FShuttari
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Post by FShuttari on Jul 24, 2019 2:03:05 GMT -5
Once Upon A Time In Hollywood - Review Thread
This feels like a big summer blockbuster event, even though it's budget is modest. The amount of movie stars this movie fills the screen with, is pretty spectacular, you also have Kurt Russell and Al Pacino eating up the screen as well. All that being said... This movie drags. It is close to 3 hrs long and you can feel it while you're sitting, watching. Who edited this movie? I can see few scenes that do nothing for the main story. They also don't connect to the ending what so ever. The movie does eventually gets it's bearings, and does accumulate to the final ending. Which is one of the saving graces, and of course seeing these actors in their A-Game on screen. If you like old school Hollywood type films, the style, clothes, film making and the beautiful cinematography. This movie is your wet dream. I on the other hand, got a bit bored and it felt tiresome. I also felt the movie dragging in "Hateful 8" so that is your level of precaution. If you felt that movie drag at time, and you were bored at parts. Add that to this movie, by half an hour more... My biggest criticism of this movie is the Bruce Lee character, this movie gives zero respect to the actor, and made him look cartoony, rather than real and how damn important he was for cinema. I just don't understand Quentin's reason who loves film history to go this route. Bruce Lee is completely unbelievable as a character in this movie. I think Quentin Tarantino has gotten way too big as a film-maker, and nobody can critique, and tell him to step back. He's surrounded by "Yes Men" I'm guessing. He's always shown to be full of himself, but it's obvious now after Hateful Eight and now this, he's getting worst unfortunately. It's not all bad though, the things I did like I mentioned before is Leonardo DiCaprio and Brad Pitt, they are both phenomenal in the roles, and I think Brad Pitt is the real lead of this film. I'm 90% sure Brad Pitt will get an Oscar nomination and probably will win it, come Oscar season. I also give credit to the level of detail the 60's era Hollywood, if it's one thing Tarantino does well is makes his sets look believable without any CGI. Margot Robbie doesn't get enough screen-time, but when she is on screen she's pretty spectacular as Sharon Tate, she is so locked into this character for the little time she has, it's never boring or uninteresting. She really is phenomenal actress through and through. So final thought, even though this movie has not a single plot point. Can be boring at times. It is still worth recommending... I just know me personally I felt more let down. 8/10
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Post by Neverending on Jul 26, 2019 12:12:35 GMT -5
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Post by Neverending on Jul 26, 2019 12:14:01 GMT -5
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Post by Pbar on Jul 26, 2019 21:05:34 GMT -5
Visually Tarantino's best film. I understand people's complaints, just as much as I do the people who are falling in love with it. While there were times (especially the first viewing) that I started to find issues, the movie mesmerizes me so much that I could care less about those issues and cruise with it. The dialogue is less Tarantino than anything else he's written, with these characters feeling like people and not some otherworldly cool guy or gal his other characters are. Maybe not his best (INGLORIOUS still holds that title,) but it's a film that I feel time will be very kind to, of which I may need some more of with the 9th Tarantino Picture. Do not go in with preconceived notions or be swayed by anyone's take on this.
But, do see it in 35mm where you can. Surprisingly, was more impressive than the 70mm print.
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Post by Neverending on Jul 27, 2019 0:01:09 GMT -5
especially the first viewing You’ve seen it more than once - and it held up? That’s my issue. Once you know “the twist”, it makes further viewings way less interesting. By next week people will have forgotten this movie exists.
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FShuttari
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Post by FShuttari on Jul 27, 2019 3:36:02 GMT -5
Visually Tarantino's best film. I understand people's complaints, just as much as I do the people who are falling in love with it. Dull for me. Quentin Tarintino is in love with Hollywood in the 60's, dying age of Westerns, Manson Family murders. Its one big fairy tale and awe inspiring time for QT (kinda obvious how many scenes go nowhere, he just like the aesthetics, and culture of Hollywood L.A.) To many who agree, and love Hollywood culture this movie is a wetdream for them, it will be magical like walking into a fairy-tale. The rest of is will go "meh" Lets discuss some overly long or pointless scenes Brad Pitt feeding his dog.
