Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jul 6, 2023 16:25:05 GMT -5
I'd rather us sitting here talking about how the movie was pretty good even if it's a diet Last Crusade than us saying how it's middling and only slightly better than Crystal Skull. Diet Last Crusade is no different than Diet New Hope. Look how people have turned on Force Awakens and now praise the prequels cause “it’s different.” This movie needed to take chances. Give it a year or two. People will say Crystal Skull was better and Doomsday and Dave Filoni will retcon the series. “No. Mutt is alive. He was just held as a prisoner in Vietnam and got rescued by Short Round!” Literally make Sallah that character and everything that unfolds after has actual impact and meaning. Guilt for Indy for pushing his friend into one last rodeo and the results that happen. Yeah, but who gets ice cream at the end? Antonio Banderas?!
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Jul 6, 2023 19:55:01 GMT -5
Diet Last Crusade is no different than Diet New Hope. Look how people have turned on Force Awakens and now praise the prequels cause “it’s different.” This movie needed to take chances. Give it a year or two. People will say Crystal Skull was better and Doomsday and Dave Filoni will retcon the series. “No. Mutt is alive. He was just held as a prisoner in Vietnam and got rescued by Short Round!” I actually can't disagree with you there. People -- including myself who doesn't like the prequels still on a recent rewatch -- do seem to have a more forgiving tone for those movies now because they actually tried to stand on their own legs and not just regurgitate the original trilogy unlike the Disney movies. The prequels and Crystal Skull -- which I also recently rewatched -- are not good movies but they are memorable for their whacky absurdity (fridge scene, monkey swinging scene, Jar Jar, basically every moment in Attack of the Clones) so I guess that's better than being safe and boring. Does that actually make Crystal Skull better than Dial of Destiny because it was more adventurous? I don't think so, but I think you're right that the sentiment towards it might change or in the least it'll be ranked higher than Dial of Destiny. The Kennedy regime is not winning over anybody with these play it safe films, and I for one would not be sad to see someone else take the reins over at Lucasfilm. And would I be up for a Mutt/Short Round movie? Fuck yes I would. Fuck yes I would. Rewatching all the Indy movies before this one, while Temple of Doom has its shortcomings (thanks to the team that would soon us bring us Howard the Duck) one thing for sure is that Short Round fucking rocks. Indy is kind of a dope in Temple of Doom, and Short Round is there to bail him out every step of the way. Remember that scene where Short Round punches the shit out of that little prince while Indy is decking a guy? Short Round is the best sidekick of the bunch. That's right, better than Sean Connery. I fucking said it.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jul 6, 2023 21:33:01 GMT -5
Rewatching all the Indy movies before this one, while Temple of Doom has its shortcomings (thanks to the team that would soon us bring us Howard the Duck) one thing for sure is that Short Round fucking rocks. Indy is kind of a dope in Temple of Doom, and Short Round is there to bail him out every step of the way. Remember that scene where Short Round punches the shit out of that little prince while Indy is decking a guy? Short Round is the best sidekick of the bunch. That's right, better than Sean Connery. I fucking said it. No one will disagree that Short Round is the best sidekick. And I look forward to Doomsday's Short Round TV series on Disney Plus. But Sean Connery wasn't necessarily there to be the "sidekick." He was there to play off Harrison Ford, similar to Marion in Raiders.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Jul 6, 2023 21:56:54 GMT -5
No one will disagree that Short Round is the best sidekick. And I look forward to Doomsday 's Short Round TV series on Disney Plus. But Sean Connery wasn't necessarily there to be the "sidekick." He was there to play off Harrison Ford, similar to Marion in Raiders. I vote Kathleen Kennedy out and Doomsday in if he promises the first order of business is a Short Round show.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jul 6, 2023 22:09:22 GMT -5
No one will disagree that Short Round is the best sidekick. And I look forward to Doomsday 's Short Round TV series on Disney Plus. But Sean Connery wasn't necessarily there to be the "sidekick." He was there to play off Harrison Ford, similar to Marion in Raiders. I vote Kathleen Kennedy out and Doomsday in if he promises the first order of business is a Short Round show. Co-Signed. Short Round and Mutt go on post-Vietnam/pre-Reagan globetrotting adventures? I can't wait for the scene in which they chase the villains on foot cause they ran out of gas.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Jul 6, 2023 22:59:06 GMT -5
Co-Signed. Short Round and Mutt go on post-Vietnam/pre-Reagan globetrotting adventures? I can't wait for the scene in which they chase the villains on foot cause they ran out of gas. Let's get a series bible going to have on Doomsday 's desk by Monday.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jul 7, 2023 0:44:37 GMT -5
Co-Signed. Short Round and Mutt go on post-Vietnam/pre-Reagan globetrotting adventures? I can't wait for the scene in which they chase the villains on foot cause they ran out of gas. Let's get a series bible going to have on Doomsday 's desk by Monday. Somehow, the biker gang from the Boba Fett will show up. The Lucasfilm multiverse. In the finale, they’ll team up with Howard the Duck.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Jul 7, 2023 3:21:51 GMT -5
Somehow, the biker gang from the Boba Fett will show up. The Lucasfilm multiverse. In the finale, they’ll team up with Howard the Duck. The only reason that shitty teenage biker gang will be in the Short Round show is if he gets to kill them all. They're not good enough for Howard the Duck. That's how terrible they were.
