Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Oct 8, 2021 20:42:12 GMT -5
The Chimera virus didn't target individuals or families or ethnic groups, it was mostly just notable for having a dormant period before it went into effect. This particular virus sounded more like a mix of FoxDie from Metal Gear Solid and the titular virus from the PS1 game Syphon Filter... Bro. It’s a movie about two dudes fighting over pussy. And there’s a virus. It’s the same movie. I will give you this... Skyfall certainly ripped off the NOC list from Mission Impossible 1
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FShuttari
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Post by FShuttari on Oct 9, 2021 4:02:26 GMT -5
Casino Royale is the best Daniel Craig movie. I’ll die on that hill. But wow — this was certainly something. Daniel Craig’s tenure as Bond was certainly interesting to say the least. They took Bond on some interesting backroads. It also ultimately strayed wildly from its Jason Bourne / Jack Bauer influences. As much as I would love to welcome a return to the episodic adventures of 007, I don’t know how the fuck you make a follow up to this movie. If this were the last James Bond I think I’d be okay with that. In spite of all its faults, this incarnation of the character ended in a poignant way unlike Chris Nolan’s Batman trilogy. Sean Connery and Pierce Brosnan are my Bond’s but I tip my hat to Daniel Craig. Job well done. You pretty much nailed this Review. I would only disagree on on the point that Sean or Pierce are better Bonds. I would say no, Craig is my favorite bond. I also don't know where this franchise goes... I think most people would be scared to take on the James Bond role. He is beloved and his Bond is the only one to get a finale arc.
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IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Oct 10, 2021 0:44:20 GMT -5
After the podcast and this movie, I'm bumping three movies to the top of the re-watch list: 1) On Her Majesty's Secret Service, not because I dislike it because I certainly enjoy it, I just owe it a rewatch 2) Moonraker, just because 3) The World Is Not Enough, to hopefully gain a new perspective Guys. Guys. Just watch Mission: Impossible II. It’s the same movie except Tom Cruise…… climbs a mountain. Tell me when he gets to space.
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IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Oct 10, 2021 0:45:14 GMT -5
Just got back from the theater.
My initial reaction: the popcorn was good.
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Oct 10, 2021 15:46:57 GMT -5
Just got back from it about half an hour ago.
Still processing. But if the question is whether my thumb is up or down on it...up. Most assuredly up.
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Post by Jibbs on Oct 10, 2021 20:31:12 GMT -5
Well. Those things happened.
Kinda wished it cut to black and then, with larger letters than usual, said "JAMES BOND WILL NOT RETURN."
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donny
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Post by donny on Oct 10, 2021 21:41:52 GMT -5
Just got back.
Yikes.
Fuck that.
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Post by IanTheCool on Oct 10, 2021 23:03:38 GMT -5
I have no idea how to rate this right now
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Oct 10, 2021 23:18:21 GMT -5
I have no idea how to rate this right now Two stars.
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Oct 10, 2021 23:20:41 GMT -5
I'm definitely leaning more toward the positive. I know -- big surprise coming from me, right?
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Oct 11, 2021 2:02:30 GMT -5
I'm definitely leaning more toward the positive. I know -- big surprise coming from me, right? This is your Bond, sir.
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Oct 11, 2021 10:03:45 GMT -5
I'm definitely leaning more toward the positive. I know -- big surprise coming from me, right? This is your Bond, sir. You say that like it's a bad thing.
