Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Jun 18, 2017 1:13:29 GMT -5
I don't care what people call Trump at this point, I'm talking about the labeling of people on one side of the aisle or the other. Over the past 8-10 years Republicans, right or wrong, have convinced enough people that they're getting screwed and that voting Republican is the only thing that can help them. Obamacare is screwing them. Illegal immigrants are screwing them. Muslims are screwing them. Their first amendment rights are being taken away. Republicans have played the 'you're getting screwed and we're here to help' line pretty well which is one of the reasons why a lot of people in the middle have gone over to their side for the time being. On the flip side, Democrats have tried to shame people into voting for them. You'll never get someone to vote for your ticket by calling them a racist but Democrats labor under this notion. It's one of the reasons why one party was able to put one of the most unpopular nominees in American history into the White House while the other party has had its ass kicked repeatedly at every level of government for the better part of a decade and you can't blame 'racism/sexism/fill-in-the-blank-ism' for that. If Democrats want to win and more importantly want to make it sustainable they have to stop waiting for Republicans to shit the bed and start coming up with new, fresh ideas.
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Post by Ramplate on Jun 18, 2017 3:28:13 GMT -5
There is no shortage of historical demagogues to draw from. When the use of Hilter/Nazis is so overused that it inspires the invention of the first internet adage (Godwin's Law), it's time to seek examples elsewhere. You can just refer to Trump as Putin's bitch. Or what Steven Colbert called him lol Putin's cock holster.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Jun 18, 2017 7:52:06 GMT -5
I don't care what people call Trump at this point, I'm talking about the labeling of people on one side of the aisle or the other. Over the past 8-10 years Republicans, right or wrong, have convinced enough people that they're getting screwed and that voting Republican is the only thing that can help them. Obamacare is screwing them. Illegal immigrants are screwing them. Muslims are screwing them. Their first amendment rights are being taken away. Republicans have played the 'you're getting screwed and we're here to help' line pretty well which is one of the reasons why a lot of people in the middle have gone over to their side for the time being. On the flip side, Democrats have tried to shame people into voting for them. You'll never get someone to vote for your ticket by calling them a racist but Democrats labor under this notion. It's one of the reasons why one party was able to put one of the most unpopular nominees in American history into the White House while the other party has had its ass kicked repeatedly at every level of government for the better part of a decade and you can't blame 'racism/sexism/fill-in-the-blank-ism' for that. If Democrats want to win and more importantly want to make it sustainable they have to stop waiting for Republicans to shit the bed and start coming up with new, fresh ideas. ...and this is why we call them racists. It's like an entire party wants to prove that they aren't stupid and racist by doing a whole bunch of stupid and racist things.
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Wyldstaar
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Post by Wyldstaar on Jun 18, 2017 8:26:09 GMT -5
Yes, but dictators aren't interchangeable like that. Stalin was far from being a populist outsider and didn't rise to power by stoking people's prejudices to get himself elected, he gained power through internal party machinations after having been among the victors of a violent revolution. The parallels aren't really there. The parallels are there, they're just not everywhere. The same is true for Adolf. Hilter was a born into a poor family and fought in The Great War, while Trump was born wealthy and dodged the Vietnam draft with "bone spurs". Hitler encountered constant difficulties that he couldn't overcome as a young man after The War because of the devastated economy of Germany, while Trump enjoyed every advantage the combination of his daddy's money and the economic boom of the 80's could offer. Hitler joined a fringe group with anti-establishment ideas that he was eventually thrown into prison for, while Trump embraced the established order (remember, he didn't become fringe until late in life). Stalin was a narcissist who demanded that all images of himself be depicted as looking tall and having "powerful" hands. Stalin labeled anyone who didn't approve of his ideas as an "enemy of the people". Stalin blamed his nation's problems on "bourgeois specialists" and "wreckers" who must be removed from society. Stalin embraced absurd conspiracy theories about far reaching, anti-government networks bent on destroying him. Stalin told outrageous lies that were easily proven to be false by the most casual of observers. Stalin had media outlets dedicated to propagating his ideals and presenting his every word as though it were the obvious truth. Stalin believed in fringe scientific theories that were scoffed at by the rest of the world, and only provided funding and government support to those ideas at the expense of reality. Stalin was his own worst enemy- Every time his ideas utterly failed, he would double down and make the existing problem even worse, both for himself and his nation. Sound familiar?