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Jul 8, 2023 11:45:11 GMT -5
I don't see why we can't do a Short Round show AND a Boba Fett biker gang show. That's just what the fans want, kids on Skittles bikes riding around at 15 mph, tinkering on their droid parts, complaining about water. Gotta strike while the iron's hot.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Jul 8, 2023 13:17:08 GMT -5
I don't see why we can't do a Short Round show AND a Boba Fett biker gang show. That's just what the fans want, kids on Skittles bikes riding around at 15 mph, tinkering on their droid parts, complaining about water. Gotta strike while the iron's hot. This is the innovative thinking that made us back you for Lucasfilm president.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Jul 9, 2023 8:12:13 GMT -5
Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny(7/8/2023)I distinctly remember when I heard that they were making a fifth Indiana Jones movie starring Harrison Ford but directed by James Mangold instead of Steven Spielberg and my initial response was a resounding “no thank you.” Honestly I suspect that would have still been my response even if Spielberg was coming back or under pretty much any other circumstance for that matter. Most of that was simply a matter of the bad taste that 2008’s Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull left in my mouth, which in my eyes was pretty much a disaster. People remember that movie for a couple of miscalculations like the refrigerator scene but really the problems with that movie aren’t a couple of bad elements so much as just how aggressively forgettable and anticlimactic the whole thing was and how much if feels like a complete outlier from the original trilogy. For my money it’s a worse movie than all three of the Star Wars prequels. Say what you will about that trilogy but at least people remember it and care about it enough to argue about its shortcomings, by contrast Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was something I just want to forget exists and I don’t think I’m alone in that. That mostly seemed to suggest to me that this was a franchise they should have just left alone and the last thing I needed were the Disney Lucasfilm team messing with the franchise further... but I must say I had kind of assumed I’d be in the minority in that opinion. As sick as I might be of nostalgia pandering, the rest of the movie going public seemed happy to lap up IP recycling stuff like Star Wars: The Force Awakens and Top Gun Maverick, so I assumed people would be hungry for more Indy, but it seems like they weren’t. Or maybe they just weren’t hungry for this one. So what went wrong?
Well, let’s start with what this adventure even is. As the film opens we get an extended flashback to 1945 and see Indiana Jones (Harrison Ford, who’s digitally de-aged in this sequence) going on one of his final World War II era adventures. In it you see him and a colleague named Basil Shaw (Toby Jones) trying to steal back a stolen artifact from the Nazis. In the process they find another artifact they weren’t expecting, half of a mechanical dial invented by the Ancient Greek mathematician Archimedes. A Nazi scientist on the scene named Jürgen Voller (Mads Mikkelsen) also recognizes the power of this item but he’s defeated and Jones and Shaw are able to get away with it. Cut to twenty five years later. It’s 1969 and astronauts have just landed on the moon, but Jones is at a low point. Marion has left him, his students are disinterested in his archeology lectures, and he lacks purpose. Suddenly a woman named Helena (Phoebe Waller-Bridge) approaches him and announces that she is Basil Shaw’s daughter. She is looking for the dial and Jones shows her that he does still have it, but this is interrupted by a trio of murderous agents trying to intercept the artifact who appear to be connected to a figure who may well be Voller, out for revenge.
Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny is kind of an interesting beast in that it doesn’t have any big glaring problems that jump out at you immediately. James Mangold seems to basically understand the series and what people theoretically want to see out of it and mostly avoids doing anything monumentally silly like that refrigerator scene. Phedon Papamichael photographs the film quite nicely, and Harrison Ford certainly seems to be putting some real effort into this part and does more to sell the idea of an octogenarian action hero than I expected. So at first glance this seems like the kind of movie whose biggest sin would just be that it plays things too safely, and to some extent that’s true. However, as the film plays out it starts to become apparent that this movie’s screenplay (which was written by four different people) has some pretty glaring issues and kind of lacks thematic focus. The Phoebe Waller-Bridge character, for instance, is kind of a mess. She starts out with one set of motivations then just kind of transforms into a different character somewhere between the second and third acts without a clear transition point. Waller-Bridge, who kind of just transfers her “Fleabag” persona into the character, is a strong enough performer that you kind of go with it but afterwards you kind of feel like they cheated. Similarly the movie is never quite sure what they want Jones’ overall arc to be and the film sort of ends by resolving character traits in him that haven’t been fully developed (the film’s epilog is particularly weak) and by the end we don’t really get any more closure for the character than we did in the last movie.
I also don’t think the movie’s villains are very creative or compelling and there are a lot of other nitpicky little plot hole type things in the script I could go into, none of which would be dealbreakers on their own, but they do add up. All of that would probably be forgiven though if this had some top of the line action scenes, and it kind of doesn’t. I wouldn’t say the set pieces here are terrible or even bad for that matter but they’re not up to the standard of this franchise and they’re not strong enough to carry the movie. In retrospect that original trilogy was made at just the right time: they were top of the line productions but were also made right before that level of production value would involve CGI so they maintained an analog quality that matches their 30s throwback vibe. Of course it’s theoretically possible to make a movie today with practical effects and stuntwork but that’s increasingly difficult when your star is an 80 year old man who’s likely to break a hip if he authentically does much of this stuff and that might be part of the problem here. James Mangold is probably also one of the problems. Mangold professional journeyman who knows the filmmaking fundamentals and can put in good work at times, and he does deserve some credit for keeping this movie as relatively grounded as he does compared to something like Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull but he’s not really an “action director” and he’s not a visionary like Spielberg.
I’ve long said that Raiders of the Lost Ark kind of unique among pantheon level movies in that, at the end of the day it’s pretty shallow, but it makes up for it by just being filled to the brim with good scenes. It’s a movie that doesn’t add up to more than the sum of its parts, but that’s okay because the sum of its parts is through the roof. The same equations happens with all of the Indiana Jones movies to some extent: Temple of Doom has some really low points that are offset by really high points, The Last Crusade is pretty constantly at an 8/10, and Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is a lot of low points with little in the way of highpoints to make up for them. This one is a little different in that no one scene really feels all that bad in isolation and its moments of real cringe incompetence are relatively rare but it doesn’t really transcend its own shallowness in the way some of the other ones did. I think that’s partly because it’s kind of being pulled in different directions by different writers and can never really settle on any one vision for what this story is supposed to mean for Indiana Jones and it ends up meaning nothing and the action scenes aren’t good enough to make you ignore that. Having said all that, I suspect that this movie is going to be hated on out of proportion now that the stink of failure has been applied to it and I don’t think that’s really fair either. Hollywood can do a lot worse than this and I think the movie would feel a lot less objectionable if it wasn’t being held up to the high standards of its franchise. I wouldn’t say I had a bad time while watching it necessarily and I would marginally recommend it as there’s some fun to be had with it, but it’s not the conclusive final ride we were hoping for. *** out of Five
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Jul 9, 2023 8:24:29 GMT -5
Getting into spoilers I actually liked the time travel stuff fine in concept. All of these movies get a little supernatural in their final acts and that seems fine. They found a grounded way to do it and they cleverly avoid time paradox silliness by taking on "you can't change history because whatever you did in the past has already affected history" rules. In the real world Archimedes actually did die in that battle, so the movie seems to be a big exercise in the characters already living in an alternate history that they themselves would go on to create. That's kind of interesting. However, the scene still doesn't really work as a climax to this movie.