Sharon Tate walking into bookstore and a movie theatre.
Playboy Mansion scenes.
Too lengthy of scenes with Leo walking around Hollywood sets with no purpose, and some with purpose.
Just really strange scenes that don't add to the over all story. Most of this movie doesn't even have a plot. Just settings in Hollywood L.A. and what that world look liked. I got bored.
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Ramplate
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Post by Ramplate on Jul 27, 2019 7:41:06 GMT -5
Pulp Fiction > Reservoir Dogs > Inglorious Basterds
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Post by Nilade on Jul 27, 2019 12:39:44 GMT -5
He could've shaved 15 minutes off the film if he just reduced the amount of time we see Brad Pitt's character driving around LA. Although I always enjoy the soundtracks of his films, it's obvious that's the only reason these extended scenes exist in this film.
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Post by Neverending on Jul 27, 2019 13:10:17 GMT -5
He could've shaved 15 minutes off the film if he just reduced the amount of time we see Brad Pitt's character driving around LA. Although I always enjoy the soundtracks of his films, it's obvious that's the only reason these extended scenes exist in this film. He could have cut Margot Robbie out entirely and it would have made no difference.
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Post by FShuttari on Jul 27, 2019 14:09:39 GMT -5
He could've shaved 15 minutes off the film if he just reduced the amount of time we see Brad Pitt's character driving around LA. Although I always enjoy the soundtracks of his films, it's obvious that's the only reason these extended scenes exist in this film. I was a little frustrated by it because it wasn't what I was expecting. And that's the problem. The trailer sells a different film. Even the ads have been selling it as a fun comedy buddy type movie. The middle of the movie is just a slow motion snail pace bore. I saw this in a theater when about the 2 hr mark people actually got up and started walking out of the movie. These were the same people, before the movie, and the lights dimmed, started clapping and cheering. Again maybe mine was a small incident where people started walking out, but in case it's not I think a lot of people were not expecting a slow burn movie like "Drive" (one of my favorite movies) But I would never pay to see a movie like that at the cinemas. I was able to enjoy at home, where it was more comfortable and I knew what kind of movie I was signing up for before I clicked Play.
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Jul 27, 2019 15:01:39 GMT -5
Well that was a pretty big letdown.
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Post by PhantomKnight on Jul 27, 2019 19:13:15 GMT -5
Initial impression: loved it. I can see why some would have issues with the pacing, but the characters were so engaging and the atmosphere was so infectious, that I didn't care and had a blast the whole way through.
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Post by Neverending on Jul 27, 2019 19:39:02 GMT -5
Initial impression: loved it. I can see why some would have issues with the pacing, but the characters were so engaging and the atmosphere was so infectious, that I didn't care and had a blast the whole way through. Watch it a second time and tell me if it holds up.
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Post by Doomsday on Jul 27, 2019 20:11:39 GMT -5
No need, this is a movie that you never, ever need to watch more than once.