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donny
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Post by donny on Oct 11, 2021 10:09:05 GMT -5
Well. Those things happened. Kinda wished it cut to black and then, with larger letters than usual, said "JAMES BOND WILL NOT RETURN." Tbh, should have been first scene.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Oct 11, 2021 12:48:52 GMT -5
You say that like it's a bad thing. He's technically mine too even if I sort of disowned him. There's a decent chance Casino Royale was the first Bond movie I ever saw in theaters. Certainly the first I remember seeing in theaters, although by then I had been watching the old movies for quite some time so it wasn't really my introduction to the character. Brosnan also has the distinction of being the Bond for a generation of gamers, whether it be GoldenEye on the N64 or Nightfire on the Playstation 2 (which was my favourite as a kid). Anyway, yeah, I'd have been shocked Phantom if you didn't like this. What truly shocks me though is Dracula giving the film a begrudging pass, even if the emphasis is on begrudging.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Oct 11, 2021 13:00:06 GMT -5
You say that like it's a bad thing. He's technically mine too even if I sort of disowned him. There's a decent chance Casino Royale was the first Bond movie I ever saw in theaters. Certainly the first I remember seeing in theaters, although by then I had been watching the old movies for quite some time so it wasn't really my introduction to the character. Brosnan also has the distinction of being the Bond for a generation of gamers, whether it be GoldenEye on the N64 or Nightfire on the Playstation 2 (which was my favourite as a kid). Anyway, yeah, I'd have been shocked Phantom if you didn't like this. What truly shocks me though is Dracula giving the film a begrudging pass, even if the emphasis is on begrudging. Well, I'm a little surprised that you consistently give Casino Royale a pass, from my perspective that movie is the one that committed the original sin from which all the rest of this bullshit derives. That reboot of the series is what set up this weird hermetically sealed subset of the franchise and on some level I'm happy that this ending, heretical as it may be, may in some way contain the virus and prevent its further spread. Also that bit where Bond flips that car and then crushes that one guy with it is pretty cool.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Oct 11, 2021 13:09:26 GMT -5
He's technically mine too even if I sort of disowned him. There's a decent chance Casino Royale was the first Bond movie I ever saw in theaters. Certainly the first I remember seeing in theaters, although by then I had been watching the old movies for quite some time so it wasn't really my introduction to the character. Brosnan also has the distinction of being the Bond for a generation of gamers, whether it be GoldenEye on the N64 or Nightfire on the Playstation 2 (which was my favourite as a kid). Anyway, yeah, I'd have been shocked Phantom if you didn't like this. What truly shocks me though is Dracula giving the film a begrudging pass, even if the emphasis is on begrudging. Well, I'm a little surprised that you consistently give Casino Royale a pass, from my perspective that movie is the one that committed the original sin from which all the rest of this bullshit derives. That reboot of the series is what set up this weird hermetically sealed subset of the franchise and on some level I'm happy that this ending, heretical as it may be, may in some way contain the virus and prevent its further spread. Also that bit where Bond flips that car and then crushes that one guy with it is pretty cool. Casino Royale may have committed the original sin but it was not, to my eyes, the most egregious offender. That said, I see your point. It does sort of feel appropriate that the Craig era would end this way but...still. Heresy aside though, I also find the ending just doesn't work on its own terms, to the point that it makes more foundational issues in No Time to Die hard to really ignore.
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Oct 11, 2021 13:10:25 GMT -5
You say that like it's a bad thing. He's technically mine too even if I sort of disowned him. There's a decent chance Casino Royale was the first Bond movie I ever saw in theaters. Certainly the first I remember seeing in theaters, although by then I had been watching the old movies for quite some time so it wasn't really my introduction to the character. Brosnan also has the distinction of being the Bond for a generation of gamers, whether it be GoldenEye on the N64 or Nightfire on the Playstation 2 (which was my favourite as a kid). Anyway, yeah, I'd have been shocked Phantom if you didn't like this. What truly shocks me though is Dracula giving the film a begrudging pass, even if the emphasis is on begrudging. Leading up to me seeing No Time To Die, I re-watched the other 4 Craig films in prep (ooof, Quantum of Solace). I would definitely say that this "era" of Bond has been the one I've cared about the most. Casino Royale was the first Bond movie I ever saw in theaters (and what a one to debut with in that respect), and this past week, I've come to accept that Daniel Craig is in fact my favorite Bond, period. Partly because I've loved what he and his movies brought to the character, that nostalgia-ish factor of Casino Royale being my first big screen experience with the character and that -- apart from Quantum -- I've quite enjoyed his run of films and their approach/take on the formula. So, yeah, No Time To Die was quite the ride for me. But I'm still trying to work out my feelings on the ending.
