Nilade
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Post by Nilade on Jul 28, 2019 16:29:26 GMT -5
There are a few gripes I have with the movie, one of them being that it seemed like Tarantino wanted to squeeze as much in as he possibly could that had little to no bearing on the story (story?) and was discarded just as quickly. Brad Pitt killing his wife for example, it's mentioned a few times but didn't have much of an effect on his character or direction of the movie. If it had never been brought up would it have made any difference? No, none whatsoever. Maybe it was a nod toward Natalie Wood? Maybe? Who knows but it's a plot thread that seemed like it was pretty important but wasn't at all. And that's just one. Also, I really hated the Kurt Russell narration at the end of the movie. It came off as so lazy which is surprising given that it's a Tarantino movie. I remember sitting there thinking 'this is the build-up, we know what we're hurdling toward but I feel nothing because we're being told that the two guys are getting drunk and that it's really hot in LA and that they had to take a cab.' There was no sense of suspense or tension or foreboding or dread or anything. Considering how Tarantino loves using soundtracks in his movies that would have been so much more effective rather than having Kurt tell us exactly what we're watching. It was almost as if someone else entirely directed that sequence and it really sucked the life out of the end of the film. The only thing saving it was the as-to-be-expected Tarantino ultra violence which was admittedly pretty funny. Don't worry Neverending , people are giving this a pass right now because it's Tarantino but they'll come around. The same thing happened with Hateful Eight when that came out too but we all know a few years on that it's not a very good movie. I wouldn't call OUATIH a bad movie but it's not great and it certainly in no way compares to Tarantino's other films. Not even close. I still like Hateful Eight. I was disappointed when I saw it in the theater, but it grew on me with repeat viewings at home.
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Jul 28, 2019 16:37:38 GMT -5
I had issues with Hateful Eight at first but overall I would have given it a thumbs up. After watching it a couple more times over the years my issues just became more glaring. That's my fear with OUATIH. Tarantino's movies by and large have great rewatchability but to me Hateful Eight isn't one of them. I think OUATIH will be even more off the mark.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jul 28, 2019 16:51:40 GMT -5
Brad Pitt killing his wife for example, it's mentioned a few times but didn't have much of an effect on his character or direction of the movie. It’s there to establish his place in life. Not really. Tarantino fans are giving it a pass. Maybe some film snobs. But generally, the reaction has been very lukewarm. I think the movie is too “inside baseball” for most people.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Jul 28, 2019 18:26:06 GMT -5
Don't worry Neverending, people are giving this a pass right now because it's Tarantino but they'll come around. The same thing happened with Hateful Eight when that came out too but we all know a few years on that it's not a very good movie. I wouldn't call OUATIH a bad movie but it's not great and it certainly in no way compares to Tarantino's other films. Not even close. Who is this we you're refering to? I still love The Hateful Eight. And I don't think people are just giving this a pass because its Tarantino. For my part, I can say that I laughed hystetically throughout, with a couple scenes in particular really cracking me up. I also loved the cast, the theme of male friendship, and the way Tarantino mocks the Manson family. The movie also does a great job mocking the characters, but remaining sympathetic to them. Like, as much as the movie laughs at Rick Dalton, it also treats his fears of losing relevance with sincerity. You complain about certain elements not adding much to the overall plot, but it isn't a plot driven movie. It's pretty clear Tarantino was more content to make a hangout movie with a series of loosely connected vignettes which build to its ending rather than a tighter plot. That's fine if that isn't your bag but it's also by design. You ask why the detail about Cliff maybe killing his wife. Neverending already pointed out that it explains where he's at in life, but the scene with that reveal is also really funny in its own right. So what if it doesn't come back in the third act? It made for a funny scene and it helps flesh out the character. And I think you can say that about a lot of the movie. Not everything was needed strictly in terms of plot, but those details are fun and help flesh out the world and characters.
