PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on May 29, 2020 20:02:14 GMT -5
For thebtskinkBall of FireThough not quite as famous a screwball comedy as Howard Hawks's earlier Bringing Up Baby, Ball of Fire has certainly developed a legacy of its own. It's probably been too long since I've seen Bringing Up Baby to directly compare the two, but I will say that I found Ball of Fire to be absolutely delightful. The premise here is that a group of professors have been sequestered away working on an encyclopedia for years when their grammarian (Gary Cooper) realizes his entry on slang is hopelessly out of date. He ventures out into the real world and finds Sugarpuss O'Shea (Barbara Stanwyck), a nightclub performer with her own story and a wicked vocabulary. She agrees to assist the professors for her own ends and screwball shenanigans ensue. The core of the film is the relationship between Cooper and Stanwyck and both are excellent. Cooper is perfectly cast as the straight-laced academic and the film gets a lot of comic mileage out of his no-nonsense persona slowly unraveling. Stanwyck is also great as the more worldly heroine, equally captivating for both the characters and the audience. Stanwyck is able to get a lot of laughs through sheer strength as a performer while also balancing the dramatic aspects of the character seamlessly. Much as Cooper and Stanwyck are the heart of the movie, the showstealers might be the older professors, who have an almost child-like giddiness that is just endlessly amusing. The whole movie is quite affable and entertaining, but it really comes alive in act three. The jokes are funnier, the story pushes the screwball elements while still holding together, and there's even some almost Hitchcockian suspense that melds comedy and tension beautifully. Really fun movie. A-For Ron Howard WillowI can see why Neverending was hesitant to recommend Willow. It's boring! I've always been aware of Willow as one of those 80s fantasy movies trying to touch a similar nerve as Star Wars (this one all the more interesting given George Lucas's involvement as a producer and his "story by" credit) and like a lot of those movies, Willow fails to grasp the simplicity that makes Star Wars's world so accessible. The film is overstuffed with characters and prophecies and vaguely generic fantasy tropes that nothing stands out. The catalyst for the story is the Evil Queen Bavmorda murdering the first born's because of a prophecy because of a prophecy that such a child will undue her rule. One such child is smuggled out with the wet nurse while the mother is executed, but then the wet nurse is find and she gets executed too, at which point the baby goes down river and eventually makes it to a dwarven village where she is taken in by a farmer and would-be sorcerer named Willow (Warwick Davis). Finally the story kicks off proper with Willow venturing out to the human world (or the world of the Daikini because 'human' would be too straightforward) to return the child...except at this point the character doesn't know about the Queen, the Queen doesn't know about Willow, and the baby doesn't know anything cause she's a baby. We'll eventually meet more companions on Willow's quest like Madmartigan (Val Kilmer), a human swordsman, Sorsha, the Queen's daughter who switches sides, the Fairy Queen Cherlindrea, a group of miniature creatures called Brownies, the sorceress Fin Raziel and, oh nevermind I don't care. Look, there's some neat stuff in Willow. It's neat to see a fantasy epic where Warwick Davis is the hero and some of the action scenes are alright, but the whole thing is just a lame mess of fantasy gobbledygook with no substance. The villain is completely boring and develops no antagonism with the hero, the hero's journey is totally undercut by how many characters are shoved in there, and for all the specificity to the fantasy world the whole thing blurs into the generic sword and sorcery cliches. If you're looking for 80s fantasy, you're much better off with Labyrinth. DI'll get to Eat My Dust later.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on May 29, 2020 20:11:50 GMT -5
Did you notice that in Willow the henchman's name is General Kael (as in Pauline) and the two-headed monster is called the Eborsisk (Ebert and Siskel)?
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Post by PG Cooper on May 29, 2020 20:12:55 GMT -5
Did you notice that in Willow the henchman's name is General Kael (as in Pauline) and the two-headed monster is called the Eborsisk (Ebert and Siskel)? Lol, I did not.
