Wyldstaar
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Post by Wyldstaar on Jun 5, 2020 23:51:07 GMT -5
WHY are the police leaning into this?? They KNOW the spotlight is on them, why are they doubling down?? It's what they do. It's what they've always done, and it's always worked in the past. They think it will work again. They might even be right.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jun 6, 2020 1:08:54 GMT -5
WHY are the police leaning into this?? They KNOW the spotlight is on them, why are they doubling down?? It's what they do. It's what they've always done, and it's always worked in the past. They think it will work again. They might even be right. It has worked in the past cause people have a short attention span, but most people have been unemployed & quarantined for the past 2 months and are looking for stuff to do. The fact people are still protesting a week later says that this won’t blow over any time soon.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Jun 6, 2020 9:16:03 GMT -5
Twotter is kind of erupting with rumors tha Lindsey Graham has been hiring Male escorts for years, making then sign NDAs and only refer to him as "Lady G".
No idea if true, but there is some thought/conspiracy that Trump was holding it over him as well.
Probably BS, but you never know.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Jun 6, 2020 9:33:14 GMT -5
Twotter is kind of erupting with rumors tha Lindsey Graham has been hiring Male escorts for years, making then sign NDAs and only refer to him as "Lady G". No idea if true, but there is some thought/conspiracy that Trump was holding it over him as well. Probably BS, but you never know. There have been "rumors" about Lindsey Graham for years and, well, his every mannerism suggests he would be Liberace in another life.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Jun 6, 2020 9:45:16 GMT -5
Twotter is kind of erupting with rumors tha Lindsey Graham has been hiring Male escorts for years, making then sign NDAs and only refer to him as "Lady G". No idea if true, but there is some thought/conspiracy that Trump was holding it over him as well. Probably BS, but you never know. There have been "rumors" about Lindsey Graham for years and, well, his every mannerism suggests he would be Liberace in another life. A lesser man would send this response over to the crazy guy at the AVClub that called you racist yesterday to stoke the flames. But I wouldnt want him over here anyways.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Jun 6, 2020 10:04:31 GMT -5
There have been "rumors" about Lindsey Graham for years and, well, his every mannerism suggests he would be Liberace in another life. A lesser man would send this response over to the crazy guy at the AVClub that called you racist yesterday to stoke the flames. But I wouldnt want him over here anyways. Someday I'll come to my senses and stop commenting on that damn website. Someday.
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Post by Neverending on Jun 6, 2020 11:25:36 GMT -5
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Wyldstaar
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Post by Wyldstaar on Jun 6, 2020 18:19:00 GMT -5
From 12/5/2014
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jun 7, 2020 20:12:20 GMT -5
Mitt Romney joining the protests
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Jun 7, 2020 20:32:35 GMT -5
He's a Massachusetts conservative, it doesn't surprise me.
I'm glad he lost his election, but he wasn't the half the things that were said about him
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Post by Doomsday on Jun 7, 2020 21:50:37 GMT -5
In Veto-Proof Majority, Minneapolis City Council Says It Will Dismantle Police DepartmentListen, I get things are tense and people are ready to come out with guns blazing on any comment they even slightly disagree with. I think with things like this though the overreach has started and when you overreach you lose people who would otherwise sympathize. Dismantling the police department with a system that is TBD, wow. The intentions might be good but the outcome could be disastrous.
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Post by Neverending on Jun 7, 2020 22:50:33 GMT -5
In Veto-Proof Majority, Minneapolis City Council Says It Will Dismantle Police DepartmentListen, I get things are tense and people are ready to come out with guns blazing on any comment they even slightly disagree with. I think with things like this though the overreach has started and when you overreach you lose people who would otherwise sympathize. Dismantling the police department with a system that is TBD, wow. The intentions might be good but the outcome could be disastrous. Don't worry. OCP will take care of it.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Jun 8, 2020 8:11:33 GMT -5
Hard to say given the details are so vague regarding what is actually going to be done. But there are decades worth of scholarship in books and essays arguing for mass criminal justice reform and laying out ways to do so that Minneapolis (and the rest of the country) have available to draw on. I think it's right to be cautious since again, we really have no idea what the city's plan is, but I'm hopeful.