As of right now, I'd say No Time To Die is sitting quite comfortably as my third-favorite of the Craig outings, but I still quite liked it. In terms of it combining some of the more traditional sort of Bond trademarks with the hallmarks of the Craig Era, I thought No Time To Die did it a bit more cleanly and less awkward than Spectre. At least, for my money.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Oct 11, 2021 13:19:45 GMT -5
He's technically mine too even if I sort of disowned him. There's a decent chance Casino Royale was the first Bond movie I ever saw in theaters. Certainly the first I remember seeing in theaters, although by then I had been watching the old movies for quite some time so it wasn't really my introduction to the character. Brosnan also has the distinction of being the Bond for a generation of gamers, whether it be GoldenEye on the N64 or Nightfire on the Playstation 2 (which was my favourite as a kid). Anyway, yeah, I'd have been shocked Phantom if you didn't like this. What truly shocks me though is Dracula giving the film a begrudging pass, even if the emphasis is on begrudging. Leading up to me seeing No Time To Die, I re-watched the other 4 Craig films in prep (ooof, Quantum of Solace). I would definitely say that this "era" of Bond has been the one I've cared about the most. Casino Royale was the first Bond movie I ever saw in theaters (and what a one to debut with in that respect), and this past week, I've come to accept that Daniel Craig is in fact my favorite Bond, period. Partly because I've loved what he and his movies brought to the character, that nostalgia-ish factor of Casino Royale being my first big screen experience with the character and that -- apart from Quantum -- I've quite enjoyed his run of films and their approach/take on the formula. So, yeah, No Time To Die was quite the ride for me. But I'm still trying to work out my feelings on the ending. As of right now, I'd say No Time To Die is sitting quite comfortably as my third-favorite of the Craig outings, but I still quite liked it. In terms of it combining some of the more traditional sort of Bond trademarks with the hallmarks of the Craig Era, I thought No Time To Die did it a bit more cleanly and less awkward than Spectre. At least, for my money.
If the movie hadn't ended with Bond dying there's a decent chance this would be my second or third favourite of the Craig era. Especially because there is a window for a far more appropriate ending in my opinion, if James had survived but still been exposed to the virus, meaning he could never see Madeleine or his daughter again. So, he returns to MI6. He can't see his loved ones because it would kill them (a nice metaphor for how Bond always brings death to the women in his life) and soldiers on as 007. This would also give greater weight to Nomi returning that number to Bond, this notion that this is who he is inevitably meant to be. It's brooding and tragic, which is appropriate for Craig, and also fits in nicely as reflection on the series as being everlasting. This wouldn't exactly fix the movie. The villain still sucks and James/Madeleine is still a wholly uninteresting romance, but it does feel more appropriate to me and it wouldn't lean so hard on the elements I don't like.
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Oct 11, 2021 13:44:59 GMT -5
Leading up to me seeing No Time To Die, I re-watched the other 4 Craig films in prep (ooof, Quantum of Solace). I would definitely say that this "era" of Bond has been the one I've cared about the most. Casino Royale was the first Bond movie I ever saw in theaters (and what a one to debut with in that respect), and this past week, I've come to accept that Daniel Craig is in fact my favorite Bond, period. Partly because I've loved what he and his movies brought to the character, that nostalgia-ish factor of Casino Royale being my first big screen experience with the character and that -- apart from Quantum -- I've quite enjoyed his run of films and their approach/take on the formula. So, yeah, No Time To Die was quite the ride for me. But I'm still trying to work out my feelings on the ending. As of right now, I'd say No Time To Die is sitting quite comfortably as my third-favorite of the Craig outings, but I still quite liked it. In terms of it combining some of the more traditional sort of Bond trademarks with the hallmarks of the Craig Era, I thought No Time To Die did it a bit more cleanly and less awkward than Spectre. At least, for my money.
If the movie hadn't ended with Bond dying there's a decent chance this would be my second or third favourite of the Craig era. Especially because there is a window for a far more appropriate ending in my opinion, if James had survived but still been exposed to the virus, meaning he could never see Madeleine or his daughter again. So, he returns to MI6. He can't see his loved ones because it would kill them (a nice metaphor for how Bond always brings death to the women in his life) and soldiers on as 007. This would also give greater weight to Nomi returning that number to Bond, this notion that this is who he is inevitably meant to be. It's brooding and tragic, which is appropriate for Craig, and also fits in nicely as reflection on the series as being everlasting. This wouldn't exactly fix the movie. The villain still sucks and James/Madeleine is still a wholly uninteresting romance, but it does feel more appropriate to me and it wouldn't lean so hard on the elements I don't like. I'm pretty much of the same mindset, re: Bond getting infected. In fact, that was one of the first things discussed between my friend and I on the car ride back.