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Jun 18, 2017 9:53:31 GMT -5
Yes, but dictators aren't interchangeable like that. Stalin was far from being a populist outsider and didn't rise to power by stoking people's prejudices to get himself elected, he gained power through internal party machinations after having been among the victors of a violent revolution. The parallels aren't really there. The parallels are there, they're just not everywhere. The same is true for Adolf. Hilter was a born into a poor family and fought in The Great War, while Trump was born wealthy and dodged the Vietnam draft with "bone spurs". Hitler encountered constant difficulties that he couldn't overcome as a young man after The War because of the devastated economy of Germany, while Trump enjoyed every advantage the combination of his daddy's money and the economic boom of the 80's could offer. Hitler joined a fringe group with anti-establishment ideas that he was eventually thrown into prison for, while Trump embraced the established order (remember, he didn't become fringe until late in life). Stalin was a narcissist who demanded that all images of himself be depicted as looking tall and having "powerful" hands. Stalin labeled anyone who didn't approve of his ideas as an "enemy of the people". Stalin blamed his nation's problems on "bourgeois specialists" and "wreckers" who must be removed from society. Stalin embraced absurd conspiracy theories about far reaching, anti-government networks bent on destroying him. Stalin told outrageous lies that were easily proven to be false by the most casual of observers. Stalin had media outlets dedicated to propagating his ideals and presenting his every word as though it were the obvious truth. Stalin believed in fringe scientific theories that were scoffed at by the rest of the world, and only provided funding and government support to those ideas at the expense of reality. Stalin was his own worst enemy- Every time his ideas utterly failed, he would double down and make the existing problem even worse, both for himself and his nation. Sound familiar? A lot of those Stalin things sound like pretty standard-issue dictator behavior though. It's that rise to power as a populist who appeals to people's prejudices that make Trump and Hitler stand out.
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Wyldstaar
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Post by Wyldstaar on Jun 18, 2017 11:13:23 GMT -5
A lot of those Stalin things sound like pretty standard-issue dictator behavior though. It's that rise to power as a populist who appeals to people's prejudices that make Trump and Hitler stand out. You say that as though being a standard issue dictator isn't such a bad thing. It's an awful thing, and it's something Trump has openly embraced. He loves the idea of being a dictator, and admires them publicly. He also openly mocks and ridicules the democratically elected leaders of allies.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Jun 18, 2017 11:41:30 GMT -5
A lot of those Stalin things sound like pretty standard-issue dictator behavior though. It's that rise to power as a populist who appeals to people's prejudices that make Trump and Hitler stand out. You say that as though being a standard issue dictator isn't such a bad thing. It's an awful thing, and it's something Trump has openly embraced. He loves the idea of being a dictator, and admires them publicly. He also openly mocks and ridicules the democratically elected leaders of allies. Yeah but I feel like the fact that Trump was (sort of) elected along with his specific focus on xenophobia along with his calls to return to a previous golden age make him a lot more Hitler-like.
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Wyldstaar
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Post by Wyldstaar on Jun 18, 2017 13:13:38 GMT -5
You say that as though being a standard issue dictator isn't such a bad thing. It's an awful thing, and it's something Trump has openly embraced. He loves the idea of being a dictator, and admires them publicly. He also openly mocks and ridicules the democratically elected leaders of allies. Yeah but I feel like the fact that Trump was (sort of) elected along with his specific focus on xenophobia along with his calls to return to a previous golden age make him a lot more Hitler-like. I'm not saying he isn't. He certainly is, but that's not the point. People do not react well to any comparisons to Hitler. It doesn't matter how appropriate it may be. The countless idiots who compare anyone they don't like to Hitler on a daily basis have delegitimized doing so. That's just the reality of the situation. It doesn't matter if you feel the comparison is justified.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Jun 18, 2017 14:07:17 GMT -5
Yeah but I feel like the fact that Trump was (sort of) elected along with his specific focus on xenophobia along with his calls to return to a previous golden age make him a lot more Hitler-like. I'm not saying he isn't. He certainly is, but that's not the point. People do not react well to any comparisons to Hitler. It doesn't matter how appropriate it may be. The countless idiots who compare anyone they don't like to Hitler on a daily basis have delegitimized doing so. That's just the reality of the situation. It doesn't matter if you feel the comparison is justified. Look if the shoe fits the shoe fits. I'm sorry if that hurts certain people's feelings but the truth is the truth. Also please note that I'm not a Democratic candidate or a professional journalist, I'm a dude on the internet with 32 Twitter followers, I don't feel too much of an obligation to "stay on message."