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Post by Dracula on Jul 27, 2019 22:45:26 GMT -5
Once Upon a Time in Hollywood(7/26/2019) Review Contains Spoilers
For about as long as I’ve been watching Quentin Tarantino’s career there’s been the specter of its eventual end. Tarantino announced a while back that he was planning to quit filmmaking after he’d completed ten films, thus locking in a filmography for fear that he’d lose skill with age and have that taint his legacy. He’s likened it to a boxer knowing he only has so many fights in him. On some level this seems unnecessarily defeatist, after all Tarantino’s idol Martin Scorsese seems to be more than capable of making exciting and relevant films well into his 70s, but I do kind of see where that instinct comes from. There have definitely been filmmakers like John Carpenter who seem great but then suddenly become incapable of making good movies once they hit a certain age. More commonly though directors find themselves in a position where they make their last great movie, then they make four or five mediocrities, and then they end their career without fanfare. I can see why Tarantino would want to avoid that, but there’s always been a degree of skepticism about this whole scheme. Tarantino is plainly deeply in love with filmmaking to the point where it’s hard to see him willingly giving it up, so everyone just kind of assumed that plan would go the way of the Vega Brothers spinoff. But now with the release of his ninth movie (his marketers have been making sure you’re counting) he’s really close to that end goal and if that ninth film, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, is any indication Tarantino appears to be dead serious about his retirement plans and has been thinking about aging out of relevance someday very carefully. The film is set in Hollywood during the year 1969. Our focus is on a pair of fictional characters: a down on his luck star of B-movies and TV westerns named Rick Dalton (Leonardo DiCaprio) and his stunt double/friend Cliff Booth (Brad Pitt). Booth is a veteran stuntman but there’s been something of a pall over his career because it’s believed (perhaps rightly) that he murdered his wife and got away with it. In many ways he’s been working as an assistant and driver for Dalton, but Dalton’s career isn’t terribly healthy either. Dalton became famous as the star of a TV show called “Bounty Law” and he’s made a few grindhouse movies but at this point he’s mostly doing guest appearances as villains on other people’s shows and an agent named Marvin Schwarzs (Al Pacino) is trying to convince him to go to Italy to make a spaghetti western called Nebraska Jim with Sergio Corbucci. All the while Dalton is kind of unknowingly in the line of historical fire as he resides in a house on Cielo Drive right across the street from the home of Roman Polanski (Rafał Zawierucha) and Sharon Tate (Margot Robbie), which everyone knows would become the sight of the Manson Family’s most infamous murders in the August of that year. When auteurs on Tarantino’s level make movies you don’t generally go into them like you would a general release. Like, when I turn on a movie I haven’t seen by Fellini or Ozu or someone like that the last thing that’s on my mind is whether it’s “good” or “bad” in the traditional sense so much as I’m looking to see how they address their usual themes or advancing their aesthetic. Eventually you have to determine if it’s a major or minor work but unless they’ve really dropped the ball the question of whether the film is even worth seeing is king of beside the point. So let’s get the mundane consumer advice out of the way upfront. Once Upon a Time in Hollywood is a good movie, duh. It’s got a pair of fine performances at its center, some very funny moments along the way, it’s interest in 20th Century pop culture and iconography is impressive, and it leaves you with a lot to think about. That said, while I am the last person to complain about the runtime of Quentin Tarantino movies even I would have to admit that those criticisms might have a tiny bit of validity this time and that certain parts of the movie worked better than others. Within Tarantino’s recent oeuvre it lacks the energy and entertainment value of Django Unchained and the visual mastery of The Hateful Eight and certainly isn’t the radical reinvention that Inglourious Basterds was. Were I to rank his films it would probably be nearer to the bottom than the top, but whatever, the dude’s hardly ever made a movie that was even a little bit bad and being low ranked among his films is like being towards the bottom of a ranking of moon landings. So, thumbs up, four and a half stars, if you’re trying to decide between seeing this and seeing The Lion King, Stuber, Hobbs and Shaw, or whatever other market-tested product Hollywood is putting out by the time you’re reading this, see this. Again, Spoilers going forward, last warning.
