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Post by Neverending on Jan 13, 2021 20:24:11 GMT -5
James Buchanan and Trump have a great deal in common. Buchanan attributed to an insurrection on the government, a little dust up called the US Civil War. He liked the idea of being President, but didn't want to actually do any governing. Since there was no cable news in those days, he spent most of his time playing cards with his lackeys. On the rare occasions when he did get involved, it was always to do something horrible. He was a racist, publicly supporting the Supreme Court's notorious Dred Scott decision that said blacks weren't citizens and therefore had no rights. He made sure that when Kansas was granted statehood, it entered as a slave state. There was a major collapse of the national economy during his administration, known as the Panic of 1857. After Lincoln won the election and talk of secession went into overdrive, Buchanan made a speech in which he said states couldn't leave the US, but also said that the Federal government lacked the power to stop states from leaving. He also blamed Northerners for all the trouble and said that their actions justified whatever response Southerners chose. Damn, no wonder before Trump he was basically unanimously regarded as the worst ever. I think you made a better argument for John Tyler.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Jan 13, 2021 20:47:07 GMT -5
Trump was already the worst ever, but this just makes it statistically a certainty. I've been reading about all the presidents because I'm that person, and so far I've gotten through the first 10. Of those John Tyler is far and away the worst. Haven't gotten to the really bad ones: Franklin Pierce, James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, Warren G. Harding, Herbert Hoover. And yet I guarantee that when reading about all of them I'll be able to point to more positives they did than Trump. And NONE of them inspired an insurrection on the government. That's really all that needs to be said to solidify Trump as the worst ever. He made sure that when Kansas was granted statehood, it entered as a slave state. He didn't succeed at that, Kansas entered as a free state.
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Post by Neverending on Jan 13, 2021 20:56:18 GMT -5
He didn't succeed at that, Kansas entered as a free state. He also didn’t create the Panic of 1857. He merely had a Jacksonian response to it.
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Post by thebtskink on Jan 13, 2021 20:56:51 GMT -5
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Post by Dracula on Jan 13, 2021 20:58:37 GMT -5
Damn, no wonder before Trump he was basically unanimously regarded as the worst ever. I think you made a better argument for John Tyler. Tyler mostly wasn't successful enough to be a truly terrible president, all his worst inclinations never really got accomplished and his term was ultimately uneventful despite a lot of bad feelings of all involved.
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Post by Neverending on Jan 13, 2021 21:07:07 GMT -5
1. Andrew Johnson 2. James Buchanan 3. Donald Trump 4. Warren G. Harding 5. Franklin Pierce He replaced George W. Bush, who was on the list in 2010. And W. Bush had replaced Millard Fillmore, who was on the list in 2002. Fillmore replaced Ulysses S. Grant, who was on the list in 1982, ‘90 and ‘94. So basically, since 1982, according to this University, the worst Presidents are Johnson, Buchanan, Harding and Pierce. They just rotate the 5th slot. Interesting that there’s no mention of Hoover, Nixon and Reagan.
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Post by Neverending on Jan 13, 2021 21:17:00 GMT -5
Tyler mostly wasn't successful enough to be a truly terrible president, all his worst inclinations never really got accomplished and his term was ultimately uneventful despite a lot of bad feelings of all involved. So he’s the shitty version of Jimmy Carter?
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Post by thebtskink on Jan 13, 2021 21:19:29 GMT -5
Tyler mostly wasn't successful enough to be a truly terrible president, all his worst inclinations never really got accomplished and his term was ultimately uneventful despite a lot of bad feelings of all involved. So he’s the shitty version of Jimmy Carter? Carter has been a Saint after the presidency, but when I was a poli Sci major every source I read had him as one of the worst, if not ineffectual. He had both houses and couldn't get anything passed because he ran it like his state house.
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Post by Neverending on Jan 13, 2021 21:39:42 GMT -5
So he’s the shitty version of Jimmy Carter? Carter has been a Saint after the presidency, but when I was a poli Sci major every source I read had him as one of the worst, if not ineffectual. He had both houses and couldn't get anything passed because he ran it like his state house. Jimmy Carter, so far, has had the best post-Presidency career. But yes, his Presidency was a joke. He had a recession, an energy crisis and the Iran hostage crisis and struggled with all of them. He basically handed over the 1980 election to Ronald Reagan. We suffered through 8 years of Reagan cause Carter was ultimately an inefficient President. That will always be his legacy.
