Ramplate
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Post by Ramplate on Nov 10, 2016 10:03:29 GMT -5
What they used to do before they picked running mates is take the top two vote getters and make the top the president and the second runner the vice president no matter what party they were from.
I think that would make things much more interesting
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Nov 10, 2016 10:16:22 GMT -5
What they used to do before they picked running mates is take the top two vote getters and make the top the president and the second runner the vice president no matter what party they were from. I think that would make things much more interesting That was always a terrible idea and they changed it for a reason. It meant the potus and veep were unable to work together and that the second most liked and influential person in the country was stuck with a thankless and largely meaningless job. Also it would theoretically make political assassination seem like a more purposeful option.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Nov 10, 2016 10:32:39 GMT -5
Doomsday Dracula SnoBorderZero thebtskinkI've been studying the numbers. I think we need to kill a few myths. The reality of this election is that people just didn't show up. Let's look at the 2004 election between George W. Bush and John Kerry. In total, both candidates got 121,069,054 votes. Bush got 62 million and Kerry got 59 million. The 2016 election still has votes left to be counted. At the moment it's Hillary Clinton with 59.9 million and Donald Trump with 59.7 million. Both candidates are, more or less, where Kerry was in 2004. I'm not sure either candidate will reach 62 million. So we're looking at a million to two million less voters than 2004. That paints a different picture. Obama really fired up his base. In 2008, Obama got 69 million votes. That's 10 million more votes than Hillary. John McCaine got 59.9 million. That's 200,000 more than Trump at the moment. In 2012, Obama got 65 million and Mitt Romney got 60 million. Do you see the pattern? Trump isn't too far off from 2008 and 2012. The base mostly showed up. Hillary is down, way down, from Obama. The base didn't show up. Both Clinton AND Trump alienated people and voting was down this year. So this isn't a case of angry white people showing up to vote. This is a simple case of more Republicans showing up than Democrats. It's a mid-term election on a general election. This is something that needs to be worked on for the 2018 mid-terms and the 2020 general. Democrats didn't just lose the White House. They lost everything. The Senate. The House. The Supreme Court. It's bad.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Nov 10, 2016 10:58:51 GMT -5
Yup, I can't stand it when people just flat out don't vote. It's lazy and there's no excuse, especially since there are propositions to vote on that do directly affect your community. Republicans vote and they vote in droves. Democrats say they voted but really didn't. There's plenty more people who align themselves as Democrats than Republicans in this country, but Republicans vote and in the end that's all that matters.
I'm just waiting for California to leave the country. I'm down to take Oregon and Washington with us, maybe Nevada to have as a weird cousin.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Nov 10, 2016 11:16:28 GMT -5
Yup, I can't stand it when people just flat out don't vote. I'm looking at other elections. Voting seems to be very consistent throughout the 20th century. After women and minorities got their rights to vote, the numbers went up but those numbers then stayed consistent. The 21st century is where things get interesting. The 2000 and 2004 election saw a rise in voter turnout. That could be cause the population got bigger or because people were just voting more. I don't know. Then you look at 2008 and 2012. Those are historic. That's the most people have ever voted. I don't think I need to look at the 18th and 19th centuries to verify that. So the fact we went down for 2016 is also historic. How the fuck do you lose 10 million voters? That's crazy.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Nov 10, 2016 11:37:15 GMT -5
People are disillusioned by the candidates, and I get that, but doesn't that make this election even more important? I guess I was just naive in believing that enough people were disgusted by the thought of Trump as president that they would come out in droves to make sure it wouldn't happen. Hispanics certainly did their part in that, where Hillary wasn't able to garner support was from African Americans and white women. African American voter turnout is always poor, other than the Obama elections and even then it still wasn't great, but for her to lose the white women vote to Trump 2:1 is just astounding.
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Post by Neverending on Nov 10, 2016 11:45:28 GMT -5
Alright SnoBorderZero . Wikipedia actually did the job for me. 52.1% of the population voted this year. Keep in mind, votes are still being counted. Compare that to the rest of the century. 50.3% voted in 2000. 55.7% voted in 2004. 57.1% voted in 2008. 54.9% in 2012. 2004 and 2008 are the most people have voted. That's telling. In 1992, 55.2% voted. More people showed up for Bill Clinton and George Bush I than Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. PLUS, there was a noteworthy 3rd party candidate that year. Ross Perot got 19.7 million votes. 62.8% voted in 1960. John F. Kennedy. Richard Nixon. 81.8% in 1876. 100 years of America. Also, the first time the electoral college fucked us. That's when Rutherford Hayes won even though he didn't get the popular vote. ALSO, the biggest turnout we've ever had. Crazy.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Nov 10, 2016 11:58:16 GMT -5
Bernie Sanders is going to have to accept responsibility for some of these turnout problems. If he hadn't hyped people up about his hopeless protest campaign and then started up with the "rigged system" bullshit it would have been a lot harder for the republican smears on Hilary to have stuck.