With that out of the way, let’s look a little deeper into what this movie might be saying and how it fits into Tarantino’s career and into the filmmaking landscape. This is technically the first movie that Tarantino has made that was released by a major studio, or at least made by a major studio without going through a specialty division. He made the movie for Columbia/Sony after there were… issues… with the people he’s worked with most of his career. When it became known that he was shopping this project elsewhere there was actually something of a bidding war to see who he’d begin working with which kind of surprised me given that, well, he doesn’t make movies about superheroes. He makes R-rated independently spirited original movies that are driven by dialogue and esoteric references rather than CGI effects. He does have a good sized fan base and he’s certainly proven to have some commercial instincts to reach audiences beyond that, but at the end of the day he still doesn’t exactly embody what Hollywood normally values that strongly these days. Hell, even back in the 90s he was something of a renegade voice who needed to come through the indie backdoor in order to find a place in “the industry.” And that’s the thing about Tarantino’s whole retirement plan: had he announced it recently rather than over a decade ago one could easily imagine that it was a reaction to a belief that he and his style of filmmaking were being pushed out by Hollywood, and that anxiety almost certainly fuels Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. In the past Tarantino has rather snarkily said his whole retirement plan was in place because he didn’t want to find himself making “old man” movies, which is ironic because Once Upon a Time in Hollywood is absolutely an “old man movie.” It’s loaded to the brim with references to obscure nostalgic ephemera that no one under fifty is going to recognize (it makes “Mad Men” look downright lazy in its period detail), it completely ignores the filmmaking trends of its time, and most importantly it’s quite literally about old (well, Hollywood “old”) men not knowing how to react to “the kids” these days. The selection of 1969 as a year for Tarantino to set a movie about overtly about movies in is certainly not a coincidence. Anyone who knows film history knows that the late 60s was a tumultuous time for Hollywood where a new generation was rejecting the style of filmmaking that had been working since the Golden Age and new mediums like color television were increasingly acting as competition for the cinema and clearly Rick Dalton sees himself as a potential casualty of this transition. It also definitely isn’t a coincidence that Dalton’s genre of choice is the western because that is also genre which even at its height was all about generational change and hardened pioneers being replaced by the “civilized” world they helped to usher in (the movie rather pointedly has a character saying he wants to connect 1969 with 1869). That said, one shouldn’t view Dalton as a complete stand-in for Tarantino himself and the film should not be mistaken as a work that’s entirely on his side. For one thing, Dalton does not appear to have ever been as accomplished as an actor as Tarantino is as a filmmaker. He appears to have been something of a second rate talent and we’re given ever reason to believe his self destructive tendencies have as much to do with his professional shortcomings as changing tastes. A very uncharitable reading of him is that he’s exactly the kind of mediocre white man that is going to be the first one to be threatened by more tolerant hiring practices. More successful actors like the real Steve McQueen (who Dalton is established as a second rate non-union replacement for) are shown to fit in fairly well with the new generation and other members of the younger generation like Sharon Tate and the eight year old girl that Dalton has a breakdown in front of seem to be worthy replacements for the likes of Dalton. So in many ways it feels like the work of someone coming to terms with his own irrelevance in a changing world in which two flawed heroes from a dying world are set up to, like in the westerns of yore, go on one last great hurrah before leaving the world to the next generation… and then the Manson family shows up and everything goes crazy. If the pricklier aspects of Dalton and Booth are meant to represent why this change may be necessary, the Mansons are meant to represent everything that’s shitty about the next generation. The real Manson Family was of course a perverse funhouse mirror reflection of the hippie flower power movement; they were people who discarded all the values of a the previous generation and rather than replacing them with new and better values they replaced them with Charles Manson’s insane bullshit and became monsters without honor or humanity. Given their propensity to spout hollow slogans of radical consciousness they barely seem to understand one could maybe see them as a stand-in for the kind of woke twitter trolls who may be inclined to “cancel” Quentin Tarantino, especially given a speech delivered by Susan Atkins right before the murders where she accuses screen violence for the Vietnam war. However, I think the bigger statement Tarantino is trying to make about Manson has less to do with modern political discourse and more to do with the effect that the Manson murders are said to have had on the American psyche.
The cultural narrative has long been that the Manson murders shocked the nation in such a way that it kind of killed off the very notion of flower power and ushered in the end of the sixties. That way of viewing things is, of course, kind of ridiculous. Cultural evolution does not happen that cleanly, but when the legend becomes fact print the legend. So when Dalton and Booth inadvertently re-route history so that Manson’s minions are the ones massacred that day rather than Tate and her friends they are, for all intents and purposes, fighting the future and keeping the groovy sixties going on past the expiration date in our history books. On a more personal level this ending can also be viewed as a moment where the old dogs like Tarantino rage against the dying of the light, use their old world toughness to protect the innocent, and not only fight back against the people who would replace them but incinerate the motherfuckers with a damn flamethrower. So in many ways this ending would seem to be in contradiction with the resignation with the future and obsolescence we saw earlier in the film and which Tarantino seems to be advocating in the real world… but does it?