Once they show up in ancient Greece the movie seems kind of disinterested in turning this into a true action finale and instead just sort of offhandedly disposes of the bad guys. From there it's just a question of if Indy stays in the past or escapes and... I was kind of rooting for him to stay and become the body in that tomb wearing a watch. It would have given some real closure to the character and put the story to rest. Instead we have the now benevolent Helena insist he leaves for... reasons. She says it's because there are people back home who need him but... are there? Aside from Disney shareholders that is? It just felt like a very cowardly ending and that epilogue is the worst part of the movie. No one is the slightest bit invested in Indy's marriage to Marrion (something that happens in KOTCS) and they seem to vastly overestimate how excited people were going to be by the very sight of Karen Allen. The "this doesn't hurt" bit is the kind of cringe pandering that the movie heretofore not been too bad about and I have no idea why anyone thought it was a good idea to have the final shot of the series be a hat falling from a clothespin. That shit must have been a reshoot.
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IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Jul 9, 2023 9:21:41 GMT -5
I liked it.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jul 9, 2023 15:00:25 GMT -5
The math teacher likes the movie with math.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Jul 12, 2023 19:53:30 GMT -5
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jul 12, 2023 21:41:06 GMT -5
The two teachers liked it.
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IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Jul 13, 2023 7:58:49 GMT -5
Part time
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Jul 22, 2023 11:11:11 GMT -5
I can't say I was particularly interested in a Spielberg-less Indiana Jones movie made in 2023. The appeal of the series can largely be boiled down to two factors. The first is the character himself is a pretty awesome power fantasy, but one that's largely lost when the character is in his eighties, and in the magic of Spielberg's talents for set-pieces and visual storytelling, which is obviously lacking when the man isn't there. That's no disrespect to James Mangold, who is also a very good director, but he isn't Spielberg. More than just those cinematic abilities though, one of the few things that might have made a fifth Indiana Jones interesting is simply the question of if the elderly Spielberg could still make a bare-knuckled badass action movie. Good or bad, the auteurist perspective would have at least given me a lot to think about. Instead, we have our first Indy film from a new director, and the first (and likely only, given the box-office) Indiana Jones movie from Disney. How did it turn out?
Fine I guess. This is a tricky film to review given I mostly had fun with it and probably like it more than most people, but I also think it's kind of mediocre and falls well short of the original trilogy. It's not even that there's really anything glaringly wrong with Dial of Destiny so much that I can only get so excited about the things that work. The action scenes, for example, are reasonably entertaining (I especially like the car chase in Tangier) but they're never that exciting or inventive. They get the job done well enough but it's a shame that a franchise that used to be the name in action-adventure filmmaking is now only on-par. The new cast members do a good job, especially Phoebe Waller-Bridge who is utterly charming and confident on-screen, but the screenplay takes short cuts with her character that aren't justified by the material, starting one way before inexplicably changing when the story needs her to. The film does a more thoughtful job of introducing an aging Indy than Crystal Skull ever did and is probably the film that treats him most as a character and not a concept, but then doesn't really know how to satisfy that arc. The end scene is not the worst idea in theory but it isn't earned in context. The film takes a big wacky risk in its climax that I personally liked a lot, but then just kind of fizzles out.
Hence, my dilemma. In the context of Indiana Jones, this is a modest disappointment. As an afternoon outing to the movie theater, however, I did enjoy myself well enough.
B-
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Nov 30, 2023 16:29:49 GMT -5
On Disney+ tomorrow for the 3 of you who have it.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Nov 30, 2023 16:55:07 GMT -5
On Disney+ tomorrow for the 3 of you who have it. You don’t own it in 4K. Part of your collection alongside Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.
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Post by Doomsday on Nov 30, 2023 17:16:54 GMT -5
If they come out with a good Indy box set I'll pick it up, I think the last physical release I have of the series is a DVD set from like 2009.
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Post by frankyt on Nov 30, 2023 18:59:16 GMT -5
Yea id say it was fine. Wanted a better finale for the bad guys, just crashing the plane is kinda... Anticlimactic. But otherwise I was pretty into it.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Apr 2, 2024 12:41:24 GMT -5
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Apr 2, 2024 13:11:56 GMT -5
That $130 million actually seems low.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Apr 3, 2024 16:13:33 GMT -5
2023 was a rough year for Disney.
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