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FShuttari
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Post by FShuttari on Nov 10, 2016 12:19:10 GMT -5
Apparently Trump removed the claim that he would ban Muslims from his website. Hopefully he'll change his thought process on religious freedom.
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Post by Neverending on Nov 10, 2016 12:23:33 GMT -5
Apparently Trump removed the claim that he would ban Muslims from his website. Hopefully he'll change his thought process on religious freedom. Obamacare is gone. The Supreme Court is fucked. Everything else is up in the air.
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Post by Neverending on Nov 10, 2016 12:26:07 GMT -5
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Post by Neverending on Nov 10, 2016 14:10:12 GMT -5
This is the worst thing Obama has ever had to do.
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Nov 10, 2016 14:36:03 GMT -5
I can see the pain on his face. Having to shake hands with the piece of shit attempting to reverse 8 years of his work.
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Frizzo the Clown
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Post by Frizzo the Clown on Nov 10, 2016 14:37:31 GMT -5
This is the worst thing Obama has ever had to do. "Immediately after that handshake, both men doused their hands in Purell."
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Ramplate
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Post by Ramplate on Nov 10, 2016 15:26:15 GMT -5
Bernie Sanders is going to have to accept responsibility for some of these turnout problems. If he hadn't hyped people up about his hopeless protest campaign and then started up with the "rigged system" bullshit it would have been a lot harder for the republican smears on Hilary to have stuck. Sanders did a lot for the turnout this time. He got a lot of people energized and active. I think a lot of people were just psyched up for Hillary being the first woman to get further this year, while others either didn't like her or liked Bernie's ideas more. I kept telling people that Clinton had to adopt some of his ideas because he got a lot of people following, but people still wouldn't vote for her, and lodged a lot of protest votes. As far as the DNC rigging things, you heard about the wiki leaks emails. Hillary's gal pal was up to no good and looking at ways to sabotage his campaign. Shit like the emails and all the rumors and wacko conspiracy theories did the rest. Plus, behind the curtains , the Secret Service said she's a big bitch, which she is. In any case, she had more votes than Trump - just not in the right states
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Nov 10, 2016 15:54:52 GMT -5
Bernie Sanders is going to have to accept responsibility for some of these turnout problems. If he hadn't hyped people up about his hopeless protest campaign and then started up with the "rigged system" bullshit it would have been a lot harder for the republican smears on Hilary to have stuck. Sanders did a lot for the turnout this time. He got a lot of people energized and active. I think a lot of people were just psyched up for Hillary being the first woman to get further this year, while others either didn't like her or liked Bernie's ideas more. I kept telling people that Clinton had to adopt some of his ideas because he got a lot of people following, but people still wouldn't vote for her, and lodged a lot of protest votes. As far as the DNC rigging things, you heard about the wiki leaks emails. Hillary's gal pal was up to no good and looking at ways to sabotage his campaign. Shit like the emails and all the rumors and wacko conspiracy theories did the rest. Plus, behind the curtains , the Secret Service said she's a big bitch, which she is. In any case, she had more votes than Trump - just not in the right states The wiki leaks emails were far from damning, just a bunch of people talking shit amongst themselves and not acting on any of it. The only reason it had any effect is because Sanders did everything in his power to make himself look like the victim in a conspiracy rather than accept his own loss.
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Post by Neverending on Nov 10, 2016 16:42:53 GMT -5
The Democrats sabotaged Bernie by not supporting him. Now, they're suffering for it. Bernie, without his party and without the media, fired up the progressive movement. He didn't win the primaries cause there's only so much someone can do by themselves. If the media had ignored Donald Trump I bet we'd be dealing with President Jeb Bush right now.
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Justin
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Post by Justin on Nov 10, 2016 16:48:25 GMT -5
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Post by Jibbs on Nov 10, 2016 18:55:48 GMT -5
Here's the staff watching them.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Nov 10, 2016 19:59:06 GMT -5
Here's the staff watching them. Also this:
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Nov 10, 2016 19:59:44 GMT -5
The bottom right photo is mainly what I wanted to share.