This is of course not the first time that Tarantino has dared to re-write history with one of his films. In Inglourious Basterds he killed Hitler and burned the Nazi regime to the ground and in Django Unchained he had a black man fight back against the slave holding south and blow up a plantation and metaphorically the debased society that built it. In both cases these are meant to be richly deserved cathartic retributions against debased philosophies which would usher in more enlightened ages more rapidly than in the real world. Here we’re certainly supposed to be happy that Sharron Tate has been saved but otherwise the revisionist history at play this time around seems to be something of a different beast. For one thing, Charles Manson is no Adolf Hitler and his idiot goons are no Hans Landa. We actually don’t see a lot of Manson himself in the movie and while we can intuit that the events of the film’s finale would eventually lead police to Spahn Ranch and result in his arrest Tarantino does not seem to view him as an adversary worthy adversary whose philosophy needs to be cathartically dismantled. Rather, a lot of what happens in that ending kind of feels like overkill.
The trait that initially changes the trajectory of the killers is not enlightened heroism but rather an old drunk asshole basically profiling what could have easily been a group of innocent young people under different circumstances and all but telling them to “get off his lawn.” And the way the Family acolytes are dispatched, while likely justifiable homicides is about as ugly and brutal as the actual killings from history despite being directed at people who ostensibly “have it coming” and the consciously absurd bit with the flamethrower borders on the psychotic. That the two then react to killing these “damn hippies” with such casualness also stands out, as does Dalton’s general disinterest in the well-being of his new wife. Are we supposed to feel happy about all this? I’m not so sure that we are. Just consider the music cue that’s playing when he walks away from the bloodbath to meet with the recently saved Sharron Tate. Rather than some triumphant pop song it’s a sparse cue from the movie The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean which almost sounds like something out of Rosemary’s Baby. And rather than taking a Victory Lap like Django or asserting something to be a masterpiece like Aldo Raine, he just walks out of frame while the camera lingers on the empty driveway.
There’s something ominous about it all and I think that’s Tarantino signaling his own ambivalence about what he’s just done as a re-writer of history. Viewed as a confrontation between actors and Manson family members this is all a relatively straightforward battle between good and evil but viewed as a confrontation between generations it’s uneasy. These two jackasses might be in able to claim the moral high ground in relation to the Manson Family but they maybe aren’t in a position to claim superiority over the future they don’t even know they’ve wiped out just because Tarantino loves to live in the past and that’s the big difference here: Django Unchained and Ingourious Basterds were movies where historical revision ushered in a new world but here revisionism is meant to maintain the status quo and Tarantino seems to realize that there’s something kind of problematic about this. He knows he’s being small “c” conservative and I don’t think he likes that feeling and I think the film is in many ways an expression of that.
Am I reading too much into this? I don’t know, maybe. This is actually the second straight Tarantino movie I’ve come out of with a fairly elaborate theory I’ve had to try to back up and while I do stand by my belief that The Hateful Eight is a complex allegory about political division I’m not sure that every granular piece of evidence for this which I found in my first viewing exactly holds. I’m also not sure I get how every piece here fits together either. Like, I totally see how Rick Dalton fits in with my little theory but I’m not entirely sure how Cliff Booth does or what Sharon Tate’s exact role is in it all and there are other parts of the movie that I don’t have the same sort of bold reading of. It’s in many ways a movie of ideas and iconography moreso than a work of storytelling and that makes it feel kind of weird and misshapen and I’m not sure how a lot of people are going to react to that. However, I think this is going to be looked back at as one of the important keystones of Tarantino’s career and I think his true fans are going to be able to pick up what he’s putting down, and if he does go forward with his plans to retire after his next movie I’ll certainly miss his work but after seeing this I think I finally understand. ****1/2 out of Five
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jul 28, 2019 0:04:45 GMT -5
Rick Dalton and Cliff Booth are based on Burt Reynolds and Hal Needham.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jul 28, 2019 12:29:52 GMT -5
Tarantino had his biggest box office opening with Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, grossing $40.3 million, but if you factor in inflation, Inglorious Basterds opened to $45.9 million. Good opening nonetheless. That said, OUATIH lacks the overwhelmingly positive reaction of Basterds and has way more competition with Hobbs & Shaw opening next weekend. Will be interesting to see what legs the movie will have.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Jul 28, 2019 13:06:07 GMT -5
Not sure when I'll get around to writing about this in any detail, but I kinda loved it. Hardest I've laughed in a theater since...maybe The Wolf of Wall Street.