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Ramplate
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Post by Ramplate on Jun 19, 2017 5:31:26 GMT -5
It has made the Trumpanzees more abrasive towards the opposition, but they seem to be delusionally behind Trump ... Like the people who first followed Hitler (there's that name again).
They've bought the propaganda lock, stock, and barrel, and don't see the other shoe falling yet. It may take a drastically bad action by Trump to make that happen, until then, they'll keep in lock step, and treat him like a martyr if he gets put down.
There are quite a few at near fanatical level.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jun 19, 2017 7:17:39 GMT -5
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Ramplate
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Post by Ramplate on Jun 20, 2017 10:21:47 GMT -5
Flynn apparently forgot to list another contact on his security forms. He went to Saudi Arabia to broker some sort of deal between US and Russia? Or with the two? Not sure, but it had something to do with nuclear power.
Manafort is also in very much deeper doo doo.
Each item all of these people left off their security declarations is a felony and can carry a five year prison sentence.
Trump, as usual is having a problem handing over any paperwork. While his new Lawyer went to the weekend news circuit to try to say Trump is not a target of investigation, and Chris Wallace of fox News actually pressed him for saying Trump WAS under investigation twice in his explanation. Lol.
Now Spicer might be transferred away from his speaking duties to another job. That's just as well seeing as how the press briefings are now once a week, and no press is allowed to film or record the Press Secretary's announcements. Its all gone "Deep Throat" top secret meetings in a parking garage kind of deal lol
In other news, I. Tweeted Trump this morning for outright lying about the Democratic candidate in today's Georgia special election.
And since Mitch McConnell doesn't Tweet, I sent an email to his office to tell him I was going to call him a forest class jerk, but he's not a first class anything. Lol
I went on to say how un-American he was acting in hiding the insurance bill until the last moment and calling for a vote before July 4th. In this America, this Democracy, we openly discuss complicated bills so everyone has time to read and understand and then openly debate changes so everyone is satisfied and can in good consciousness vote for a good bill for all Americans.
Smarten up and stop acting like Saddam Hussein.
I'm gonna get so many people visiting me, and get on the no fly list lol
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Post by Neverending on Jun 20, 2017 13:59:06 GMT -5
Mexico legalized medical marijuana
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jun 20, 2017 20:08:27 GMT -5
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Jun 20, 2017 20:27:00 GMT -5
Nvm. That's pretty awesome.
