Politics Thread

Nov 7, 2020 20:28:57 GMT -5 thebtskink said:

I do hope that lessons are learned in what gave rise to Trumpism,

Let's go as far back as Obama winning, which was momentous for obvious reasons. Everyone on his side was so enamored with the historical impact of it that he started getting a free pass for things that needed to be called to the carpet. He wasn't ending the war, as promised, among a list of other things. No President is perfect, and no one should act like they are.

Obama had his reasons to no immediately pull out of Iraq, namely that the generals warmed him that pulling out too quickly would leave a power vacuum that could have been filled by extremists and sure enough that's more or less what happened when Chelsea Manning leaked the video of the Baghdad airstrike which caused an uproar among the Iraqis that forced the military to pull out of the country faster than they wanted, which basically set up the rise of Isis. As for Afghanistan, Obama never did promise to pull out of there and said consistently on the campaign trail that that would continue to be a long hard fight.

Those who did speak out and criticize him were met with accusations of racism. Anyone who had legitimate criticisms were silenced and shamed and called racist. That’s when I saw the anger on the right rising. That’s when I saw accusations of a racist nation starting to stir and rise and start to become this perpetual machine that caused louder and louder outcry on one side, and anger and resentment on the other. And, don't get me wrong, there were plenty of people scared about a black man in office. There were people who had terrible, racist views and comments about it, but that wasn't everyone. His critics were growing angrier and angrier that he was seemingly given a free pass by his supporters and the media to do whatever he wanted because of who he was, and they were being labeled as racist for speaking out about it. Racism became a huge cry in our country, then. It was the ultimate deflection for the Democratic Party. And, in a moment when racism was put in the spotlight, the response from the Left was bashing people over the head and canceling them instead of stepping up to fight it, not with insults and attacks, but empathy and learning. It was a vicious time out there. I myself went through some great growth and learning, but man, people did not make it easy on me at all, no matter how sincere and earnest I was to try do the right thing. It was as if suddenly an opportunity to leap to the moral high ground presented itself, but people chose to snipe people from their position rather than help others up.

Look, eight years of a presidency are always going to involve plenty of back and forths but you have to see things from the Democrats' side. They'd elected this historic personality, an ideal leader who seems poised to move us into a new era, and yet he's constantly attacked and cockblocked at every stage over seemingly nothing. He gets unprecedented obstructionism by Republicans in congress, he gets this insanely over the top rhetoric about socialism and fascism thrown at him by these nutty tea party people, all for the crime of trying to pass the mildest possible healthcare bill, a healthcare bill that was basically authored by Republicans in the 90s as an alternative to single payer. So yeah, I don't think it was too much of a leap to suggest that this kind of unprecedented polarization just might have had a tinge of racism to it given that all this rage was way way way out of purportion.

Then, Hilary stepped up. "Oh look, it's a Clinton. Didn't they lie to us, and maybe murder some people and cover it up too? Definitely the first, maybe the second, I dunno." And then you had Bernie rising up in prominence. He cared about progress, and fighting the status quo, and told us he didn't care about lobbyist money. He was a true believer, a light in the darkness, and the DNC seemingly snuffed him out.

Strike one against the DNC.

The DNC didn't "snuff him out," he just lost. These conspiracy theories about the DNC were largely based on the idea that the DNC had significantly more power than it did. The so-called superdelegates had been a part of the process from long before Sanders came along and they were irrelevant anyway because Hilary beat sanders by enough that she would have won with or without them. Outside of that the theories were entirely based on these emails (leaked by the Russians to sow discontent) which suggested that people within the DNC prefered Hillary but basically no evidence that they actually did much of anything to help her. It was a bunch of bullshit.

Then, the news of Clinton's emails came out, and what followed was a nail in the coffin of the Democratic party that election year. No one really gave a shit about emails on her laptop. I mean, really, she checked some emails on her laptop. To the every day citizen, who gives a shit? What they cared about was further lack of transparency and ownership in the face of it. Had she taken responsibility, and gracefully admitted her mistake I am willing to bet she won that election.

Instead, she doubled down and deflected it all. Deflected to how terrible Trump is, and wouldn’t just take some damned responsibility. And, in doing so, she reminded people of her husband, and how he lied to the American public on national television. And, she reminded them of all the responsibility Obama seemingly shirked for 8 years, and how her party called them all names when they tried to speak up for what was right.