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Post by Neverending on Jun 8, 2020 8:43:53 GMT -5
Hard to say given the details are so vague regarding what is actually going to be done. But there are decades worth of scholarship in books and essays arguing for mass criminal justice reform and laying out ways to do so that Minneapolis (and the rest of the country) have available to draw on. I think it's right to be cautious since again, we really have no idea what the city's plan is, but I'm hopeful. They’ll put Urkelbot in charge
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Jun 8, 2020 13:38:02 GMT -5
It just seems like we've gone very, very quickly from 'police reform' (good idea) to 'defund the police' (hmmm) to 'dismantle the police' (uhhh no). All this is going to do is shift the conversation and make people draw their lines in the sand again.
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Post by Neverending on Jun 8, 2020 14:44:08 GMT -5
It just seems like we've gone very, very quickly from 'police reform' (good idea) to 'defund the police' (hmmm) to 'dismantle the police' (uhhh no). All this is going to do is shift the conversation and make people draw their lines in the sand again. Yeah. We haven’t learned anything from 2016. Does Dracula still think Joe Biden gonna be President? We’re only 5 months away and I think people already forgot there’s an election.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Jun 8, 2020 14:47:59 GMT -5
It just seems like we've gone very, very quickly from 'police reform' (good idea) to 'defund the police' (hmmm) to 'dismantle the police' (uhhh no). All this is going to do is shift the conversation and make people draw their lines in the sand again. Yeah. We haven’t learned anything from 2016. Does Dracula still think Joe Biden gonna be President? We’re only 5 months away and I think people already forgot there’s an election.
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Post by Neverending on Jun 8, 2020 14:58:37 GMT -5
Are these the same polls that predicted Hilary would win?
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Post by Doomsday on Jun 8, 2020 15:06:49 GMT -5
An Obama advisor said a couple weeks ago that if the economy bounces back enough from the shutdown, which it very well could, that'll decide whether Trump sticks around. At this point it's probably the only thing he can hope for. We're 5 months out which is insanely long time election-wise and I don't think we'll be focused on protests and riots come November. Then again who could have predicted we would be where we're at 5 months ago. I think the safest bet is that no one has any clue as to what's going to happen. Trump could very well lose the entire thing due to his increasingly bizarre demeanor but at the same time if there's anyone who knows how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory it's Democrats.
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Post by frankyt on Jun 8, 2020 15:13:22 GMT -5
Biden def needs a thicker mask so when he flubs he can just be like you misheard me.
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Post by Neverending on Jun 8, 2020 15:23:04 GMT -5
An Obama advisor said a couple weeks ago that if the economy bounces back enough from the shutdown, which it very well could, that'll decide whether Trump sticks around. At this point it's probably the only thing he can hope for at this point. We're 5 months out which is insanely long time election-wise and I don't think we'll be focused on protests and riots come November. Then again who could have predicted we would be where we're at 5 months ago. I think the safest bet is that no one has any clue as to what's going to happen. Trump could very well lose the entire thing due to his increasingly bizarre demeanor but at the same time if there's anyone who knows how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory it's Democrats. The best decision Biden made these past two months is not announce Amy Klobushar as his Vice President. Imagine the disaster that would have been.
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Post by PG Cooper on Jun 8, 2020 15:55:52 GMT -5
It just seems like we've gone very, very quickly from 'police reform' (good idea) to 'defund the police' (hmmm) to 'dismantle the police' (uhhh no). All this is going to do is shift the conversation and make people draw their lines in the sand again. Because people have been calling for police reform for decades. More diversity hires, sensitivity training, body cameras, and black people are still murdered without end. If police will not be held accountable then perhaps police are the problem. That doesn't mean abolishing the police literally means a complete dismantling of law enforcement. Defunding would mean more money for social programs, education, healthcare, etc. It's pretty wild that so many hospitals and healthcare providers have continuously needed to scrounge for resources in responding to COVID, meanwhile police departments have easily reenacted all their favourite scenes of tyrannical police states from dystopic science-fiction. Defunding would also mean less officers out on patrol looking for someone to punish. Law enforcement would be more reactive. You might argue law should be more proactive in stopping crimes before the happen, but that's a dangerous slope that quickly leads to the erosion of civil liberties. Moreover, my retort would simply be that investing more into the social programs, education and healthcare is the proactive effort in preventing crime. Eliminating the conditions that drive people to crime does reduce crime. You can still have detectives to investigate things like murder cases or special S.W.A.T teams specifically trained for responding to a shooter, but you lose the squad car cruising a bad neighborhood looking for someone to stop. The argument is that reform that's built on educating officers to be better doesn't work. A psych eval and a six week course on racism isn't gonna convince a guy who already thinks it's okay to choke out an unarmed black man to not do that. What does work is limiting police power. For that matter, not all cops need guns. A team trained to stop an active shooter? Definitely. A guy who pulls you over because your tail light is busted? Probably not.