Where I currently stand on the ending, basically, is: sacrelegious as it may sound, I have no problem with literally killing Bond. At least, in this universe/continuity. However...you also have to earn something like that, and I don't really think this movie did. I think this mostly stems from the fact that I never bought into the James/Madeline romance, especially fresh off a Spectre re-watch. The relationship just happens way too fast in that movie and we're supposed to believe they share a deep connection because Madeline's father was an assassin, so she "understands" James the most? Suuuuuure. Now, if this had somehow been Vesper again, maybe this'd be easier to swallow. Bringing it back to Spectre, it opens with a title card that reads "The Dead Are Alive," and I couldn't help but think this time how much more impact a romance in Spectre might've had if that had been referring to a resurrected Vesper, convoluted as it may have been. Like, Spectre got hold of her body, revived her and kept her prisoner for a long-term game plan to use against James. I'm not so sure that would've ultimately worked, but I just think if it had somehow been Vesper in Madeline's role here in this movie, maybe it would've had more weight.
On the other hand...emotionally/acting-wise, it was a well-done scene, and y'all know how much I put into that aspect most of the time and despite my logic problems, I can't deny I got caught up in the moment. That, and I really liked the last line of the movie. So, yeah...I'm conflicted on the ending to say the least. But that's not enough to detract from the movie TOO much for me. Safin was written thin/poorly as a character, but I actually didn't mind Malek's performance so much. But the rest of the movie landed pretty effectively for me.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Oct 11, 2021 13:55:00 GMT -5
If the movie hadn't ended with Bond dying there's a decent chance this would be my second or third favourite of the Craig era. Especially because there is a window for a far more appropriate ending in my opinion, if James had survived but still been exposed to the virus, meaning he could never see Madeleine or his daughter again. So, he returns to MI6. He can't see his loved ones because it would kill them (a nice metaphor for how Bond always brings death to the women in his life) and soldiers on as 007. This would also give greater weight to Nomi returning that number to Bond, this notion that this is who he is inevitably meant to be. It's brooding and tragic, which is appropriate for Craig, and also fits in nicely as reflection on the series as being everlasting. This wouldn't exactly fix the movie. The villain still sucks and James/Madeleine is still a wholly uninteresting romance, but it does feel more appropriate to me and it wouldn't lean so hard on the elements I don't like. I'm pretty much of the same mindset, re: Bond getting infected. In fact, that was one of the first things discussed between my friend and I on the car ride back.
Where I currently stand on the ending, basically, is: sacrelegious as it may sound, I have no problem with literally killing Bond. At least, in this universe/continuity. However...you also have to earn something like that, and I don't really think this movie did. I think this mostly stems from the fact that I never bought into the James/Madeline romance, especially fresh off a Spectre re-watch. The relationship just happens way too fast in that movie and we're supposed to believe they share a deep connection because Madeline's father was an assassin, so she "understands" James the most? Suuuuuure. Now, if this had somehow been Vesper again, maybe this'd be easier to swallow. Bringing it back to Spectre, it opens with a title card that reads "The Dead Are Alive," and I couldn't help but think this time how much more impact a romance in Spectre might've had if that had been referring to a resurrected Vesper, convoluted as it may have been. Like, Spectre got hold of her body, revived her and kept her prisoner for a long-term game plan to use against James. I'm not so sure that would've ultimately worked, but I just think if it had somehow been Vesper in Madeline's role here in this movie, maybe it would've had more weight.