Admit it and take responsibilty? You mean like this:

Yep, that really put the issue to bed.

So this was about the people wanting honesty from their politicians... that might have been a plausible story had she lost to John Mccain of Mitt Romney, but she didn't, she lost to Donald Trump... a man who spent his entire campaign telling lie on top of lie on top of lie, blatantly and without the slightest bit of shame and often contradicting his own statements while more or less bragging about how good he was at lying. Which sounds like a more plausible story to you, that people voted for Donald "Obama was born in Kenya" Trump out of a desire for greater honesty in politics or that they blew a dumb irrelevant story about emails beyond out of proportion because they desperately needed an excuse to support the racist demagogue instead of the eminently more qualified woman? Maybe you honestly find the former story more plausible, but you must at least have some sense of why most democrats would find the latter story more likely?

But, sure, continue to dismiss a large portion of the country as dumb. Keep calling them names. Keep sniping away. That's the lazy response, and it will keep you in the frustrating cycle you're in where you're outraged every 4-8 years for 4-8 years. And, it will continue to stay that way, back and forth, over and over, marching the same insane march we keep marching if you continue forward thinking everything is as simple as "oh, they're dumb." Maybe they are, but telling someone who is dumb they're dumb doesn't make them stop being dumb, and their vote counts just as much as yours. Guess who stays frustrated in the end? I highly encourage anyone who reads this and responds dismissively to practice some empathy and re-strategize, think about how much education is valuable, and how you can participate in spreading education and not hatred through insults.'

I also encourage you to see the irony and hypocrisy (I sincerely know this word is tough to hear) in a statement like "Its not hard to be companionate and acceptable of others" after saying Trump was "Completely elected because the stupid fucks decided to vote him in." Again, it can be easy to be dismissive, but "easy" isn't going to solve anything.

Look, if these people didn't want us to think they were dumb they shouldn't have elected someone as wildly and plainly unqualified, corrupt, incompetent, and racist as Trump. There's just no coming back from that, it's completely beyond the range of comprehension. And to then try to re-elect him after four years of... that... what the hell are we supposed to think?

And look, I get the concept of trying to do compassionate outreach to the other side, I'm not completely blind to the fact that calling these people "dumb" out loud might not be the best electoral strategy (which is why you didn't see Joe Biden or much of anyone else running for office saying it), but there are limits to how much people can go through life without calling a spade a spade. And frankly, it's a little bit tiring to watch the left being constantly asked to compromise at every turn and do all sorts of empathetic outreach when the other side doesn't seem to have the slightest interest in trying to do the same. Democrats are constantly trying to be the adults in the room while Republicans act like a single-minded cult of concentrated rage. The New York Times and other outlets ran story after story trying to understand Trump voters in bars and cafes but when was the last time you saw an op-ed in Breitbart or on Fox News tying to "understand" or "reach out" to Democrats?

What I currently find tone deaf about the Democrats now is you have people like Michelle Obama saying shit like "finally, honesty, the truth, and decency are coming back to the White House," and I once again can't eye-roll hard enough at how Dems truly, genuinely, sincerely believe they are the arbiters of high moral ground.

Ummm... you know the previous inhabitant of the white house was Donald "tear gas protestors to stage a photo op where he holds the bible upsidedown" Trump we're talking about here. I'm sorry but when you elect someone like that you've pretty much abandoned the high ground forever. If you truely want to send the message to Democrats that they aren't the decent and truthful ones that is not the way to do it. Quite the opposite in fact. Also, ffs, it's politics, what the hell do you expect her to say.

One of the most outspoken Social Media Slacktivists I know constantly de-cries the plight of the homeless and low-income families being pushed out of their homes - she bought a house in the most gentrified part of the city, sold it for a 700% markup, and now lives in a high rise condo in the middle of downtown Austin. I know that's just one anecdote, but I know plenty of others just like this. I just don't buy it when they tell me how altruistic and caring they are, and that's essentially the political cry of their party.

Exactly how many of this person's possessions do they have to sell before they are deemed sufficiently pure to be able to say they care about homelessness? Must they first give every last penny to charity and live under a bridge? Can they still have a car? Or must they walk everywhere? Because the simple fact is that if we're going to dismiss everyone who cares about improving society as a hypocrite unless they personally suffer themselves basically nothing is ever going get fixed in this country.