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Post by Jibbs on Jun 20, 2017 21:47:52 GMT -5
wut
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Post by Neverending on Jun 20, 2017 21:58:01 GMT -5
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Post by Ramplate on Jun 22, 2017 12:08:11 GMT -5
John Oliver, a giant squirrel and a defamation lawsuit by a coal industry titanLast Week Tonight” host John Oliver knew he was inviting a legal battle when he used his show Sunday to lambaste one of the country’s largest coal mining companies and mock its chief executive. But it had to be done, he said. In a 24-minute segment on the decline of the coal industry and President Trump’s tenuous promises to bring it back, Oliver railed against the mining giant Murray Energy Corporation and chief executive Robert E. Murray, who has blamed the industry’s troubles on an “evil agenda” by President Barack Obama. Before he got going, Oliver offered up a proviso. “I’m going to need to be careful here,” he said, “because when we contacted Murray Energy for this piece, they sent us a letter instructing us to ‘cease and desist from any effort to defame, harass, or otherwise injure Mr. Murray or Murray Energy,’ and telling us that ‘failure to do so will result in immediate litigation.’” Then he tore into the 77-year-old coal magnate. Murray looked like a “geriatric Dr. Evil,” he said, who mistreated his employees and tried to weaken coal safety regulations through litigation. He suggested Murray was “on the same side as black lung” and criticized his response to a deadly 2007 mine accident in Utah found to have been caused by safety violations. He called up a satirical article in the United Mine Workers of America’s journal that described a squirrel hopping onto Murray’s porch and telling him, “You should be operating your very own mines” (the company said this was not, in fact, a true story). Finally, in a stunt fit only for late night television, Oliver brought out a man in a giant squirrel costume and paraded him around the stage. “Bob Murray, I didn’t really plan for so much of this piece to be about you, but you kinda forced my hand on that one,” Oliver said. “And I know you’re probably going to sue me over this. But, you know what? I stand by everything I said.” On Wednesday, Murray did sue Oliver for defamation, along with HBO and Time Warner. The lawsuit, filed in West Virginia circuit court, accuses Oliver of carrying out a “meticulously planned attempt to assassinate the character and reputation” of Murray and broadcasting false statements about his company to HBO’s 134 million paying subscribers. The goal is to allow Murray, who is said to be gravely ill, to “set the record straight,” the complaint says. “Nothing has ever stressed him more than this vicious and untruthful attack,” it says, adding that Oliver’s segment was an attempt to advance “biases against the coal industry” and “disdain for the coal-related policies of the Trump Administration.” Robert Murray, chief executive of Murray Energy Corp., speaks in his office at the Crandall Canyon Mine, in Huntington, Utah, in 2007.© AP Photo/Jae C. Hong, File Robert Murray, chief executive of Murray Energy Corp., speaks in his office at the Crandall Canyon Mine, in Huntington, Utah, in 2007. When Oliver’s writers contacted Murray Energy for comment before airing the segment, the company’s representatives warned them that they were using outdated information and discredited reports to support the show’s arguments, according to the complaint. Nevertheless, it says, Oliver ignored other materials Murray Energy provided that might have set him straight. The lawsuit claims that Oliver deliberately omitted facts offered by Murray Energy that, in the company’s view, contradicted Oliver’s account of the mining accident in Utah. Murray and his company have argued that an earthquake, not dangerous mining, triggered the collapse of the Crandall Canyon Mine, which killed nine miners. Murray’s complaint also addresses the squirrel episode: In reference to Mr. Murray’s denial of an absurd story that Mr. Murray claimed a squirrel told him he should operate his own mines, Defendant Oliver stated, “You know what, I actually believe Murray on that one” and “Even by your standard that would be a pretty ridiculous thing to say.” This implied that Mr. Murray lied about other, more important matters, such as the cause of the mine collapse, and that he treated the affected families with “honesty, sincerity and compassion.” The complaint alleges one count each of defamation, false light invasion of privacy and intentional infliction of emotional distress. It seeks financial damages and an injunction barring the rebroadcast of Oliver’s segment. In an emailed statement Wednesday, Murray Energy said the company sent letters earlier this month to Oliver, Time Warner and HBO, then held a conference call with their counsel on Saturday to “correct what we knew of their proposed false and destructive broadcast.” The defendants “ignored our communications and, instead, continued to baselessly and maliciously attack the character of Mr. Murray and Murray Energy, with no factual basis whatsoever,” the statement read. Spokesmen for Time Warner and HBO did not immediately respond to a message seeking comment Thursday morning. Murray is known for aggressively suing journalists and media organizations that run critical content about him and his companies. Between 2001 and 2015, he filed at least nine lawsuits against journalists and news outlets that published a negative advertisement from an activist group, claiming they maligned his character and threatened his employees’ jobs, according to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Most if not all never went to trial. In 2013, he sued the Huffington Post and a blogger for defamation over a story that called him an “extremist coal baron” and criticized his donations to a gubernatorial candidate. The case was dismissed the following year. In May, Murray Energy sued the New York Times for libel after the newspaper published an editorial accusing the CEO of lying about the Crandall Canyon Mine and calling the company a “serial violator” of federal health and safety rules. Murray is also suing a corporate intelligence firm for disseminating articles that used anonymous sources to report on the company’s discussions with debt holders. The firm, Reorg Research Inc., is fighting a court order to reveal the sources.