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daniel
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Post by daniel on Nov 10, 2016 23:02:42 GMT -5
Sanders did a lot for the turnout this time. He got a lot of people energized and active. I think a lot of people were just psyched up for Hillary being the first woman to get further this year, while others either didn't like her or liked Bernie's ideas more. I kept telling people that Clinton had to adopt some of his ideas because he got a lot of people following, but people still wouldn't vote for her, and lodged a lot of protest votes. As far as the DNC rigging things, you heard about the wiki leaks emails. Hillary's gal pal was up to no good and looking at ways to sabotage his campaign. Shit like the emails and all the rumors and wacko conspiracy theories did the rest. Plus, behind the curtains , the Secret Service said she's a big bitch, which she is. In any case, she had more votes than Trump - just not in the right states The wiki leaks emails were far from damning, just a bunch of people talking shit amongst themselves and not acting on any of it. The only reason it had any effect is because Sanders did everything in his power to make himself look like the victim in a conspiracy rather than accept his own loss. To dismiss what were in those emails is incredibly myopic. For years, people have suspected and believed that politicians were smiling all the way to the bank, that every pretty lie they told us was meant to placate us while they negotiated with foreign governments, lobbyists, PACs, and Super PACs to line their wallets. Since Bush Sr. and his connection to Saudi oil all the way up until Obama and his questionable decisions to keep us in a war we never should have been in (Though I ended up liking him more than I anticipated), we have all suspected something dirty happening behind the scenes. And there, in black and white, was the proof of what we suspected all along. There were messages where a DNC Email referred to Latino Voters as 'Taco Bowl Outreach' (which would have added to the Trump racist accusations), along with blatant collusion to sideline Bernie at every turn. There is documented footage of people being paid by the Clinton political team to go to rallies and incite violence, despite the accusations being thrown entirely at Trump. Ignore it and dismiss it and downplay that all you want, but people cared. They cared enough to say "Fuck you, big government - I'll take the loudmouth sissy boy over your corrupt puppet." The system of an elitist two-party system is a total joke. I 100% agree that Bernie would have kicked the shit out of Trump. I know this, because I was part of a large group of people who stood behind Bernie, got knocked the fuck over, and fought back the only way we could. Unfortunately, every remark about how people felt about Hillary was met with condescending elitist bullshit (looking at you shutari), or dismissive claims about how bad Trump is (additional sideways glance at shutari). We know Trump sucks, shut the fuck up - Big Government is worse. And guess who gets to decide that? Everyone who curb stomped the DNC's ass into the pavement. This is the spanking American Politics needed, and there is something to learn aside from "oh my god America is being overrun by Nazis and the KKK." Get your childish vitriol out of here. It's gonna hurt for a bit, but we're gonna grow from it as soon as all the whiners shut up, learn where they went wrong, and realize where the common ground can be found amongst us all. I'm optimistic.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Nov 10, 2016 23:08:10 GMT -5
I hope the blacks and the Mexicans and the Muslims and the homosexuals and the women who are being persecuted because hatred towards them has been legitimized by the election of someone so hateful can take solace in the fact that American politics are getting the "spanking they needed".
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Nov 10, 2016 23:20:35 GMT -5
The wiki leaks emails were far from damning, just a bunch of people talking shit amongst themselves and not acting on any of it. The only reason it had any effect is because Sanders did everything in his power to make himself look like the victim in a conspiracy rather than accept his own loss. To dismiss what were in those emails is incredibly myopic. For years, people have suspected and believed that politicians were smiling all the way to the bank, that every pretty lie they told us was meant to placate us while they negotiated with foreign governments, lobbyists, PACs, and Super PACs to line their wallets. Since Bush Sr. and his connection to Saudi oil all the way up until Obama and his questionable decisions to keep us in a war we never should have been in (Though I ended up liking him more than I anticipated), we have all suspected something dirty happening behind the scenes. And there, in black and white, was the proof of what we suspected all along. There were messages where a DNC Email referred to Latino Voters as 'Taco Bowl Outreach' (which would have added to the Trump racist accusations), along with blatant collusion to sideline Bernie at every turn. There is documented footage of people being paid by the Clinton political team to go to rallies and incite violence, despite the accusations being thrown entirely at Trump. Ignore it and dismiss it and downplay that all you want, but people cared. They cared enough to say "Fuck you, big government - I'll take the loudmouth sissy boy over your corrupt puppet." The system of an elitist two-party system is a total joke. I 100% agree that Bernie would have kicked the shit out of Trump. I know this, because I was part of a large group of people who stood behind Bernie, got knocked the fuck over, and fought back the only way we could. Unfortunately, every remark about how people felt about Hillary was met with condescending elitist bullshit (looking at you shutari), or dismissive claims about how bad Trump is (additional sideways glance at shutari). We know Trump sucks, shut the fuck up - Big Government is worse. And guess who gets to decide that? Everyone who curb stomped the DNC's ass into the pavement. This is the spanking American Politics needed, and there is something to learn aside from "oh my god America is being overrun by Nazis and the KKK." Get your childish vitriol out of here. It's gonna hurt for a bit, but we're gonna grow from it as soon as all the whiners shut up, learn where they went wrong, and realize where the common ground can be found amongst us all. I'm optimistic. Look, if you hack into any team of people's private email you're going to find some embarrassing stuff and running a country is always going to involve compromises. It was Otto von Bismark who said you never want the people to see how the sausage is made. I guarantee you, if we had an all access look at the email of the Bernie Sanders team or the Trump team they were going to find some embarrassing stuff. To throw a fit and vote in an asshole who's ideology and essence is the diametric opposite of everything Sanders stood for is a level of illogical insanity that I will never understand and don't care to. The claims made against Clinton were dismissed because they deserved to be dismissed most of them were either simply untrue or were laughably naive. But hey, if doing something stupid and destructive makes you feel good I certainly hope you enjoy it while you can because you're going to be feeling very very ashamed at yourself if Trump makes good on half of the things he says he's going to do.
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daniel
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Post by daniel on Nov 10, 2016 23:39:12 GMT -5
Keep the elitist tears coming. Your condescension only further fuels me.
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