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Politics Thread Nov 23, 2020 22:33:24 GMT -5

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Post by daniel on Nov 23, 2020 22:33:24 GMT -5

Nov 8, 2020 13:14:45 GMT -5 Doomsday said:

Nov 7, 2020 23:01:28 GMT -5 Dracula said:

But I'll end with this quote from Michelle Obama from earlier in the week that I just read this morning. Now she may not be President but behind Barack she's probably the most popular figure in the Democratic party. You might agree with her or think she has a good point but I can tell you anyone who voted for Trump either enthusiastically or reluctantly is going to read this and think to themselves 'this is why I never vote for you guys.'

"Let’s remember that tens of millions of people voted for the status quo, even when it meant supporting lies, hate, chaos, and division," she wrote. "We’ve got a lot of work to do to reach out to these folks in the years ahead and connect with them on what unites us."

LOLOL YEP. This would be equivalent to Trump actually winning and then saying "we are keeping kindness, morality, and strong character in the White House."

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Politics Thread Nov 23, 2020 22:57:39 GMT -5

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Post by daniel on Nov 23, 2020 22:57:39 GMT -5

Nov 23, 2020 21:36:57 GMT -5 Dracula said:

Let's go as far back as Obama winning, which was momentous for obvious reasons. Everyone on his side was so enamored with the historical impact of it that he started getting a free pass for things that needed to be called to the carpet. He wasn't ending the war, as promised, among a list of other things. No President is perfect, and no one should act like they are.

Obama had his reasons to no immediately pull out of Iraq, namely that the generals warmed him that pulling out too quickly would leave a power vacuum that could have been filled by extremists and sure enough that's more or less what happened when Chelsea Manning leaked the video of the Baghdad airstrike which caused an uproar among the Iraqis that forced the military to pull out of the country faster than they wanted, which basically set up the rise of Isis. As for Afghanistan, Obama never did promise to pull out of there and said consistently on the campaign trail that that would continue to be a long hard fight.

Those who did speak out and criticize him were met with accusations of racism. Anyone who had legitimate criticisms were silenced and shamed and called racist. That’s when I saw the anger on the right rising. That’s when I saw accusations of a racist nation starting to stir and rise and start to become this perpetual machine that caused louder and louder outcry on one side, and anger and resentment on the other. And, don't get me wrong, there were plenty of people scared about a black man in office. There were people who had terrible, racist views and comments about it, but that wasn't everyone. His critics were growing angrier and angrier that he was seemingly given a free pass by his supporters and the media to do whatever he wanted because of who he was, and they were being labeled as racist for speaking out about it. Racism became a huge cry in our country, then. It was the ultimate deflection for the Democratic Party. And, in a moment when racism was put in the spotlight, the response from the Left was bashing people over the head and canceling them instead of stepping up to fight it, not with insults and attacks, but empathy and learning. It was a vicious time out there. I myself went through some great growth and learning, but man, people did not make it easy on me at all, no matter how sincere and earnest I was to try do the right thing. It was as if suddenly an opportunity to leap to the moral high ground presented itself, but people chose to snipe people from their position rather than help others up.

Look, eight years of a presidency are always going to involve plenty of back and forths but you have to see things from the Democrats' side. They'd elected this historic personality, an ideal leader who seems poised to move us into a new era, and yet he's constantly attacked and cockblocked at every stage over seemingly nothing. He gets unprecedented obstructionism by Republicans in congress, he gets this insanely over the top rhetoric about socialism and fascism thrown at him by these nutty tea party people, all for the crime of trying to pass the mildest possible healthcare bill, a healthcare bill that was basically authored by Republicans in the 90s as an alternative to single payer. So yeah, I don't think it was too much of a leap to suggest that this kind of unprecedented polarization just might have had a tinge of racism to it given that all this rage was way way way out of purportion.

Then, Hilary stepped up. "Oh look, it's a Clinton. Didn't they lie to us, and maybe murder some people and cover it up too? Definitely the first, maybe the second, I dunno." And then you had Bernie rising up in prominence. He cared about progress, and fighting the status quo, and told us he didn't care about lobbyist money. He was a true believer, a light in the darkness, and the DNC seemingly snuffed him out.

Strike one against the DNC.