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Jul 28, 2019 18:34:25 GMT -5
Cliff living in a trailer eating Mac and cheese with his dog and being a washed up stunt man relegated to driving around a has-been movie star was more than enough to indicate where he was at in his life.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Jul 28, 2019 18:36:41 GMT -5
Cliff living in a trailer eating Mac and cheese with his dog and being a washed up stunt man relegated to driving around a has-been movie star was more than enough to indicate where he was at in his life. But the wife story helps explain why he's like that. And it's hilarious.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jul 28, 2019 18:44:29 GMT -5
Don't worry Neverending, people are giving this a pass right now because it's Tarantino but they'll come around. The same thing happened with Hateful Eight when that came out too but we all know a few years on that it's not a very good movie. I wouldn't call OUATIH a bad movie but it's not great and it certainly in no way compares to Tarantino's other films. Not even close. I can say that I laughed hystetically throughout, with a couple scenes in particular really cracking me up. I also loved the cast, the theme of male friendship, and the way Tarantino mocks the Manson family. The movie also does a great job mocking the characters, but remaining sympathetic to them. Like, as much as the movie laughs at Rick Dalton, it also treats his fears of losing relevance with sincerity. You’re not wrong. You can be loose and tight. If Sally Menke were still alive, I can guarantee you this would have had more momentum. I’ve been saying this since Django Unchained. Tarantino desperately needs a better editor.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jul 28, 2019 18:47:39 GMT -5
Cliff living in a trailer eating Mac and cheese with his dog and being a washed up stunt man relegated to driving around a has-been movie star was more than enough to indicate where he was at in his life. But he wasn’t washed-up per say. Clearly he can still kick ass. But I get what you’re saying. It would have been funnier if he was truly washed up and then adrenaline kicked in at the end to unleash the badass. That would have been more - surprising.
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Deexan
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Post by Deexan on Jul 28, 2019 19:00:32 GMT -5
So we're just gonna ignore that Leo and Pitt look nothing alike?
Ruined the whole movie.
(I haven't seen it yet.)
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Jul 28, 2019 21:14:29 GMT -5
Cliff living in a trailer eating Mac and cheese with his dog and being a washed up stunt man relegated to driving around a has-been movie star was more than enough to indicate where he was at in his life. But he wasn’t washed-up per say. Clearly he can still kick ass. But I get what you’re saying. It would have been funnier if he was truly washed up and then adrenaline kicked in at the end to unleash the badass. That would have been more - surprising. What I'm saying is you would think that a guy being a wife murderer would be a detail that has some bearing on something, anything. There are a thousand reasons why a stunt man might not be in demand but being a wife killer is specific and at least to me isn't a detail that can really be written off. Another thing I would have changed is the tire slashing scene. I think we all would have preferred to see Lena Dunham slash the tire with the same result.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jul 28, 2019 21:36:05 GMT -5
we all would have preferred to see Lena Dunham slash the tire with the same result. I need to re-watch that scene. Apparently, Kevin Smith’s daughter and Uma Thurman’s (Maya Hawke) are also in the movie. All I noticed was Dakota Fanning (?) and Lena Dunham who stuck out like a sore thumb. Also... why did whats-her-face from Leftovers (aka Ms. Hairy Pits) disappear from the movie? They spent so much time on her, only to abruptly end her arc? This is also where PG Cooper/ PhantomKnight need to realize this is lesser Tarantino. Go back to Pulp Fiction. That was also a series of vignettes. In that movie every character had a payoff. Here, characters just come & go with no rhythm or reason.
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Jul 28, 2019 21:48:02 GMT -5
I missed Maya Hawke but caught Smith’s daughter. Maybe she’ll be the talented one in the family.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Jul 28, 2019 22:21:36 GMT -5
we all would have preferred to see Lena Dunham slash the tire with the same result. I need to re-watch that scene. Apparently, Kevin Smith’s daughter and Uma Thurman’s (Maya Hawke) are also in the movie. All I noticed was Dakota Fanning (?) and Lena Dunham who stuck out like a sore thumb. Also... why did whats-her-face from Leftovers (aka Ms. Hairy Pits) disappear from the movie? They spent so much time on her, only to abruptly end her arc? Maya Hawke played Linda Kasabian, who was the family member who went to the family member who ran off instead of going into the murder. She did the same thing in real life and went on to be the key witness against everyone.
