IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Aug 11, 2015 15:24:37 GMT -5
Ian's Bond Education
The Spy Who Loved Me The Bond producers clearly tried to win me over to the Roger Moore films early in this one by inducing a ski chase in the per-credit sequence. Well played, Eon films, well played. This is most definitely the best of the Moore era thus far. I'm not sure what else is in store for me later, but Spy Who Loved Me goes into the "Bond films I like" category. Why? Well apart from the ski chase, there's quite a few other cool things, such as the underwater evil headquarters. I also like Egypt as a setting. But mostly its because the "fun" of the Bond films is present, without getting over-the-top goofy. Moore seems to have really struck that chord just right with this one. But its not all good. Jaws is intimidating, but also kind of ridiculous. I mean, he gets hooked to the magnet by his teeth. And he bites a shark. although, watching him rip up that van was pretty sweet. Yet the movies biggest problem is that its simply too long. The ending in particular really drags and takes forever to get to the point. They could have easily trimmed a good half hour off of this. Nonetheless, its the best I've seen since Secret Service (which coincidentally also had skiing). 7/10
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Aug 11, 2015 19:40:27 GMT -5
Ian is gonna love For Your Eyes Only, The Living Daylights and The World Is Not Enough.
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Aug 12, 2015 14:44:58 GMT -5
OCTOPUSSY (1983)
"Repetition, repetition, repetition," seems to be the motto of the James Bond franchise most of the time. And true to form, what we get with Octopussy is more of the same in what we got with For Your Eyes Only, but a bit more stale and not as much fun as last time. I get it, people expected the same thing every time at this point in the franchise -- which, in a way, made the Bond series the Marvel Studios of its time. But just like with Marvel Studios now, if a Bond film can't inject much life into the current film I'm watching, then why should I care?
Octopussy gets off to a good start with a very solid opening action scene, but from there, a stale sense of "sameness" gradually starts to settle in, with not much to help distinguish it in any way, or in a good way, for that matter. I mean, sure, you've got a pretty decent train-set action sequence near the end of the Second Act, but not much more than that. Whereas For Your Eyes Only contained a welcome amount of entertainment, Octopussy just seems to go through the motions. This applies to Roger Moore a lot, who clearly looks like he doesn't care anymore and who, in fact, wasn't initially supposed to be in this, but had to be because of Never Say Never Again. Only one more of this era to go, though, after Connery's last appearance, and then it's onto Timothy Dalton's short-lived tenure, which I'm actually rather looking forward to.
I really wish I had more to say about Octopussy, but seriously, it's just another James Bond movie, nothing more and nothing less.
**1/2 /****
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Aug 12, 2015 14:51:08 GMT -5
Yeah, Octopussy is pretty much how you describe it. Not bad, not good, just a middling "here we go again" turn for Moore. I still like it better than Never Say Never Again and A View to a Kill though.
I liked both of the Dalton entries. License to Kill feels more like an '80s action/revenge flick than a Bond one, but it's fun. The Living Daylights is one of the more underrated Bonds to me.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Aug 12, 2015 17:32:49 GMT -5
I was a big fan of Octopussy during my childhood and teen years. I loved the opening. I loved the humor. I loved the train/car chase. I loved Bond as a clown. I loved Q being included in the action. I loved the ending with Bond fighting the villain and rescuing the girl on top of a plane. For a LONG time, it was in my Top 10 list of the best James Bond movies. But now in my early adult years, I find the movie to be incredibly mediocre. I think the biggest issue is the running time. If I'm not mistaken, this movie is over 2 hours long. Yikes! If it had been 90 minutes, it would have been perfect.
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IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Aug 12, 2015 18:03:25 GMT -5
Is there at least an octopus in it?
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IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Aug 12, 2015 18:04:03 GMT -5
I was a big fan of Octopussy during my childhood and teen years. I loved the opening. I loved the humor. I loved the train/car chase. I loved Bond as a clown. I loved Q being included in the action. I loved the ending with Bond fighting the villain and rescuing the girl on top of a plane. For a LONG time, it was in my Top 10 list of the best James Bond movies. But now in my early adult years, I find the movie to be incredibly mediocre. I think the biggest issue is the running time. If I'm not mistaken, this movie is over 2 hours long. Yikes! If it had been 90 minutes, it would have been perfect. I think all Bond movies should only be 90 minutes. That was painfully clear with Spy who love me. |
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Aug 12, 2015 18:09:17 GMT -5
Ugh, I forgot the part where he's a clown. So stupid.