The DNC didn't "snuff him out," he just lost. These conspiracy theories about the DNC were largely based on the idea that the DNC had significantly more power than it did. The so-called superdelegates had been a part of the process from long before Sanders came along and they were irrelevant anyway because Hilary beat sanders by enough that she would have won with or without them. Outside of that the theories were entirely based on these emails (leaked by the Russians to sow discontent) which suggested that people within the DNC prefered Hillary but basically no evidence that they actually did much of anything to help her. It was a bunch of bullshit.

Then, the news of Clinton's emails came out, and what followed was a nail in the coffin of the Democratic party that election year. No one really gave a shit about emails on her laptop. I mean, really, she checked some emails on her laptop. To the every day citizen, who gives a shit? What they cared about was further lack of transparency and ownership in the face of it. Had she taken responsibility, and gracefully admitted her mistake I am willing to bet she won that election.

Instead, she doubled down and deflected it all. Deflected to how terrible Trump is, and wouldn’t just take some damned responsibility. And, in doing so, she reminded people of her husband, and how he lied to the American public on national television. And, she reminded them of all the responsibility Obama seemingly shirked for 8 years, and how her party called them all names when they tried to speak up for what was right.

Admit it and take responsibilty? You mean like this:

Yep, that really put the issue to bed.

So this was about the people wanting honesty from their politicians... that might have been a plausible story had she lost to John Mccain of Mitt Romney, but she didn't, she lost to Donald Trump... a man who spent his entire campaign telling lie on top of lie on top of lie, blatantly and without the slightest bit of shame and often contradicting his own statements while more or less bragging about how good he was at lying. Which sounds like a more plausible story to you, that people voted for Donald "Obama was born in Kenya" Trump out of a desire for greater honesty in politics or that they blew a dumb irrelevant story about emails beyond out of proportion because they desperately needed an excuse to support the racist demagogue instead of the eminently more qualified woman? Maybe you honestly find the former story more plausible, but you must at least have some sense of why most democrats would find the latter story more likely?

But, sure, continue to dismiss a large portion of the country as dumb. Keep calling them names. Keep sniping away. That's the lazy response, and it will keep you in the frustrating cycle you're in where you're outraged every 4-8 years for 4-8 years. And, it will continue to stay that way, back and forth, over and over, marching the same insane march we keep marching if you continue forward thinking everything is as simple as "oh, they're dumb." Maybe they are, but telling someone who is dumb they're dumb doesn't make them stop being dumb, and their vote counts just as much as yours. Guess who stays frustrated in the end? I highly encourage anyone who reads this and responds dismissively to practice some empathy and re-strategize, think about how much education is valuable, and how you can participate in spreading education and not hatred through insults.'

I also encourage you to see the irony and hypocrisy (I sincerely know this word is tough to hear) in a statement like "Its not hard to be companionate and acceptable of others" after saying Trump was "Completely elected because the stupid fucks decided to vote him in." Again, it can be easy to be dismissive, but "easy" isn't going to solve anything.

Look, if these people didn't want us to think they were dumb they shouldn't have elected someone as wildly and plainly unqualified, corrupt, incompetent, and racist as Trump. There's just no coming back from that, it's completely beyond the range of comprehension. And to then try to re-elect him after four years of... that... what the hell are we supposed to think?

And look, I get the concept of trying to do compassionate outreach to the other side, I'm not completely blind to the fact that calling these people "dumb" out loud might not be the best electoral strategy (which is why you didn't see Joe Biden or much of anyone else running for office saying it), but there are limits to how much people can go through life without calling a spade a spade. And frankly, it's a little bit tiring to watch the left being constantly asked to compromise at every turn and do all sorts of empathetic outreach when the other side doesn't seem to have the slightest interest in trying to do the same. Democrats are constantly trying to be the adults in the room while Republicans act like a single-minded cult of concentrated rage. The New York Times and other outlets ran story after story trying to understand Trump voters in bars and cafes but when was the last time you saw an op-ed in Breitbart or on Fox News tying to "understand" or "reach out" to Democrats?

What I currently find tone deaf about the Democrats now is you have people like Michelle Obama saying shit like "finally, honesty, the truth, and decency are coming back to the White House," and I once again can't eye-roll hard enough at how Dems truly, genuinely, sincerely believe they are the arbiters of high moral ground.

Ummm... you know the previous inhabitant of the white house was Donald "tear gas protestors to stage a photo op where he holds the bible upsidedown" Trump we're talking about here. I'm sorry but when you elect someone like that you've pretty much abandoned the high ground forever. If you truely want to send the message to Democrats that they aren't the decent and truthful ones that is not the way to do it. Quite the opposite in fact. Also, ffs, it's politics, what the hell do you expect her to say.