The character of Pussycat is largely in the film because they needed someone to interact with Booth and bring him out to the ranch and making it one of the actual killers would have been, a mistake, as such she doesn't come back. On a more thematic level her purpose is to show that Booth isn't entirely hostile towards the younger generations and also to get him the acid laced cigarette. Your complaints about the movie seem to revolve around the fact that it isn't a tightly scripted film in which everything comes together and, yeah, no shit. That obviously isn't what Tarantino was going for. Listing off scene after scene which doesn't have a specific story purpose is kind of missing the point.
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Pbar
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Post by Pbar on Jul 29, 2019 2:05:15 GMT -5
Neverending 's only argument seems to be "watch it a second time", because supposedly knowing how it ends will ruin it in re-watches. Of course it will. You’ll feel the runtime a lot more. All those Margot Robbie/Sharon Tate scenes are completely pointless. They only work in a first viewing because you expect her to be part of the finale. When this shit comes out on blu-ray, those will be the scenes in which you’ll find yourself on your phone. I've seen it twice. It doesn't. In fact, the ending works better on the second viewing because it fits thematically. Dracula has nailed it on this. This is going to get better with age.
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Nilade
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Post by Nilade on Jul 29, 2019 2:44:06 GMT -5
Of course it will. You’ll feel the runtime a lot more. All those Margot Robbie/Sharon Tate scenes are completely pointless. They only work in a first viewing because you expect her to be part of the finale. When this shit comes out on blu-ray, those will be the scenes in which you’ll find yourself on your phone. I've seen it twice. It doesn't. In fact, the ending works better on the second viewing because it fits thematically. Dracula has nailed it on this. This is going to get better with age. I'm with Drac and Pbar on this. I'm already itching to see it again.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Jul 29, 2019 7:57:51 GMT -5
I haven't seen it yet, but I wandered in here because I have the self control of a toddler.
Well, here comes binge drinking later this week to forget what I know.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jul 29, 2019 8:11:17 GMT -5
I haven't seen it yet, but I wandered in here because I have the self control of a toddler. Well, here comes binge drinking later this week to forget what I know. You should have known there would be foot fetish in your Tarantino movie.
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Jul 29, 2019 8:46:44 GMT -5
Neverending 's only argument seems to be "watch it a second time", because supposedly knowing how it ends will ruin it in re-watches. Of course it will. You’ll feel the runtime a lot more. All those Margot Robbie/Sharon Tate scenes are completely pointless. They only work in a first viewing because you expect her to be part of the finale. When this shit comes out on blu-ray, those will be the scenes in which you’ll find yourself on your phone. Au contraire. I firmly believe, much like Dracula and Pbar have been saying, this film will only get more rewarding every time -- much like The Hateful Eight. That film was an even richer experience for me upon a re-watch, so I'm clearly not a part of the "collective we" that Doomsday is talking about there. And I'm very much looking forward to future viewings of OATIH.
As PG Cooper has pointed out, Tarantino was more content here to make a loose hangout movie rather than one driven more strictly by plot. And that's more than perfectly fine with me, because he still created compelling characters that I vastly enjoyed and placed them in vignettes that had my complete attention and were very entertaining to boot. This is where you "need to realize" that, hey, this film (like literally every other film) is going to hit each of us differently. You and Doomsday didn't go for this one. That's fine. But maybe stop making assumptions about how those of us who DID enjoy this will feel later on down the road.