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Post by Doomsday on May 29, 2020 20:21:11 GMT -5
For Ron Howard WillowI can see why Neverending was hesitant to recommend Willow. It's boring! I've always been aware of Willow as one of those 80s fantasy movies trying to touch a similar nerve as Star Wars (this one all the more interesting given George Lucas's involvement as a producer and his "story by" credit) and like a lot of those movies, Willow fails to grasp the simplicity that makes Star Wars's world so accessible. The film is overstuffed with characters and prophecies and vaguely generic fantasy tropes that nothing stands out. The catalyst for the story is the Evil Queen Bavmorda murdering the first born's because of a prophecy because of a prophecy that such a child will undue her rule. One such child is smuggled out with the wet nurse while the mother is executed, but then the wet nurse is find and she gets executed too, at which point the baby goes down river and eventually makes it to a dwarven village where she is taken in by a farmer and would-be sorcerer named Willow (Warwick Davis). Finally the story kicks off proper with Willow venturing out to the human world (or the world of the Daikini because 'human' would be too straightforward) to return the child...except at this point the character doesn't know about the Queen, the Queen doesn't know about Willow, and the baby doesn't know anything cause she's a baby. We'll eventually meet more companions on Willow's quest like Madmartigan (Val Kilmer), a human swordsman, Sorsha, the Queen's daughter who switches sides, the Fairy Queen Cherlindrea, a group of miniature creatures called Brownies, the sorceress Fin Raziel and, oh nevermind I don't care. Look, there's some neat stuff in Willow. It's neat to see a fantasy epic where Warwick Davis is the hero and some of the action scenes are alright, but the whole thing is just a lame mess of fantasy gobbledygook with no substance. The villain is completely boring and develops no antagonism with the hero, the hero's journey is totally undercut by how many characters are shoved in there, and for all the specificity to the fantasy world the whole thing blurs into the generic sword and sorcery cliches. If you're looking for 80s fantasy, you're much better off with Labyrinth. DI'll get to Eat My Dust later. Damn, harsh words for a childhood fav. You're right though, it's not that great and comes off as a LOTR knockoff. I've actually never seen Labyrinth, just FYI for any film club goers.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on May 29, 2020 21:41:22 GMT -5
Did you notice that in Willow the henchman's name is General Kael (as in Pauline) and the two-headed monster is called the Eborsisk (Ebert and Siskel)? One of my favorite bits of the Undpooled podcast is they look for famous bad reviews of the AFI 100 films. Pauline Kael was wrong. A lot.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on May 29, 2020 21:42:40 GMT -5
Glad you liked Ball of Fire, Coop.
Shame Hollywood is kind of hit and miss now when they try doing screwball.
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Post by PG Cooper on May 29, 2020 21:43:52 GMT -5
Did you notice that in Willow the henchman's name is General Kael (as in Pauline) and the two-headed monster is called the Eborsisk (Ebert and Siskel)? One of my favorite bits of the Undpooled podcast is they look for famous bad reviews of the AFI 100 films. Pauline Kael was wrong. A lot. Kael was a great writer with bad opinions. Speaking of Unspooled, their Bridge on the River Kwai review almost convinced me to do my own AFI podcast. Not worthy of the top 100 my ass.
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Post by IanTheCool on May 29, 2020 22:05:40 GMT -5
I haven't listened to that one yet. Seriously? Yeah, they've got some poor takes on some of these movies. They are too worried about their own images sometimes.
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Post by Neverending on May 29, 2020 22:17:04 GMT -5
One of my favorite bits of the Undpooled podcast is they look for famous bad reviews of the AFI 100 films. Pauline Kael was wrong. A lot. Kael was a great writer with bad opinions. Speaking of Unspooled, their Bridge on the River Kwai review almost convinced me to do my own AFI podcast. Not worthy of the top 100 my ass. It wouldn’t make my top 100 either
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Post by Dracula on May 29, 2020 22:46:19 GMT -5
One of my favorite bits of the Undpooled podcast is they look for famous bad reviews of the AFI 100 films. Pauline Kael was wrong. A lot. Kael was a great writer with bad opinions. Speaking of Unspooled, their Bridge on the River Kwai review almost convinced me to do my own AFI podcast. Not worthy of the top 100 my ass. If you really want to be inspired to do a better job listen to their Apocalypse Now episode.
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Post by Doomsday on May 29, 2020 23:28:05 GMT -5
I haven't even heard of this podcast, are they just movie blowhards looking to be different?
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Post by Dracula on May 29, 2020 23:36:09 GMT -5
I haven't even heard of this podcast, are they just movie blowhards looking to be different? It's Amy Nicholson, who is a film twitter personality who some kind of annoying contrarian opinoins here and there, and this other guy who isn't a critic and kind of feels like a pushover who doesn't know how to effectively challenge her. They're not like that with every movie but when they are it can be a bit much.