One of the most outspoken Social Media Slacktivists I know constantly de-cries the plight of the homeless and low-income families being pushed out of their homes - she bought a house in the most gentrified part of the city, sold it for a 700% markup, and now lives in a high rise condo in the middle of downtown Austin. I know that's just one anecdote, but I know plenty of others just like this. I just don't buy it when they tell me how altruistic and caring they are, and that's essentially the political cry of their party.

Exactly how many of this person's possessions do they have to sell before they are deemed sufficiently pure to be able to say they care about homelessness? Must they first give every last penny to charity and live under a bridge? Can they still have a car? Or must they walk everywhere? Because the simple fact is that if we're going to dismiss everyone who cares about improving society as a hypocrite unless they personally suffer themselves basically nothing is ever going get fixed in this country.

I don't disagree with anything you said, but you're looking at this through the lenses of a Democrat, not a Republican. I'm telling you how Republicans see it. I'm telling you how people in the green, libertarian, and other parties see it.

All of what you said could and should have been explained and understood, but where are Republicans going to get that information? These days, there are two primary sources of information that most people get their info from:

1) Mainstream media. Mainstream media has actively undermined people's trust in it by aligning with political parties and seemingly becoming a mouthpiece of a certain part of the government. And both sides and all stations seem to be guilty of this. It's hard to find a neutral source of news that aims to deliver just the facts and let the viewer make up their own mind.

2) Social media. Democrats are total assholes to Republicans. Total. I know this because I'm friends with both on social media. My Republican friends are not happy, but I don't see the same level of cancel culture, silencing, job loss, witch hunting, social media unfriending, "you're no longer welcome in my house you racist," "you're no longer my friend" behavior happening on their side.

So, what do you expect? Most Republicans I know truly have this "live and let live" mentality (which I get is not good enough because the status quo needs to change). Some are racist, sure. Some are sexist, absolutely. I'm sure there are zero racist and sexist Democrats. The Democrats, who are all perfect people who treat everyone they like nicely and attack all the people they see as bad, are proactively trying to shun the "bad people" from society, the workplace, and anywhere else they want a safe space. I feel for the Republicans and how that's scary. I'm related to some of them. I work with some of them. I've seen someone at work attend a Trump rally and get blackballed at work for it. It's scary for them to speak out, to be honest, especially when the narrative is "ok, Trump voter, you aren't racist directly, but you are racist indirectly, and I'm calling your place of work to tell them so you can be fired and homeless."

There's an inherent problem with our society right now. We need to make changes, we need to level the playing field for people of color, gender equality, all that. Every person should have access to the same opportunities and rights. But we can't demonize half the country along the way or we're never going to get there. And that's where I take issue with how Dems specifically are acting, and that's why I say despite the facts of what happened, you have a lot of people feeling attacked, scared, and worried they're going to continue to be attacked, and of course they're going to vote for the guy who comes along and says "Fuck these assholes, we're gonna make this place great for you to live in again."

I can't tell you how much progress would be made if people could just be civil to one another. Not constantly criticize, alienate, call out, but just treat with some decency and kindness. I'm not giving Republicans a pass here, they have their own set of issues that could take up just as much time and words, but I get where they are coming from voting how they vote and refusing to cooperate with Democrats. I understand why they keep clinging to their culture, their people, their village, because the other side is being pretty nasty to them, and they don't want to be friends with them. And as long as the other side keeps saying "well I'm being mean for a REASON," I'm gonna keep nodding at them saying "cool, keep fighting with them then and blaming them for all the lack of progress, genius."

Shit's a mess.

And Biden sucks. So does his VP. We let in two limp wrists of leaders just to get Trump out. I hope it turns out ok and was worth it in the end. I remain unconvinced and remain so until we get out of this insane duopoly.

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Politics Thread Nov 23, 2020 23:08:12 GMT -5

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Post by daniel on Nov 23, 2020 23:08:12 GMT -5

Dracula to your point of "we're going to dismiss everyone who cares about improving society as a hypocrite unless they personally suffer themselves basically nothing is ever going get fixed in this country."

I agree with this statement. I think it would be more effective if people could be honest and fair about it. "I realize I am privileged and contributed to gentrification that pushed the poor people of homes in their family for a number of generations. I realize I am part of the problem, and I want to be part of the solution as well so people can live where and how they choose without getting pushed out by someone like me. I participated in a system that causes that, and here's what I'm doing to fight against that system with the privilege and access to wealth I have."