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Post by Neverending on Jul 28, 2019 13:57:45 GMT -5
Not sure when I'll get around to writing about this in any detail, but I kinda loved it. Hardest I've laughed in a theater since...maybe The Wolf of Wall Street. Watch it a second time and let me know if you'll still feel that way.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Jul 28, 2019 14:08:36 GMT -5
Not sure when I'll get around to writing about this in any detail, but I kinda loved it. Hardest I've laughed in a theater since...maybe The Wolf of Wall Street. Watch it a second time and let me know if you'll still feel that way. I want to. Think I'll wait for it to come to my indie theater though so I can support them.
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Post by PhantomKnight on Jul 28, 2019 14:16:42 GMT -5
Yeah, I can't wait to see this again.
Neverending's only argument seems to be "watch it a second time", because supposedly knowing how it ends will ruin it in re-watches. Well, I actually had the ending spoiled for me before I saw it -- but even if I hadn't, it was still what I was guessing Tarantino would do anyway. Well, I sat there in my first viewing knowing where it was going already and that did NOTHING to affect my enjoyment of the movie. I still ended up having a blast the whole way through.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Jul 28, 2019 14:24:35 GMT -5
Yeah, I can't wait to see this again.
Neverending 's only argument seems to be "watch it a second time", because supposedly knowing how it ends will ruin it in re-watches. Well, I actually had the ending spoiled for me before I saw it -- but even if I hadn't, it was still what I was guessing Tarantino would do anyway. Well, I sat there in my first viewing knowing where it was going already and that did NOTHING to affect my enjoyment of the movie. I still ended up having a blast the whole way through. I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean either, that's the kind of thing you say when a movie is shallow but entertaining, this one shows every sign of being able to age like fine wine.
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Deexan
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Post by Deexan on Jul 28, 2019 15:06:43 GMT -5
Watch it a second time immediately after the first time. Only then can its quality be confirmed.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jul 28, 2019 15:35:18 GMT -5
Neverending's only argument seems to be "watch it a second time", because supposedly knowing how it ends will ruin it in re-watches. Of course it will. You’ll feel the runtime a lot more. All those Margot Robbie/Sharon Tate scenes are completely pointless. They only work in a first viewing because you expect her to be part of the finale. When this shit comes out on blu-ray, those will be the scenes in which you’ll find yourself on your phone.
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Post by Doomsday on Jul 28, 2019 16:10:13 GMT -5
There are a few gripes I have with the movie, one of them being that it seemed like Tarantino wanted to squeeze as much in as he possibly could that had little to no bearing on the story (story?) and was discarded just as quickly. Brad Pitt killing his wife for example, it's mentioned a few times but didn't have much of an effect on his character or direction of the movie. If it had never been brought up would it have made any difference? No, none whatsoever. Maybe it was a nod toward Natalie Wood? Maybe? Who knows but it's a plot thread that seemed like it was pretty important but wasn't at all. And that's just one. Also, I really hated the Kurt Russell narration at the end of the movie. It came off as so lazy which is surprising given that it's a Tarantino movie. I remember sitting there thinking 'this is the build-up, we know what we're hurdling toward but I feel nothing because we're being told that the two guys are getting drunk and that it's really hot in LA and that they had to take a cab.' There was no sense of suspense or tension or foreboding or dread or anything. Considering how Tarantino loves using soundtracks in his movies that would have been so much more effective rather than having Kurt tell us exactly what we're watching. It was almost as if someone else entirely directed that sequence and it really sucked the life out of the end of the film. The only thing saving it was the as-to-be-expected Tarantino ultra violence which was admittedly pretty funny. Don't worry Neverending, people are giving this a pass right now because it's Tarantino but they'll come around. The same thing happened with Hateful Eight when that came out too but we all know a few years on that it's not a very good movie. I wouldn't call OUATIH a bad movie but it's not great and it certainly in no way compares to Tarantino's other films. Not even close.
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