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Post by Dracula on Jan 13, 2021 21:41:52 GMT -5
1. Andrew Johnson 2. James Buchanan 3. Donald Trump 4. Warren G. Harding 5. Franklin Pierce He replaced George W. Bush, who was on the list in 2010. And W. Bush had replaced Millard Fillmore, who was on the list in 2002. Fillmore replaced Ulysses S. Grant, who was on the list in 1982, ‘90 and ‘94. So basically, since 1982, according to this University, the worst Presidents are Johnson, Buchanan, Harding and Pierce. They just rotate the 5th slot. Interesting that there’s no mention of Hoover, Nixon and Reagan. Nixon had enough accomplishments when he wasn't doing corrupt shit or bombing Cambodia that you can't entirely write him off. I could go on for hours about Reagan, but at the end of the day I think a certain generation is just going to have to die out before we get a fully understanding of his legacy. Honestly I don't really know a whole lot about Hoover. Tyler mostly wasn't successful enough to be a truly terrible president, all his worst inclinations never really got accomplished and his term was ultimately uneventful despite a lot of bad feelings of all involved. So he’s the shitty version of Jimmy Carter? Carter tried to do good things and didn't really succeed, Tyler tried to do evil things and didn't really succeed, I'd say one of those is worse than the other. So he’s the shitty version of Jimmy Carter? Carter has been a Saint after the presidency, but when I was a poli Sci major every source I read had him as one of the worst, if not ineffectual. He had both houses and couldn't get anything passed because he ran it like his state house. The dude was unlucky. He inherited an energy crisis and had to deal with a hostage crisis that he probably wasn't in much of a position to have prevented. Just the four worst years to have become president. Reagan was the opposite, he did all sorts of crazy shit that could have gotten us all killed but things just kind of ended up working out for him and he just dodged a bunch of scandals that would have sunk other presidents.
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Post by Neverending on Jan 13, 2021 22:06:19 GMT -5
I could go on for hours about Reagan, but at the end of the day I think a certain generation is just going to have to die out before we get a fully understanding of his legacy. The man sold weapons to Iran so he could fund a war in Nicaragua. Imagine if Trump did that shit. He’d be impeached a 3rd time.
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Post by Dracula on Jan 13, 2021 22:10:23 GMT -5
I could go on for hours about Reagan, but at the end of the day I think a certain generation is just going to have to die out before we get a fully understanding of his legacy. The man sold weapons to Iran so he could fund a war in Nicaragua. Imagine if Trump did that shit. He’d be impeached a 3rd time. Trump does shit like that every week. Iran-Contra never really took off because the American people didn't have the attention span to understand it and it's only gotten worse since then. The Ukraine thing was simple by comparison.
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Post by thebtskink on Jan 13, 2021 22:10:52 GMT -5
I love that there's this many Presidential history nerds on this board.
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Post by Neverending on Jan 13, 2021 22:28:22 GMT -5
Reagan was the opposite, he did all sorts of crazy shit that could have gotten us all killed but things just kind of ended up working out for him and he just dodged a bunch of scandals that would have sunk other presidents. Trump does shit like that every week. Iran-Contra never really took off because the American people didn't have the attention span to understand it and it's only gotten worse since then. The Ukraine thing was simple by comparison. Back in the 1980’s we still had a proper middle class, and trickle-down-economics on a purely surface level, did seem to work. I think the middle class (and of course the upper class) tolerated all of Reagan’s shenanigans cause they weren’t paying attention and didn’t really care. The only people that truly suffered under Reagan were the working class and minority groups. And of course, all of us 40 years later, who have to deal with the remnants of Regan-era policies. I think Reagan deserves a spot on the worst-of list and we shouldn’t have to wait for 1980’s yuppies to die for us to make that decision.
