Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Mar 21, 2015 20:55:43 GMT -5
Sin City: A Dame to Kill For was iTunes' $0.99 rental of the week. It hasn't even been a year since this movie was released and it's already in the digital equivalent of the Wal-Mart bin. And it's no surprise. The movie flopped at the box office for being a sequel that was released at least 5 years too late. It also doesn't help that Robert Rodriguez's recent output has been crap. Quite frankly, audiences just don't give a shit. But for $0.99 and the promise of Eva Green being naked for most of her screen time, I took the bait and have no regrets. If you liked the original Sin City, you'll like the sequel too. It's, more or less, the same thing. I know that's usually a bad thing, but considering that Sin City is a unique experience, it earns a free pass. There are no other directors making tongue-in-cheek noir's with stylized black-and-white cinematography. Frank Miller tried it a few years back with The Spirit, but without Rodriguez on board, it just came across as amateur. Sin City: A Dame to Kill For doesn't do anything new, but it doesn't really need to. It's only the 3rd movie of its kind and it's a lot of fun to watch. B+
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Mar 21, 2015 23:30:10 GMT -5
From Letterboxd:
Although Sin City isn't for everyone, it was a stylish, gritty neo noir film that left an impression long after it left theaters. The characters were serious, the dialogue was crisp and the movie had an edge. For director Robert Rodriguez it's a shining light in a filmography peppered with 'why did you make this?' moments. Since the first Sin City was released there was talk of a sequel. Unfortunately it took 9 years for the sequel to happen and after so much time the property has lost its luster.
Everything that made Sin City fun and unique is absent from this follow-up. There are plot points that don't amount to anything, actions done by the main characters that are senseless and, what could amount to the greatest crime in the film, it's boring. The edge and grittiness is gone. The characters aren't as lethal or interesting. It almost feels like Rodriguez and Miller knew this and decided 'well we can just have Eva Green go topless for 90% of her screentime and have Jessica Alba dance for almost 100% of hers. That should be fine.'
While the visuals and action offer some relief, they still don't add anything that we haven't already seen before. Nothing in the movie offers anything fresh. It's a movie only for the most loyal Robert Rodriguez fans which makes me question; how many of those could there possibly be?
C- so says Doomsday
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Mar 21, 2015 23:57:03 GMT -5
DoomsdayI think your memory is fuzzy. The original Sin City wasn't serious. It was basically a black comedy. Then again, I haven't seen it in 9 years either. Maybe I'm wrong. I have the DVD which I got for Christmas 2005. I'll re-watch it and let you know who's right or wrong.
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Mar 22, 2015 0:06:29 GMT -5
Haha thanks.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Mar 30, 2015 12:59:37 GMT -5
One of the lesser known narratives of 2014 in film has been the rise of the unnecessary Frank Miller sequels. Early in the year saw the release of 300: Rise of an Empire, which did not feature original director Zack Snyder or anyone from the cast of the first film (though that last point makes sense given how 300 ends). The film also had a direct-to-video esque title and the marketing was nothing special. The film wasn’t exactly a success, but it did do respectable business worldwide and while the reviews weren’t great, the audience who sought out the film seemed to enjoy it okay. The other film of this trend is Sin City: A Dame to Kill For, which was quite a different animal from Rise of an Empire. The sequel saw most of the cast of the original returning, as well as co-directors Robert Rodriguez and Frank Miller. Despite what would seem a solid pedigree, the film was ravaged by both critics and audiences while also being a box-office flop. I had serious reservations about the film even before the failure of it so I ultimately decided to skip its theatrical run and wait for home video. I’m glad I did because A Dame to Kill For lives up to its low reputation.
A Dame to Kill For is a half-sequel half-prequel to the original Sin City in that it takes place after certain key stories from the first film, but before others. As such, a lot of the characters we wouldn’t expect to return, like Marv (Mickey Rourke) are back in action. Like the first film, A Dame to Kill For looks at multiple stories loosely connected through setting and characters. The main threads involve: Dwight (Josh Brolin), a private eye roped into a scheme by his ex-girlfriend Ava (Eva Green), now married to a millionaire; Johnny (Joseph Gordon-Levitt), a hot shot gambler in a test of wills with Senator Roark (Stacy Keach); and Nancy Callahan (Jessica Alba) seeking revenge on the aforementioned Roark after the death of John Hartigan (Bruce Willis).
