could write in to dispatch the bad guy.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Nov 26, 2014 14:39:52 GMT -5
For some reason I glanced over the photo NE posted of the Dead Pool and just now noticed it's Eastwood standing with that massive harpoon gun. Such a ridiculously awesome shot. You know the writers were sitting there thinking of the most insane weapon they could write in to dispatch the bad guy. Which is why it's probably the worst Dirty Harry film. It's need to be big, ridiculous, and "awesome". That's not what the series is about. |
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Nov 26, 2014 14:50:51 GMT -5
From Eastwood to... X-MEN ORIGINS: WOLVERINE (2009) I've been saying this for the past 14 years: Hugh Jackman HAS to be Clint Eastwood's illegitimate son. Also, if Eastwood dies without making a movie with Jackman, I will be fucking pissed off. It's bad enough that Eastwood never did a movie with Charles Bronson or Steve McQueen or even James Coburn. Fuck you, Eastwood. Get your shit together.Anyway... back in 2009, my reaction to the Wolverine solo movie was indifference. The movie is obviously not good enough to defend, and considering that 2009 gave us Paul Blart: Mall Cop, it's also not bad enough to trash on the Internet. But as we all know, I'm alone in that opinion because - man - people REALLY hated this fucking movie. They were talking shit about it as soon as it was leaked on the Internet. There was so much negativity that Fox News had to fire its own movie critic at the request of the parent company. Yikes! 5 years later, I don't think I can say anything to change people's opinion because my own opinion hasn't changed. I've seen the movie twice since 2009. In 2011 before First Class and this year before Days of Future Past. And it's still the same shit. The only new insight I can offer is that First Class should have preceded Wolverine. I know that's technically impossible because Fox's contract with Marvel forces them to release an X-Men movie every 4 years and First Class wasn't ready till Matthew Vaughn signed on, so Wolverine had to take the bullet. But thematically speaking, Wolverine makes a lot more sense if you acknowledge that the story takes place after First Class. Let's go back to 2005 for a moment. Fox's plan at the time was to release two origin movies: Magneto and Wolverine. Magneto eventually evolved into First Class. And since these two movies were developed together, they share the same point-of-view. First Class was about the X-Men joining the U.S. government in an effort to stop Kevin Bacon from launching World War III, but of course, the relationship didn't work and both groups went their separate ways. And in the Wolverine movie, the U.S. government orders the military to have their own X-Men. When you think about it that way, Wolverine makes sense and it also becomes a bit more tolerable. But since there was no First Class in 2009, this aspect of the story didn't really register in people's minds. They were focused on the actual origin story of Wolverine instead of the big picture. But... as I said... I don't think this will change anyone's overall opinion of the movie. The best way to describe Wolverine is by using the expression, "it is what it is." C |
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Nov 26, 2014 15:01:45 GMT -5
Check this out:
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Nov 26, 2014 15:10:29 GMT -5
That trailer is pretty cool.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Nov 26, 2014 17:11:16 GMT -5
That trailer is pretty cool. I'm disappointed. No commentary on Wolverine? At all.  |
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Nov 26, 2014 17:35:36 GMT -5
I rewatched it before Days of Future Past. Just as terrible as I remembered.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Nov 26, 2014 17:53:21 GMT -5
I rewatched it before Days of Future Past. Just as terrible as I remembered. Give us specifics. |
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Post by Jibbs on Nov 26, 2014 19:30:59 GMT -5
My Letterboxd review:
X-Men Origins: Wolverine
This movie wasn't so much "bad" as it was completely uninteresting. And it doesn't help that Wolverine has never been what you'd call a complex character. He runs around, gets pissed, and then stabs people; I've met plenty of people like that.
The movie might have been passable with some good action, but even those scenes are poorly directed and edited. Even the CGI is fake-y. Even the post-credits sequence is a joke.
*.5/****
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Nov 26, 2014 20:25:12 GMT -5
My letterboxd review
Just as bad as I remember it being. X-Men Origins: Wolverine's goal is to explain Wolverine's history, and they largely do. Unfortunately, the filmmakers make it the least interesting and anti-climactic history ever. The answers to any questions we had are either uninspired or just dull. I think a big part of the problem was the whole kidnapping mutants storyline. In addition to just being poorly conceived, it just clutters the film, which should have solely focused on the title character. However if this was the film's biggest problem, they'd probably be okay. Unfortunately, Origins is plagued with inept filmmaking and a very shoddy script. Even the action scenes here are range from being really uninspired to just plain sucking, and the comedy is just lame. Also, putting in Gambit and Blob in the film was purely fan-service, and bad fan-service at that.
So what do I like the film? Well, Hugh Jackman is still good, and I actually really like Liev Schreiber as Sabertooth. I also think the film fits so poorly within the continuity of the series it's easy to disregard entirely. The film also isn't as frustrating as X-Men: The Last Stand, if only because it's not bringing beloved characters to lame conclusions. Still, this is easily the worst film of the series.
1 star out of 5.
D-
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Nov 26, 2014 20:40:02 GMT -5
Wolverine has never been what you'd call a complex character.  |
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Post by Jibbs on Nov 26, 2014 21:30:38 GMT -5
And?
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Nov 26, 2014 21:45:11 GMT -5
They should have taken the opening sequence of Sabretooth and Wolverine throughout history and made THAT the movie. In a movie that's overall dull, that sequence is completely rad.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Nov 26, 2014 21:53:03 GMT -5
They should have taken the opening sequence of Sabretooth and Wolverine throughout history and made THAT the movie. In a movie that's overall dull, that sequence is completely rad. Amen, brother. |
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Nov 26, 2014 22:03:21 GMT -5
That scene is neat, though I don't think the execution is quite as good as the idea of it. Still a strong scene though.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Nov 26, 2014 22:15:00 GMT -5
That scene is neat, though I don't think the execution is quite as good as the idea of it. Still a strong scene though. You're awfully harsh about the only Canadian superhero. |
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