Yes, there are octopi in it.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Aug 12, 2015 18:46:04 GMT -5
"Repetition, repetition, repetition," seems to be the motto of the James Bond franchise most of the time.
Damn right! |
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Post by Neverending on Aug 12, 2015 19:28:50 GMT -5
I think all Bond movies should only be 90 minutes. Then you're gonna love Quantum of Solace. |
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Aug 12, 2015 21:09:50 GMT -5
"Repetition, repetition, repetition," seems to be the motto of the James Bond franchise most of the time.
Damn right! And that doesn't bother you at all? Isn't the point of sequels NOT to repeat the ones that came before? Why do the Bond films get a pass? |
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Aug 12, 2015 21:12:58 GMT -5
And that doesn't bother you at all? Isn't the point of sequels NOT to repeat the ones that came before? Why do the Bond films get a pass? It's tradition. Like eating turkey at Thanksgiving. Would you want anything else? Granted, I do get what you're saying. There are certainly entries that execute the formula better than others. |
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Post by Neverending on Aug 12, 2015 21:27:38 GMT -5
And that doesn't bother you at all? Isn't the point of sequels NOT to repeat the ones that came before? Why do the Bond films get a pass? I can't speak for Dracula or Jibbs but I watched James Bond movies thanks to TBS and their 007 Days of Christmas marathon. There's a MAJOR difference between taking months to digest all these movies and watching them all in a week. Like Cooper said, some execute the formula better than others, so as long as the movie is good, the repetition didn't really matter. Our point-of-view is coming from watching these movies in the 1990's when we were children and teens, so our tolerance is a lot higher than yours. |
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Aug 12, 2015 21:30:21 GMT -5
Yeah, I consumed Bond like a fiend as a kid. I should specify though this isn't strictly Nostalgia. I watched a lot of action movies as a kid, but few stuck the way Bond has.
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Aug 12, 2015 21:37:10 GMT -5
And that doesn't bother you at all? Isn't the point of sequels NOT to repeat the ones that came before? Why do the Bond films get a pass? It's tradition. Like eating turkey at Thanksgiving. Would you want anything else? Granted, I do get what you're saying. There are certainly entries that execute the formula better than others. But if you have turkey, say, once or twice every week, then you're eventually gonna get fed up with it. Then again, I've never been fond of the traditional Bond formula to begin with, so there's that. I mean, the majority of these things have been about him trying to stop nuclear threats to the world; surely, there were other options for a spy movie.
I dunno, Dracula likes to bitch about the M:I franchise repeating itself too much lately, but I'd argue the best M:I movies are better than the majority of earlier-era Bond films I've seen so far.
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Post by Neverending on Aug 12, 2015 21:37:13 GMT -5
this isn't strictly Nostalgia. I've watched these movies so many times that nostalgia isn't really a factor anymore. BUT, picture it being 1995 and there's no Internet and you're stuck at home because of Christmas vacation. Watching 17 James Bond movies (counting Never Say Never Again) in a week made sense. I didn't care if there was repetition or not. I just wanted to be entertained. So that's the point-of-view that I and Dracula bring to it. PhantomKnight and IanTheCool are going through a completely different experience. There tolerance level isn't as high as ours. |
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Aug 12, 2015 21:39:29 GMT -5
And that doesn't bother you at all? Isn't the point of sequels NOT to repeat the ones that came before? Why do the Bond films get a pass? Not only does it not bother me, I demand it. Watched in a vacuum and taken on their own merits none of these movies are what you'd call "great" and only a few rise to the level of "very good." The reason we care about them is that they're a tradition, for them to diverge from the series traditions is to miss the point entirely. Don't get me wrong, I do very much enjoy the subtle ways that the movies change to fit the styles of the times in that "hey look how weird my hair looked in that old photograph" kind of way, but at they're heart I do want them to follow the core tenants of the series. And yes, these are pretty much the only movies I want to see behave like this. Pretty much the only other thing that's slightly comperable is Woody Allen and his annual movies that all start with white credits over black backgrounds. Or wait here's another analogy, Saturday Night Live has almost never been the best sketch comedy show on TV, but for all the SCTVs, Kids in the Halls, Chappelle Shows, and Inside Amy Schumers that have come along over the course of its run it has remained an institution because no matter who's in the cast we take comfort in knowing that each episode will begin with a cold open, followed by a monolog, then a fake ad, and then there will be a musical guest at roughly the same point in each episode. Same basic thing. |
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Aug 12, 2015 21:45:03 GMT -5
It's tradition. Like eating turkey at Thanksgiving. Would you want anything else? Granted, I do get what you're saying. There are certainly entries that execute the formula better than others.