Part of the reason a sequel to Sin City always seemed a poor idea to me is because I know the source material. I read all of the books as a teenager and all of the best stories were adapted in the first film. Any sequel would essentially be the scraps. It seems Miller knew this and decided to write two original storylines for the film, but this is even less encouraging because Frank Miller lost his mind in the 21st century and hasn’t created anything good in a long time. If I were to break down the main stories individually, I’d say the best one, surprisingly enough, is “The Long Bad Night”, which follows Johnny and his efforts against Senator Roark. It’s straight-forward and not very substantial, but is engaging and it builds to a nice ending. Second best would be “A Dame to Kill For” itself, which sees the return of Dwight (Josh Brolin this time around as the character has not had his surgery which will turn him into Clive Owen) as he is lulled into a scheme by his ex-girlfriend Ava (Eva Green). This one is conceptually sound and features some fun performances from Brolin and Green, but is hindered by some really stupid moments and it ultimately adds nothing to Dwight’s character. Worst of all is “Nancy’s Last Dance”, which focuses on Nancy Callahan’s (Jessica Alba) quest for vengeance on the aforementioned Roark after the death of John Hartigan (Bruce Willis) in “That Yellow Bastard”, depicting in the original film. Simply put, it’s a simplistic revenge film that features no surprises, is tonally unbalanced, and goes against the entire spirit of what it supposedly follows.
The problem isn’t just the details of the stories, but the whole spirit of the project. The original Sin City may be an exercise in style over substance, but not only did I find the stories gripping, but there was a certain dignity, sadness, and soul to that film. A Dame to Kill For on the other hand is extreme and vulgar, designed purely as a vehicle for stylish action and violence. The first film’s signature style has not only been replicated, but enhanced. Violence is even more ridiculous, the colours even more extreme, the action even more over the top. I suppose this is a benefit as the stories don’t maintain interest the way they did in the first one, but it comes off as desperate. Perhaps it’s my fault for taking the first film too seriously, but I felt a little betrayed by how this film took the series and diluted it to a joke. Nowhere is this more evident than the film’s treatment of Marv. Marv may have been a tough son of a bitch and the first film, but he was also a lonely and sad man. He may have had some badass lines and moments, but he was someone to be pitied not celebrated. Here, Marv is essentially used as comic relief. He only exists as a vehicle for violence and mayhem, constantly with a sense of tongue and cheek badassery. When we see the man dual wielding shotguns and senselessly killing thugs, it isn’t a depiction of a tortured soul, it’s a cartoon. Where’s the heart and soul of this character I once loved? This is also felt in “Nancy’s Last Dance”, which follows up the sorrow and regret of “The Yellow Bastard” with a silly revenge tale with the pretensions of tragedy. Additionally, the way the story ends totally goes against the point of “The Yellow Bastard”. It’s like Miller and Rodriguez don’t understand what worked in the first film.
I didn’t completely hate A Dame to Kill For. As I said earlier, “The Long Bad Night” is a genuinely engaging short that surprised me with how it won me over. Also, as much as the over indulgence of violence bothers me, I’d be lying if I said I didn’t enjoy some of the action scenes. These successes might be enough to pass some films, but this is a case where the failures are too egregious for that. The few things it does right were not only matched by the original Sin City, but that film also executed those elements much better than this one did. Not only is A Dame to Kill For an inferior work, but it also completely betrays the reasons I loved the original as much as I do. I can’t let that stand.
D
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Mar 30, 2015 13:29:13 GMT -5
Fanible did some low-key editing on my poll. I don't understand the point of hiding poll results. Perhaps it’s my fault for taking the first film too seriously/ ... Yeah. I'm surprised that you and Doomsday took the first movie so seriously. I know 2005 was ages ago and that was a different era for all us, but I'm pretty sure that movie is a black comedy. I vividly remember seeing the movie in theaters and the whole audience was laughing their ass off. But like I said, I have the DVD gathering dust somewhere and I'll re-watch it when I get the chance.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Mar 30, 2015 13:31:52 GMT -5
Fanible did some low-key editing on my poll. I don't understand the point of hiding poll results. Perhaps it’s my fault for taking the first film too seriously/ ... Yeah. I'm surprised that you and Doomsday took the first movie so seriously. I know 2005 was ages ago and that was a different era for all us, but I'm pretty sure that movie is a black comedy. I vividly remember seeing the movie in theaters and the whole audience was laughing their ass off. But like I said, I have the DVD gathering dust somewhere and I'll re-watch it when I get the chance. I wouldn't call it heavy drama. I know it's tongue and cheek and meant to be an excessive bit of fun, but I think it took it's story and characters more seriously than that. It felt like a legit movie. This entry felt like a joke.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Mar 30, 2015 13:33:56 GMT -5
This entry felt like a joke. Watch Machete Kills. THAT'S a joke.
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Mar 30, 2015 13:43:45 GMT -5
I had to power, POWER through the first Machete. I think I made it 20 minutes into the second one before I just fast forwarded to the end.
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Post by Neverending on Mar 30, 2015 14:03:36 GMT -5
I had to power, POWER through the first Machete. I think I made it 20 minutes into the second one before I just fast forwarded to the end. I saw the first Machete in theaters at a preview screening. It was awful, but I did get a cool poster. I watched Machete Kills on Netflix and I experienced such a great deal of second-hand embarrassment that I literally watched Desperado right after it to feel better. Compared to those two movies, and Spy Kids 4 which I didn't even bother to watch, Sin City 2 is a return to form for Robert Rodriguez. He has been making shit for way too long. Sin City 2 gave me hope again.