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donny
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Post by donny on Jul 29, 2019 9:56:53 GMT -5
I've seen it twice, so I can somewhat dispel the notion of not needing to see it more than once. I think with most of his movies, a second viewing doesn't hurt, if for no other reason, he packs so much into them that you don't always pick up in one sitting. I'm somewhere in the middle with the crowd here, as I can see both sides. There is a sense of urgency that was missing with this, Margot Robbie, while very good, felt slightly underutilized, and then you have the aforementioned Brad Pitt flashback, featuring his wife. All that being said, I still find myself coming back to this movie. There is something about this, that despite it's noticeable flaws, the movie sticks with you. And it did work better the second time around. You can chalk it up to being a Tarantino fan boy, but note that I'm not a huge fan of his movies post Inglorious. I don't love Django or Hateful. When you factor in his last 10 years of film making, namely Inglorious, the ending didn't surprise me at all. But maybe it's a little more open ended than I initially thought. Obviously we don't see Tate die, but Rick walking up to the house felt a bit ominous, almost as if he will be apart of a future Manson spree. Maybe I'm reading into that part too much, but still. I loved the scenes with Pitt/Leo, the world he created and the set design were beautifully constructed, and there were some great scenes. My favorite being Rick meeting the little girl on the set for the first time. Again, there are definitely flaws, but I think the acting from the main leads does a lot to help forget that. The plot is definitely more aimless than previous Tarantino outings, but that does seem to be the point. And I was much cooler with that the second time around. The Pitt thing with his wife is the thing that bothers me the most. I get it's purpose, as some of you have outlined already in this thread, but honestly, the placement of it in the film, coupled with the fact that it doesn't get discussed much again, felt a little off. I think the movie's better off without that moment. Maybe my enjoyment of this is more to do with it being a pretty lame summer at the movies and this being a bright spot, but man it still is pretty good.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jul 29, 2019 10:08:22 GMT -5
I’ll agree it’s better than Hateful and perhaps it’s better than Django in theory.
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donny
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Post by donny on Jul 29, 2019 10:39:59 GMT -5
Also, not for nothing, I can't get enough of this.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jul 29, 2019 11:59:42 GMT -5
Also, not for nothing, I can't get enough of this.
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donny
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Post by donny on Jul 29, 2019 13:57:19 GMT -5
Wolf dance is better for sure.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Jul 29, 2019 14:33:12 GMT -5
I'm glad we have both.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Jul 29, 2019 19:38:06 GMT -5
There are so many talented, unique, and visionary filmmakers that we've been graced with throughout cinema's history. We revere the auteur that can make movies that are undeniably their own, crafting a great piece of art and entertainment while showcasing signature traits and stylistic choices that viewers and imitators flock to. Perhaps no contemporary filmmaker carries the clout that Quentin Tarantino does when it comes to this idea of operating under the surface of simple genre pictures while making films that are anything but. It's not a western or a heist film; it's a Tarantino film through and through, for better or worse. Even the casual filmgoer is well versed in the trademark Tarantino-isms in his films from the sharp and long-winded dialogue to his colorful characters, and at times I wonder if we actually aren't giving filmmakers like Tarantino or a Wes Anderson enough credit for being so adept at creating films so uniquely theirs. Sure, their quirks aren't going to work for everyone and even outright alienate some, but in an age of bland and uninspired films being pumped out by studios and for hire directors, it's a thrill to walk into a movie like Once Upon a Time in Hollywood and know you're about to watch something better. Having said that, despite the lofty expectations I went into the film with, Tarantino's latest is certainly among his lesser efforts (of which even then are still very good movies) more akin to The Hateful Eight than what I had hoped would be more Pulp Fiction. And yet, even if Tarantino's Once Upon a Time in Hollywood isn't quite the masterwork it could have been, it's another strong entry in Tarantino's resume and another cinematic journey into the mind of a true auteur in every sense of the title that's impossible not to appreciate and admire.
Tarantino has always had an affinity for the cinema of the 1960s and 1970s, from the classics to the B-pictures and everything in-between, so it's not surprise that he's set his newest work in 1969 Hollywood. It was a time where the old Hollywood was giving way to unique filmmaking perspectives, movies that were more relevant and mirrored the current climate, and when the Hays Code had just been lifted and censorship in American cinema was, largely, lifted. It's a time of personal expression across the country, and that movement has now found its way to Hollywood, and everything feels artistically unbound and exciting. Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, fittingly, is a film that leans on its immense star power to tell its story. It largely focuses on Rick Dalton (Leonardo DiCaprio), a western television star who has seen his days as a leading man slipping away and is coming to grips with becoming a Hollywood irrelevant. Rick's best friend and stunt double, Cliff Booth (Brad Pitt), is mired in an even worse slump and bout with career depression as a stunt man that can no longer get consistent work to an odd and undercooked subplot involving him possibly murdering his wife on a boat in a sort of curious nod to Natalie Wood's death in the 1980s. Living next door to Rick is actual real-life movie star Sharon Tate (Margot Robbie), who represents the innocent basking in of all things peace and love that the 1960s has to offer. Tate doesn't have much of a narrative thread in the film though, and the majority of the run time is dedicated to Rick trying to reestablish his career and Cliff's run-ins with members of the Manson clan.