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Ramplate
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Post by Ramplate on Jun 22, 2017 15:47:38 GMT -5
The Republican Senate Healthcare Bill was just unveiled.
The official name of it is...
Elimination of limitation on Recapture of Excess of Payments of Premium Tax Credits
That's not a Healthcare Bill, that's a Tax Bill
Its almost a carbon copy of the House Bill. It gives billions in tax breaks to people who make more than $200,000 a year, and reduces quality and quantity of coverage which will cost higher premiums for those who can least afford them and need the most healthcare. This reduces Medicaid at a slower rate than the House Bill, but it still cuts out a monetary figure even larger than the amount of tax breaks it gives to the rich
i.e. complete and utter bullshit.
Mitch McConnell's office hallway was already packed full of people in wheelchairs, and so on. They were removed by police.
======= Also today, Trump finally said he has no tapes of his conversation with Comey. Took the idiot 5.5 weeks to finally say that!
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frankyt
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Post by frankyt on Jun 22, 2017 19:06:33 GMT -5
Man that's just a vindictive very cold bill. If this passes there will seriously be some pain. Wonder if it'll change votes though to be honest.
Single payer is the only way, major Medicaid changes don't take root until 2020 though, so new admin presumably would be blamed. So sneaky.
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Ramplate
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Post by Ramplate on Jun 23, 2017 1:15:35 GMT -5
Yeah there was some speculation that the CBO report only goes out ten years with its projection, and won't involve the cuts 20 years out
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Post by Neverending on Jun 24, 2017 1:45:39 GMT -5
John Oliver, a giant squirrel and a defamation lawsuit by a coal industry titanLast Week Tonight” host John Oliver knew he was inviting a legal battle when he used his show Sunday to lambaste one of the country’s largest coal mining companies and mock its chief executive. But it had to be done, he said. In a 24-minute segment on the decline of the coal industry and President Trump’s tenuous promises to bring it back, Oliver railed against the mining giant Murray Energy Corporation and chief executive Robert E. Murray, who has blamed the industry’s troubles on an “evil agenda” by President Barack Obama. Before he got going, Oliver offered up a proviso. “I’m going to need to be careful here,” he said, “because when we contacted Murray Energy for this piece, they sent us a letter instructing us to ‘cease and desist from any effort to defame, harass, or otherwise injure Mr. Murray or Murray Energy,’ and telling us that ‘failure to do so will result in immediate litigation.’” Then he tore into the 77-year-old coal magnate. Murray looked like a “geriatric Dr. Evil,” he said, who mistreated his employees and tried to weaken coal safety regulations through litigation. He suggested Murray was “on the same side as black lung” and criticized his response to a deadly 2007 mine accident in Utah found to have been caused by safety violations. He called up a satirical article in the United Mine Workers of America’s journal that described a squirrel hopping onto Murray’s porch and telling him, “You should be operating your very own mines” (the company said this was not, in fact, a true story). Finally, in a stunt fit only for late night television, Oliver brought out a man in a giant squirrel costume and paraded him around the stage. “Bob Murray, I didn’t really plan for so much of this piece to be about you, but you kinda forced my hand on that one,” Oliver said. “And I know you’re probably going to sue me over this. But, you know what? I stand by everything I said.” On Wednesday, Murray did sue Oliver for defamation, along with HBO and Time Warner. The lawsuit, filed in West Virginia circuit court, accuses Oliver of carrying out a “meticulously planned attempt to assassinate the character and reputation” of Murray and broadcasting false statements about his company to HBO’s 134 million paying subscribers. The goal is to allow Murray, who is said to be gravely ill, to “set the record straight,” the complaint says. “Nothing has ever stressed him more than this vicious and untruthful attack,” it says, adding that Oliver’s segment was an attempt to advance “biases against the coal industry” and “disdain for the coal-related policies of the Trump Administration.” Robert Murray, chief executive of Murray Energy Corp., speaks in his office at the Crandall Canyon Mine, in Huntington, Utah, in 2007.