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Post by Doomsday on Jun 8, 2020 16:27:03 GMT -5
It just seems like we've gone very, very quickly from 'police reform' (good idea) to 'defund the police' (hmmm) to 'dismantle the police' (uhhh no). All this is going to do is shift the conversation and make people draw their lines in the sand again. Because people have been calling for police reform for decades. More diversity hires, sensitivity training, body cameras, and black people are still murdered without end. If police will not be held accountable then perhaps police are the problem. That doesn't mean abolishing the police literally means a complete dismantling of law enforcement. Defunding would mean more money for social programs, education, healthcare, etc. It's pretty wild that so many hospitals and healthcare providers have continuously needed to scrounge for resources in responding to COVID, meanwhile police departments have easily reenacted all their favourite scenes of tyrannical police states from dystopic science-fiction. Defunding would also mean less officers out on patrol looking for someone to punish. Law enforcement would be more reactive. You might argue law should be more proactive in stopping crimes before the happen, but that's a dangerous slope that quickly leads to the erosion of civil liberties. Moreover, my retort would simply be that investing more into the social programs, education and healthcare is the proactive effort in preventing crime. Eliminating the conditions that drive people to crime does reduce crime. You can still have detectives to investigate things like murder cases or special S.W.A.T teams specifically trained for responding to a shooter, but you lose the squad car cruising a bad neighborhood looking for someone to stop. The argument is that reform that's built on educating officers to be better doesn't work. A psych eval and a six week course on racism isn't gonna convince a guy who already thinks it's okay to choke out an unarmed black man to not do that. What does work is limiting police power. For that matter, not all cops need guns. A team trained to stop an active shooter? Definitely. A guy who pulls you over because your tail light is busted? Probably not. I don't necessarily disagree, I think spending more on certain social programs would have its benefits. My concern is that I don't think there's a ton of data on what happens if you completely dismantle a police department in a major city. I know people have been quick to correct that 'defunding' doesn't mean taking all money away, it means reallocating certain funds, that I understand to a certain degree. 'Dismantling' though like they voted for in Minneapolis, I don't see a lot of good coming out of that. I mean what's the result supposed to be? People can say they'll get counselors for homeless people and treat drug addicts but that doesn't answer the question of what happens when a prowler breaks into someone's house. How does no police department or an underfunded police department deal with, and also deter, violent crime? I really would be curious to see what the answer would be but I wonder if it would be one that's realistic. Here's something I saw posted on Facebook. It's a few hypothetical scenarios for what a non-police response would look like for certain crimes. Naturally a lot of the responses are mockery because the 'solutions' come off as a little...silly? I dunno, it's going to take a lot of convincing to get people to jump aboard the 'dismantling' train. Even 'defunding' is going to get people a little worried. m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10215654114001208&id=1092450204
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Deexan
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Post by Deexan on Jun 8, 2020 17:15:44 GMT -5
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Post by PG Cooper on Jun 8, 2020 17:37:52 GMT -5
Because people have been calling for police reform for decades. More diversity hires, sensitivity training, body cameras, and black people are still murdered without end. If police will not be held accountable then perhaps police are the problem. That doesn't mean abolishing the police literally means a complete dismantling of law enforcement. Defunding would mean more money for social programs, education, healthcare, etc. It's pretty wild that so many hospitals and healthcare providers have continuously needed to scrounge for resources in responding to COVID, meanwhile police departments have easily reenacted all their favourite scenes of tyrannical police states from dystopic science-fiction. Defunding would also mean less officers out on patrol looking for someone to punish. Law enforcement would be more reactive. You might argue law should be more proactive in stopping crimes before the happen, but that's a dangerous slope that quickly leads to the erosion of civil liberties. Moreover, my retort would simply be that investing more into the social programs, education and healthcare is the