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Post by 1godzillafan on Jan 14, 2021 6:41:58 GMT -5
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Post by 1godzillafan on Jan 14, 2021 8:14:08 GMT -5
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Post by 1godzillafan on Jan 14, 2021 12:47:51 GMT -5
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Post by Jibbs on Jan 14, 2021 16:53:55 GMT -5
Besides talking about how horrible Trump has been to help decide worse ever, did Trump even ever do anything good? Or say something good? One of the most amazing things to me about Trump over these few years was just how abysmal a person and president he was on every single level. I honestly didn't know someone could exist like that.
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Post by Dracula on Jan 14, 2021 17:11:36 GMT -5
Besides talking about how horrible Trump has been to help decide worse ever, did Trump even ever do anything good? Or say something good? One of the most amazing things to me about Trump over these few years was just how abysmal a person and president he was on every single level. I honestly didn't know someone could exist like that. Hmmm. He did sign one criminal justice reform bill under the delusion that it would make black voters like him, and he seems to have placed some pressure on Mitch McConnel to send relief checks so long he was able to sign his name to them... I think that's about it.
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Post by Neverending on Jan 14, 2021 17:11:47 GMT -5
Besides talking about how horrible Trump has been to help decide worse ever, did Trump even ever do anything good? Or say something good? One of the most amazing things to me about Trump over these few years was just how abysmal a person and president he was on every single level. I honestly didn't know someone could exist like that. Even the biggest Nixon critic can say, “well — at least he opened relations with China.” Trump doesn’t have one single accomplishment. There might be minor things you can point to, for instance, he was correct about Puerto Rico’s elected officials being corrupt & evil motherfuckers, but there’s no major thing you can applaud him for.
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Post by Wyldstaar on Jan 14, 2021 20:14:05 GMT -5
Besides talking about how horrible Trump has been to help decide worse ever, did Trump even ever do anything good? Or say something good? One of the most amazing things to me about Trump over these few years was just how abysmal a person and president he was on every single level. I honestly didn't know someone could exist like that. Even the biggest Nixon critic can say, “well — at least he opened relations with China.” Trump doesn’t have one single accomplishment. There might be minor things you can point to, for instance, he was correct about Puerto Rico’s elected officials being corrupt & evil motherfuckers, but there’s no major thing you can applaud him for. Trump saying Puerto Rico's elected officials are bad news isn't exactly an accomplishment. It's recognizing an obvious fact. While it's certainly true that Trump being able to recognize and acknowledge an obvious fact is an incredible accomplishment for HIM, it's not that big a deal for the average person who isn't a total idiot. Plus, if there's anyone who can recognize an evil bastard who's only it it or themselves, it's Trump.
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Post by Neverending on Jan 14, 2021 20:47:52 GMT -5
Even the biggest Nixon critic can say, “well — at least he opened relations with China.” Trump doesn’t have one single accomplishment. There might be minor things you can point to, for instance, he was correct about Puerto Rico’s elected officials being corrupt & evil motherfuckers, but there’s no major thing you can applaud him for. Trump saying Puerto Rico's elected officials are bad news isn't exactly an accomplishment. It's recognizing an obvious fact. While it's certainly true that Trump being able to recognize and acknowledge an obvious fact is an incredible accomplishment for HIM, it's not that big a deal for the average person who isn't a total idiot. Plus, if there's anyone who can recognize an evil bastard who's only it it or themselves, it's Trump. I only singled that out because Trump was highly criticized for throwing tissue paper at people in Puerto Rico after the 2017 hurricane, but he was ultimately justified in dismissing the island’s recovery because most of the aid never reached the citizens. He could have been diplomatic. He could have taken action against those elected officials. But, the point is, to give him some credit, this was an instance in which he wasn’t spewing bullshit.
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Jan 14, 2021 22:46:59 GMT -5
I'm very certain that Trump still doesn't believe that Puerto Rico is part of the United States.
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Post by 1godzillafan on Jan 15, 2021 11:50:14 GMT -5
Did Boebert just out herself as an "inside man" by angrily objecting to something that never mentioned her by name? Or is she just really, really stupid?
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Post by Dracula on Jan 15, 2021 12:28:53 GMT -5
Did Boebert just out herself as an "inside man" by angrily objecting to something that never mentioned her by name? Or is she just really, really stupid? Both?
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