Instead, it's "you assholes don't care about people. I do. :ook at these poor black families getting pushed out of their generational homes. It's all Republicans and their greed and capitalism and it makes me sick and if you're a Republican who supports capitalism I don't even want to know you anymore."

The point I am making is that the outcry is tone deaf and casts blame and insults at others instead of taking responsibility and internalizing.

Trump suffers HUGELY (heh) from this. So does Hilary. I'm happy to see a video of her fessing up, I never saw that before. There are plenty of videos of Trump repeatedly saying he denounces white supremacy, but people are going to continue to believe their crafted news feeds and claim he supports white supremacy. I probably fell for some of the "Hilary continues to deny email blah blah blah" myself.

It's a non-stop circular argument that one side is better than the other, and our newsfeeds continue to reinforce what we think is true. Deflection, whattaboutism. It's nauseating and frustrating, and I'm at my wit's end with it all.

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Politics Thread Nov 23, 2020 23:39:13 GMT -5 PG Cooper and frankyt like this

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Post by Dracula on Nov 23, 2020 23:39:13 GMT -5

1) Mainstream media. Mainstream media has actively undermined people's trust in it by aligning with political parties and seemingly becoming a mouthpiece of a certain part of the government. And both sides and all stations seem to be guilty of this. It's hard to find a neutral source of news that aims to deliver just the facts and let the viewer make up their own mind.

I think it was Stephen Colbert who said "the truth has a liberal bias." Is there maybe a scintila of truth to the idea that the "mainstream media" is slightly biased toward the left? Maybe, but its a notion that's been blown far out of proportion by the right when in reality the news media regularly shoots itself in the foot by trying to seem neutral when the truth of the matter is that it's next to impossible to report on someone like Trump in a flattering way without actively distorting the truth. You apply simple neutral fact checks on him and it's going to look like they're "biased." There isn't really a lot they can do about it. And it frankly isn't that hard to see that Fox News, Breitbart, etc is outlandishly dishonest propoganda. There isn't an equivilency.

2) Social media. Democrats are total assholes to Republicans. Total. I know this because I'm friends with both on social media.

Dude, try being a black woman on social media and see how "polite" the Republicans are. The left didn't invent "swatting" they don't run around picking fights to call people "snowflakes" and "cucks" and they didn't invent the catchphrase "fuck your feelings." The right has made targeted harassment their modus operandi. You might be freinds with the handful of polite ones. Under Trump the internet has become a cesspool of pepe the frog memes and Qanon conspiracy theories.

My Republican friends are not happy, but I don't see the same level of cancel culture, silencing, job loss, witch hunting, social media unfriending, "you're no longer welcome in my house you racist," "you're no longer my friend" behavior happening on their side.

So, what do you expect? Most Republicans I know truly have this "live and let live" mentality (which I get is not good enough because the status quo needs to change). Some are racist, sure. Some are sexist, absolutely.

Again... this is Trump. What the how the hell do you expect people to react when they say they're supporting a crude racist? Like, how awful does Trump need to be before you'd accept that distancing one's self from a supporter of something like that is a sensible reaction to a truly ugly movement in American society. I'm not sure you quite get how horrifying this guy seems to most of the country, it's like watching the rise of Hitler going on around you and that the only reason it never got to that point is a combination his own incompetance and people rising up to stop it. When you're facing something like that it's kind of hard to just look at someone going along with that and just saying "you do you dude." That just isn't an option.

I'm sure there are zero racist and sexist Democrats. The Democrats, who are all perfect people who treat everyone they like nicely and attack all the people they see as bad, are proactively trying to shun the "bad people" from society, the workplace, and anywhere else they want a safe space.

Dude... Democrats are the most self-critical people on the face of the fucking planet. It's counter-productive how much self-flagellating they do. That "cancel culture" you talk about is almost always directed at other liberals who aren't living up to their ideals. Those "karens" you hear people talking about, they aren't Republicans. "White Fragility" is a best-seller because of how guilty liberals feel about this stuff. Most of the people driven out by the MeToo movement were other Democrats (meanwhile Donald "grab em by the Pussy" Trump is as popular as ever with Republicans). Republicans don't hold themselves to anything close to that kind of standard.