proactive effort in preventing crime. Eliminating the conditions that drive people to crime does reduce crime. You can still have detectives to investigate things like murder cases or special S.W.A.T teams specifically trained for responding to a shooter, but you lose the squad car cruising a bad neighborhood looking for someone to stop. The argument is that reform that's built on educating officers to be better doesn't work. A psych eval and a six week course on racism isn't gonna convince a guy who already thinks it's okay to choke out an unarmed black man to not do that. What does work is limiting police power. For that matter, not all cops need guns. A team trained to stop an active shooter? Definitely. A guy who pulls you over because your tail light is busted? Probably not. I don't necessarily disagree, I think spending more on certain social programs would have its benefits. My concern is that I don't think there's a ton of data on what happens if you completely dismantle a police department in a major city. I know people have been quick to correct that 'defunding' doesn't mean taking all money away, it means reallocating certain funds, that I understand to a certain degree. 'Dismantling' though like they voted for in Minneapolis, I don't see a lot of good coming out of that. I mean what's the result supposed to be? People can say they'll get counselors for homeless people and treat drug addicts but that doesn't answer the question of what happens when a prowler breaks into someone's house. How does no police department or an underfunded police department deal with, and also deter, violent crime? I really would be curious to see what the answer would be but I wonder if it would be one that's realistic. Here's something I saw posted on Facebook. It's a few hypothetical scenarios for what a non-police response would look like for certain crimes. Naturally a lot of the responses are mockery because the 'solutions' come off as a little...silly? I dunno, it's going to take a lot of convincing to get people to jump aboard the 'dismantling' train. Even 'defunding' is going to get people a little worried. m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10215654114001208&id=1092450204To be clear I'm not necessarily an advocate for dismantling (though where exactly I stand on policing has been challenged a lot over the last few years and in recent weeks especially). And to be sure, actually navigating this sort of change is tricky and I'd be lying if I said I had a straightforward answer. But I do think serious ethical change is going to have to go further than reform. We've had varying degrees of reform for decades and it's clearly not enough. Much as some of my countrymen wanna boast about how much better things are in Canada, it's a distinction of degrees (or celsius for you Americans). I don't want law enforcement completely dismantled. I'd still like teams trained to deal with things like shootings or robberies or other violent crimes. I'd like detectives who investigate violent crimes like murders. And yeah, I'd like trained social workers and therapists who could deal with mental health episodes or suicide attempts. I don't think it should just be every one for themselves. But I also think limiting which cops actually carry guns is a huge and necessary step. As for an underfunded police department, I'm not sure what it would actually require for a department to be underfunded. A lot of the figures I've seen show a massive disproportionate amount of a city's money directed to the cops and I can't help but be suspicious how much of that is necessary. Especially since the areas that see the most aggressive policing are the ones which see higher crime, typically because they're poor and underfunded. Allocate the resources to those areas and they don't need to be policed as strongly. I also think it's worth asking how many times in your life you've really needed the cops. I can say I've called the cops myself exactly once, back in undergrad when a roommate's abusive boyfriend was screaming at her and when we had intervened in the past he threatened to attack us and punched a hole through one guy's room. The cop came and talked to the abuser then left 10 minutes later (and the next day my roommate bitched me out for not being considerate of her and her boyfriend's needs. Fuck me did that year suck). Point I'm making is the scary violent crimes a lot of us are afraid of aren't so common as to require the massive influx of funding currently allocated to police departments. I think you can still have responses to those types of crimes whilst still defunding. As for deterring violent crime, so far statistics on whether or not police actually deter crime is messy and contradictory so it's hard to really say. But even a defunded police force would still mean a criminal justice system that would punish people who break laws, though that opens up another complex debate about the prison industrial complex. Fun stuff.
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