I dunno, Dracula likes to bitch about the M:I franchise repeating itself too much lately, but I'd argue the best M:I movies are better than the majority of earlier-era Bond films I've seen so far.
M:I id kind of different because the whole point of M:I was supposed to be that it would be the anti-Bond and bring in a new director with a radically different style to re-invent each installment. There would be a sort of tradition of breaking tradition if that makes any sense. I'm going to elaborate on this in the Mission: Impossible Rogue Nation review I've been writing, but in some insane irony the Mission Impossible franchise has decided to drop its tradition of radical re-invention right as the Bond series has decided to abandon its tradition of slavishly following formula. It's insane. That having been said, M:I is significantly less important to me than Bond, so it ultimately doesn't bother me as much. |
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Aug 12, 2015 21:46:16 GMT -5
And that doesn't bother you at all? Isn't the point of sequels NOT to repeat the ones that came before? Why do the Bond films get a pass? I can't speak for Dracula or Jibbs but I watched James Bond movies thanks to TBS and their 007 Days of Christmas marathon. I mostly got into the series through VHS tapes, but yeah, same principal. Watched them in a sort of childhood binge. |
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Post by Neverending on Aug 12, 2015 21:47:20 GMT -5
Let's not exaggerate. The Bond movies HAVE evolved over the years. The Sean Connery movies started as semi-serious spy thrillers and turned into children's entertainment. The Roger Moore movies started as almost full blown comedies and then settled down towards the end. The Timothy Dalton movies take themselves VERY seriously and the Pierce Brosnan ones don't. Then there's the Daniel Craig ones. So... yeah... they might follow a similar story structure but the tone and style evolved over the years. You can't watch Octopussy and say it's the same shit as Dr. No. They're almost completely different movies. |
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Aug 12, 2015 21:53:13 GMT -5
Well, the bottom line is that the Bond franchise doesn't hold nearly as much significance to me as it does a few others on this board. At the end of the day, I can only see it as an amusing series that's managed to endure for so long.
Now, if I were to take into consideration the possibility of my personal favorite franchise/series that I hold near and dear, Harry Potter, deviating too much from why I love it, then yeah, I can understand. But I'm not confident in that comparison since it's two different ballparks. |
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Post by Neverending on Aug 12, 2015 21:56:52 GMT -5
Harry Potter is shit, but it's your shit. James Bond is our shit. But again, you're focusing a lot on the story while ignoring what makes each movie stand apart. Think about what I said to Dracula. If you compare Octopussy to Dr. No, the first James Bond movie, they're completely different movies. This series did actually evolve over the years. |
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Aug 12, 2015 22:00:35 GMT -5
Let's not exaggerate. The Bond movies HAVE evolved over the years. The Sean Connery movies started as semi-serious spy thrillers and turned into children's entertainment. The Roger Moore movies started as almost full blown comedies and then settled down towards the end. The Timothy Dalton movies take themselves VERY seriously and the Pierce Brosnan ones don't. Then there's the Daniel Craig ones. So... yeah... they might follow a similar story structure but the tone and style evolved over the years. You can't watch Octopussy and say it's the same shit as Dr. No. They're almost completely different movies. Yeah, but the tonal differences were gradual and the same basic skeleton is there throughout. The basic structure (gun barrel, cold open, theme song, M/Q briefing, evil girl, good girl, action scene action scene, finale, jokey tag) was rarely changed and the tonal shifts you describe happened over decades and were probably a little more obvious in retrospect than they were at the time. Also, I'm fine with that. To use the Thanksgiving analogy, I always want Turkey on my Thanksgiving table, but there are a million different ways to make the stuffing. |
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Aug 12, 2015 22:01:18 GMT -5
Harry Potter is shit, but it's your shit. James Bond is our shit. But again, you're focusing a lot on the story while ignoring what makes each movie stand apart. Think about what I said to Dracula. If you compare Octopussy to Dr. No, the first James Bond movie, they're completely different movies. This series did actually evolve over the years. You can say the same for Harry Potter. Deathly Hallows 1 and 2 are vastly different from Sorcerer's Stone, but I'm really not trying to get into a pissing match here. Like you said, we all have our own shit. |
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Jibbs
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Post by Jibbs on Aug 13, 2015 17:55:54 GMT -5
Yeah, Dracula nailed it. Something was lost when Craig showed up and tradition was thrown to the wind.
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