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Mar 30, 2015 14:14:02 GMT -5
I sorta get the idea behind the Grindhouse movies that he and Tarantino made. I can see 'hey, we used to like these crummy yet entertaining movies, let's make our own crummy yet entertaining movies.' Rodriguez seems to think that we still want to see them.
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Post by Neverending on Mar 30, 2015 14:21:36 GMT -5
I sorta get the idea behind the Grindhouse movies that he and Tarantino made. I can see 'hey, we used to like these crummy yet entertaining movies, let's make our own crummy yet entertaining movies.' Rodriguez seems to think that we still want to see them. Have you seen Robert Rodriguez's director series on El Rey Network? If you haven't, you really need to. I was actually telling SnoBorderZero about it at the old CS!. Robert Rodriguez did a 2-hour interview with Quentin Tarantino and Tarantino confessed that the failure of Grindhouse/Death Proof affected his filmmaking. Before 2007 he really thought that he could make ANYTHING and people would enjoy it. Now, he's a lot more careful and tries not to alienate audiences. Rodriguez, on the other hand, had the opposite reaction and Tarantino casually mentioned that. I guess since Rodriguez's Planet Terror was actually popular, Rodriguez went forward with all these Grindhouse type movies. Tarantino didn't insult Rodriguez or say anything negative but you could tell, from the tone of his voice, that he was concerned about Rodriguez's recent career choices.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 15:04:28 GMT -5
I fell in love with Sin City and was very excited about SC2. Well count this as one of the biggest let downs ever. How the F do you screw up a movie with Powers Boothe?? He alone makes a film great but somehow they managed to turn it into one of the most boring 2 hours of film I have seen in years. The whole thing feels like it is just Robert Rodriguez patting himself on the back and trying to be really cool while he sits back and counts his paycheck instead of directing his actors. Every single cast member is wasted in this film. Amazing talent and no output from any of them.
I did not like Machete either. I made it through about 30 mins and turned it off out of boredom. I am pretty sure at this point that Rodriguez is a hack who gets lucky from time to time.
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Fanible
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Post by Fanible on Mar 30, 2015 18:34:06 GMT -5
Fanible did some low-key editing on my poll. I don't understand the point of hiding poll results. Oops. I keep doing that, but I don't mean to. It could be changed, but it would delete the present votes (not that there's a lot). You should start voting too.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Mar 21, 2021 9:05:06 GMT -5
Doomsday, it took me 6 years but I finally re-watched the original Sin City. Or at least most of it. I fell asleep by the Bruce Willis/Yellow Bastard segment. Didn’t even have to dust off my old DVD. It was on TV in what I’ll assume was Blu-Ray quality. Carla Gugino’s nipples really popped. Anyway, I’m amazed I watched this at a sold out auditorium in 2005. This shit looked so damn cheap and fake. We make fun of George Lucas and the Star Wars prequels, but at least that kinda holds up. The visual effects here are horrendous and the lighting is atrocious. We need SnoBorderZero to come out of hiding and give us a cinematography breakdown on Sin City. The acting is wildly inconsistent. I bursted out in laughter at how bad Bruce Willis and Michael Madsen are in this movie. “Hell of a way to break up a partnership.” And was Elijah Wood’s character supposed to be a joke? But man, Mickey Rourke as Marv is still fucking awesome. They should have given the man an Oscar. That whole Marv segment holds up incredibly well. It was always the highlight of Sin City but now it’s the only reason to watch it.
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Mar 21, 2021 12:48:30 GMT -5
I rewatched Sin City a couple years ago on Netflix. I still enjoyed it but I've never been nuts over it like other people. I remember seeing it at midnight in college with people in my dorm. I didn't know what Sin City was and I was only tagging along with the group but these people I went with, none of whom I've kept in touch with in any way, were the 'film school' kids. They were in film school so you know they took film seriously unlike the non-film school amateurs. You know they took things seriously because they stayed until the end credits had finished. It's respectful you know. You didn't know that? That's because you don't take film seriously. We stay until the credits finish because this is our life. Just don't ask us whether we watch past the credits when watching a DVD.
And you can thank Robert Rodriguez himself for the cheap and fake look, he credited himself as the VFX supervisor after all.
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Post by Neverending on Mar 21, 2021 14:04:16 GMT -5
I didn't know what Sin City was and I was only tagging along with the group but these people I went with, none of whom I've kept in touch with in any way, were the 'film school' kids. lol. That was me. One of my friends really hated Clive Owen in this film. I was like, “he was alright.” But now that I’ve re-watched the movie, he was right, Clive Owen is fucking terrible. lol.
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