On the other hand...emotionally/acting-wise, it was a well-done scene, and y'all know how much I put into that aspect most of the time and despite my logic problems, I can't deny I got caught up in the moment. That, and I really liked the last line of the movie. So, yeah...I'm conflicted on the ending to say the least. But that's not enough to detract from the movie TOO much for me. Safin was written thin/poorly as a character, but I actually didn't mind Malek's performance so much. But the rest of the movie landed pretty effectively for me. I'm definitely closer to just being anti-killing Bond on principle, but ultimately I agree, it could potentially work, but it's an ending that really needs to be earned. And this movie does not do that. Also, another issue with the Madeleine romance that's been bugging me, James abandons her in the coldest possible way in the opening and completely cuts her off for five years and it turns out she has his kid. And when they finally come back together, she barely seems mad at him. We can talk about the problematic writing of women in these movies, but I'd argue that's a very egregious sign of a weak and submissive character. Just because she isn't as aggressively sexualized and knows how to use a gun does not a progressive character make.
I don't see Tracy or Vesper putting up with that shit.
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Oct 11, 2021 14:03:36 GMT -5
I'm pretty much of the same mindset, re: Bond getting infected. In fact, that was one of the first things discussed between my friend and I on the car ride back.
Where I currently stand on the ending, basically, is: sacrelegious as it may sound, I have no problem with literally killing Bond. At least, in this universe/continuity. However...you also have to earn something like that, and I don't really think this movie did. I think this mostly stems from the fact that I never bought into the James/Madeline romance, especially fresh off a Spectre re-watch. The relationship just happens way too fast in that movie and we're supposed to believe they share a deep connection because Madeline's father was an assassin, so she "understands" James the most? Suuuuuure. Now, if this had somehow been Vesper again, maybe this'd be easier to swallow. Bringing it back to Spectre, it opens with a title card that reads "The Dead Are Alive," and I couldn't help but think this time how much more impact a romance in Spectre might've had if that had been referring to a resurrected Vesper, convoluted as it may have been. Like, Spectre got hold of her body, revived her and kept her prisoner for a long-term game plan to use against James. I'm not so sure that would've ultimately worked, but I just think if it had somehow been Vesper in Madeline's role here in this movie, maybe it would've had more weight.
On the other hand...emotionally/acting-wise, it was a well-done scene, and y'all know how much I put into that aspect most of the time and despite my logic problems, I can't deny I got caught up in the moment. That, and I really liked the last line of the movie. So, yeah...I'm conflicted on the ending to say the least. But that's not enough to detract from the movie TOO much for me. Safin was written thin/poorly as a character, but I actually didn't mind Malek's performance so much. But the rest of the movie landed pretty effectively for me. I'm definitely closer to just being anti-killing Bond on principle, but ultimately I agree, it could potentially work, but it's an ending that really needs to be earned. And this movie does not do that. Also, another issue with the Madeleine romance that's been bugging me, James abandons her in the coldest possible way in the opening and completely cuts her off for five years and it turns out she has his kid. And when they finally come back together, she barely seems mad at him. We can talk about the problematic writing of women in these movies, but I'd argue that's a very egregious sign of a weak and submissive character. Just because she isn't as aggressively sexualized and knows how to use a gun does not a progressive character make.
I don't see Tracy or Vesper putting up with that shit. Conclusion: Madeline kinda sucks as a character.
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Post by PG Cooper on Oct 11, 2021 15:31:23 GMT -5
Tried to write a review: Audiences just looking for a well-made action movie will likely leave No Time to Die satisfied. This is a handsomely made movie which looks great, delivers high-quality set-pieces, and is generally very well-paced despite an eyebrow raising length for a Bond picture. Fans, however, will likely be divided and I fell on the wrong side of that line. No Time to Die will forever be remembered as the one where James Bond dies at the end, sacrificing himself to definitively thwart the villain's scheme. The death of James Bond is inherently something my 007 loving ass did not want to see but setting aside the unhinged fanboy part of myself, I still don't think this ending works. More specifically, this ending is so reliant on the film's weakest elements to the point that it makes those shortcomings impossible to ignore. First off, this ending really needs you to buy into the romance between James and Madeleine and I emphatically don't. The actors don't have nearly the chemistry that Daniel Craig and Eva Green did and I never feel this passionate love the movie really wants you to feel. Madeleine is also just kind of a boring character, mostly lacking in personality or individuality. I find it very telling that James abandons her with child for five years and she barely seems mad at him for it. I don't see Tracy or Vesper putting up with that shit. The other issue is the film's villain, who full-on sucks. He's basically meant to be a Stromberg/Drax type who yearns to create a new utopia through mass destruction, but his actual motives and goals beyond revenge on Blofeld are very unclear. It doesn't help that Rami Malek's performance is boring as hell. Maybe this is still a fanboy criticism but I feel like the villain who succeeded in killing James Bond should have been a bit more worthy of that honour.