Aside from the climactic finale, there aren't many twists and turns or big moments that entirely stand out, but rather Tarantino is leaning on his A-listers to deliver a fun, breezy time for nearly three hours, a move that works and doesn't work despite great dialogue and performances to power it along. It's meandering but never uninteresting or dull, as it's easy to get swept up in the natural charms of DiCaprio, Pitt, and Robbie as they gleefully spout Tarantino's signature long-winded exchanges. Sure, things are happening, and those things are a lot of fun, but this is also a film that certainly feels like its lengthy running time and will undoubtedly try the patience of people expecting more Manson nastiness and less palling around by Rick and Cliff. But when looking back on the film, Tarantino is not going the conventional route here of presenting 1969 as the cynical end of free love for the impending dark nature the world really embodies, nor is he making any political statements about America, Hollywood as an industry, or living in hedonism and being naive to the harsh realities around them. No, Tarantino is purely basking in happy nostalgia here, nothing more, nothing less. This was the time when there were still real movie stars and still unbridled optimism that good people could change the world, and Tarantino is not interested in stepping outside of that bubble. It's odd that I keep coming back to the notion that Tarantino has played things safe here because it's just not a term I'd ever use for his work, but I think it does apply here. I enjoyed Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, but reflecting on the film and the direction it takes it's evident that Tarantino had the blueprint for something grander and more remarkable and opted not to pursue these routes. Obstacles are fairly easily overcome, the large supporting cast of notables like Al Pacino and Kurt Russell have undercooked characters, and it really doesn't even fully grapple with the idea of a fading star coming to terms with this crisis. Again, the blueprint is there, but it pains me to say that Tarantino, who has never been shy to be bold and to go for the exploitive, explosive fare, just doesn't steer much of this into the territory he could have. But then again not all films are plot driven, and to Tarantino's credit even the weaker scenes are never anything less than compelling and entertaining to watch. I have many issues with the film, but I also have a lot to admire about it as well, in particular Tarantino's ability to absolutely nail the aesthetic and exuberant feeling of being in 1969 Hollywood amidst its most glamorous inhabitants. This is an unabashed love letter to a bygone era, and that's really about it.
The twist ending is an interesting idea but also one that feels like a letdown as well. We're subjected to some hilariously cartoony violence and then an ending that's unexpected but does little more than to continue the rose-colored glasses approach to the 1960s that Tarantino has been peddling all film. It's almost like by changing history, Tarantino is looking to just keep letting the good times roll instead of focusing on the ramifications that Sharon Tate's murder had on signaling the end of this flower power mentality. It's just not as interesting an angle within a film that doesn't present a whole lot thematically divisive in the first place. It actually raised more questions for me than left me satisfied with the optimism Tarantino is displaying, but I can also understand why he'd go for the tasteful route (this is coming from the director who cites Ilsa: She-Wolf of the S.S. as one of his favorites) and not muck up the goodwill he's built up over the last two-and-a-half hours. I want to write more, but I don't really have much else to say. I have issues with the film, and yet I also really enjoyed it and had a great time being in Tarantino's world and seeing DiCaprio and Pitt feed off each other as well as they did. The film is full of Tarantino's encyclopedia for cinema flourishes from the spot-on recreation of 1950s and 1960s westerns to hilarious commercials and ad spots that fading stars like Rick found themselves being forced to perform in. Tarantino is so great at not just placing you into a particular epoch but making it a living world that draws the audience in. His attention to detail is incredible, and another testament to what a difference a film under someone with actual vision is compared to the assembly line movies the studios usually plop out. Once Upon a Time in Hollywood has many flaws, none of which are overly critical but flaws nonetheless, and doesn't steer itself towards more interesting territory that could have made the film on the level of Pulp Fiction, but it's also a highly entertaining piece of nostalgia that's bolstered by Tarantino's usual flair for staging unique and memorable scenes as well as the incredible star power that DiCaprio and Pitt bring. They don't make movies like this anymore (or did they ever?), and maybe that's what Tarantino is trying to bring back.
8/10
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