© AP Photo/Jae C. Hong, File Robert Murray, chief executive of Murray Energy Corp., speaks in his office at the Crandall Canyon Mine, in Huntington, Utah, in 2007. When Oliver’s writers contacted Murray Energy for comment before airing the segment, the company’s representatives warned them that they were using outdated information and discredited reports to support the show’s arguments, according to the complaint. Nevertheless, it says, Oliver ignored other materials Murray Energy provided that might have set him straight. The lawsuit claims that Oliver deliberately omitted facts offered by Murray Energy that, in the company’s view, contradicted Oliver’s account of the mining accident in Utah. Murray and his company have argued that an earthquake, not dangerous mining, triggered the collapse of the Crandall Canyon Mine, which killed nine miners. Murray’s complaint also addresses the squirrel episode: In reference to Mr. Murray’s denial of an absurd story that Mr. Murray claimed a squirrel told him he should operate his own mines, Defendant Oliver stated, “You know what, I actually believe Murray on that one” and “Even by your standard that would be a pretty ridiculous thing to say.” This implied that Mr. Murray lied about other, more important matters, such as the cause of the mine collapse, and that he treated the affected families with “honesty, sincerity and compassion.” The complaint alleges one count each of defamation, false light invasion of privacy and intentional infliction of emotional distress. It seeks financial damages and an injunction barring the rebroadcast of Oliver’s segment. In an emailed statement Wednesday, Murray Energy said the company sent letters earlier this month to Oliver, Time Warner and HBO, then held a conference call with their counsel on Saturday to “correct what we knew of their proposed false and destructive broadcast.” The defendants “ignored our communications and, instead, continued to baselessly and maliciously attack the character of Mr. Murray and Murray Energy, with no factual basis whatsoever,” the statement read. Spokesmen for Time Warner and HBO did not immediately respond to a message seeking comment Thursday morning. Murray is known for aggressively suing journalists and media organizations that run critical content about him and his companies. Between 2001 and 2015, he filed at least nine lawsuits against journalists and news outlets that published a negative advertisement from an activist group, claiming they maligned his character and threatened his employees’ jobs, according to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Most if not all never went to trial. In 2013, he sued the Huffington Post and a blogger for defamation over a story that called him an “extremist coal baron” and criticized his donations to a gubernatorial candidate. The case was dismissed the following year. In May, Murray Energy sued the New York Times for libel after the newspaper published an editorial accusing the CEO of lying about the Crandall Canyon Mine and calling the company a “serial violator” of federal health and safety rules. Murray is also suing a corporate intelligence firm for disseminating articles that used anonymous sources to report on the company’s discussions with debt holders. The firm, Reorg Research Inc., is fighting a court order to reveal the sources.
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Ramplate
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Post by Ramplate on Jun 24, 2017 5:10:48 GMT -5
All this time Trump has said he didn't believe that the Russians tried to interfere with the election, but at about eight o'clock last night he tweeted...
Donald J. Trump @realdonaldtrump 9h
Just out: The Obama Administration knew far in advance of November 8th about election meddling by Russia. Did nothing about it. WHY?
He also answered some questions by a reporter, saying that he tweeted 'Comey better not have taped his conversation' in order to get him to tell the truth in his testimony.
OK, well that could add to the argument that Trump tried to intimidate a witness, which is illegal.
Also in that question session, Trump remarked that Independent Counselor Muller and Comey are good friends - hinting at a possible conflict in his ability to be impartial. It still seems to irk Trump that he and his cabinet members are still being investigated. Which probably means he still, against advice, wants Muller fired.
Trump has come out in favor of the healthcare bill, even though he promised time and time again that he would not let Medicaid be cut.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Jun 26, 2017 20:40:54 GMT -5
I normally hate Elizabeth Warren (her ideas on economics are awful), but she put put a very important video last night on her FB that I urge everyone to watch.
My high school classmate Marika and her husband have a 2 yr old son who's been on a feeding tube all his life. Already the medical costs have been $4 million during that time. Both she and her husband have well paying jobs, but there is no way her kid would be alive now if it weren't for Medicaid.
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Post by Neverending on Jun 28, 2017 23:30:35 GMT -5
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