The weak romance and villain are problems throughout the film that I was mostly able to ignore in the moment, but the ending demands they get substantial attention. Moreover, much as killing Bond feels like a bold and ambitious storytelling choice, it's also ultimately a lie. The credits themselves admit that "James Bond Will Return" after all, likely within a couple of years. This is not an ending to the character so much as it is a goodbye to Daniel Craig, one that's so overwrought and melodramatic that it took me out of the story entirely. I don't feel like I'm watching the conclusion to a character, I feel like I'm watching a masturbatory love-letter to a specific actor. Previous Bond films never put much thought into giving a send-off to the James in question, but there's something admirable about how each and every Bond prior gracefully bowed out and made space for the new guy to inherent the mantle of the series. No Time to Die does the exact opposite. This ending being such a hard closing of the door further stacks the deck against the new guy when he inevitably comes around. Again, I could probably accept this if the actual story to deliver this ending was really moving or thoughtful or well-executed, but it just isn't here.
Is it fair for me to be so negative to a movie I mostly enjoyed in the moment strictly because I hated the ending? I don't know, maybe not, but the issue is less that "the ending is just so bad" and more the entire movie seems to exist to bring us to this concluding point. So for it to fail, the whole fails. That all said, time might be kinder to this movie than I'm being now. The last time I had a fanyboy-infused pathological rejection of a movie was The Dark Knight Rises (a clear influence of No Time to Die) and I've come to really love that movie in spite of its messiness, so who knows. There's certainly a lot to like here. In addition to the kind things I said in my opening paragraph, I also quite liked the opening title sequence, Lashana Lynch is a very strong screen presence, and Ana de Armas's brief appearance is as delightful and fun as you've heard. But on the other hand, there are other issues I haven't really discussed, like how giving Bond a cute daughter feels a transparently desperate effort for unearned emotional weight or how a subplot about M's complicity in the villain's plan amounts to nothing. Then there's the fact that Naomie Harris is mostly wasted here, though that's probably inevitable when casting an actor of her caliber as Moneypenny and then just keeping her a secretary. Overall, I don't think I'm really done reckoning with this film. It's a movie with a lot of elements I do like yet one where my dominant emotional reaction is clearly negative. Of course, being a Bond movie I will no doubt by rewatching No Time to Die so it might grow on me, especially once we get a sense of where the next direction of Bond goes. But for now, I can say this: while I greatly admire Daniel Craig as an actor and think his performance as James Bond has generally been very compelling, I'm glad it's over. Maybe the next 007 will remember that these movies used to be fun. D+
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donny
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Post by donny on Oct 11, 2021 16:35:40 GMT -5
I guess I'm ultimately okay with NTTD killing Bond , but the execution was piss poor. As mentioned, it didn't feel earned, and his relationship with Madeline was bland from the beginning. I guess we're really supposed to feel it since it's been two movies of this, but none of what happened in Spectre left enough of an impact for me to care this time around. I wish the whole thing were done a little more tasteful, but it just was awful. I sincerely hope that the franchise will sort of pick up and transition to a new Bond, but now that they did what they did, I'm wondering if it only gets more extreme from here. Are we now going to have a more team approach, ala Mission Impossible? Are we going to have 007 movies where it doesn't matter who plays Bond? Are they going to focus more on the code name element now and pass around "007" from person to person?
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Oct 11, 2021 16:43:39 GMT -5
This randomly showed up in my recommended youtube. It's so stupid haha.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Oct 11, 2021 17:36:07 GMT -5
Hyperbolic. Are we now going to have a more team approach, ala Mission Impossible? Are we going to have 007 movies where it doesn't matter who plays Bond? Bro. Just give me a spin-off with Ana De Armas and call it a day.
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