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Post by PG Cooper on May 29, 2020 23:41:48 GMT -5
Kael was a great writer with bad opinions. Speaking of Unspooled, their Bridge on the River Kwai review almost convinced me to do my own AFI podcast. Not worthy of the top 100 my ass. It wouldn’t make my top 100 either There's a difference between not having something in your personal top 100 and not recognizing why a film be worthy. On the Waterfront wouldn't be in my personal top 100 but it's still a choice I can get behind. Kwai would be in my top 100 though. That movie rules so fucking hard.
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Post by thebtskink on May 29, 2020 23:44:02 GMT -5
The other guy is comedian Paul Scheer and really the only thing keeping me coming back. And while he's still a pretty funny guy, he is kind of cowed into aw-schuks deference a lot.
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Post by Neverending on May 30, 2020 0:21:11 GMT -5
It wouldn’t make my top 100 either There's a difference between not having something in your personal top 100 and not recognizing why a film be worthy. On the Waterfront wouldn't be in my personal top 100 but it's still a choice I can get behind. Kwai would be in my top 100 though. That movie rules so fucking hard. Here’s the thing though. The 1998 (and 2007) list were compiled by Boomers (and some of their predecessors). If there were to be a 2020 edition made up largely by Gen-Xers and Millennials it would be a radically different list. You’d see more Tarantino. More Coen Bros. More David Fincher. More Richard Linklater. A few Pixar movies would slip in. If you were to give serious thought into what a modern AFI list would look like, TONS of movies from the original lists wouldn’t make the cut. Which is why AFI no longer does annual lists. There’s probably grandparents on the board of directors that want to preserve the mystique of those lists, but quite frankly, they’re super outdated and that was already apparent by the end. If the original CS! Boards were still around, you could have dug up our discussion threads for AFI lists and see how many people were scratching their heads. The 2004 one in particular had everyone pulling their hair out. It was the Best Songs list and people were so outraged that by the end of the night, everyone was posting their top 100 movie songs. So if 16 years ago we were saying “fuck this old people lists” just imagine now. If there were a 2020 AFI list, you know darn well Christopher Nolan movies are gonna make the list and possibly bump Bridge on the River Kwai off the list. Are you ready to argue with people over that? It’s a fight you’re not gonna win. You’ll be joining me and 1godzillafan on the Contrarian Squad. You couldn’t even win the Joker fight. You think you’re gonna win the Christopher Nolan fight? Get the fuck outta here. Anyway... I’m done rambling.
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Post by Neverending on May 30, 2020 0:43:14 GMT -5
PG Cooper, let me ramble some more. Go look at the 2001 list. The Best Thrills List. They have Terminator 2 at 77. Number 77. If that list were made today, 19 years later, Terminator 2 would be Top 5. Think about that giant leap for a moment. 77 to Top 5. That’s a fucking leap. It goes to show the massive cultural shift between Boomers and Millennials.
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Post by 1godzillafan on May 30, 2020 1:31:10 GMT -5
If I'm on the Contrarian Squad I insist on being captain. Otherwise I'm going to have to go AWOL.
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Post by Neverending on May 30, 2020 2:01:45 GMT -5
If I'm on the Contrarian Squad I insist on being captain. Otherwise I'm going to have to go AWOL. Doomsday has been Captain since 2008 when he declared war on Christopher Nolan.
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Post by PG Cooper on May 30, 2020 7:10:31 GMT -5
There's a difference between not having something in your personal top 100 and not recognizing why a film be worthy. On the Waterfront wouldn't be in my personal top 100 but it's still a choice I can get behind. Kwai would be in my top 100 though. That movie rules so fucking hard. Here’s the thing though. The 1998 (and 2007) list were compiled by Boomers (and some of their predecessors). If there were to be a 2020 edition made up largely by Gen-Xers and Millennials it would be a radically different list. You’d see more Tarantino. More Coen Bros. More David Fincher. More Richard Linklater. A few Pixar movies would slip in. If you were to give serious thought into what a modern AFI list would look like, TONS of movies from the original lists wouldn’t make the cut. Which is why AFI no longer does annual lists. There’s probably grandparents on the board of directors that want to preserve the mystique of those lists, but quite frankly, they’re super outdated and that was already apparent by the end. If the original CS! Boards were still around, you could have dug up our discussion threads for AFI lists and see how many people were scratching their heads. The 2004 one in particular had everyone pulling their hair out. It was the Best Songs list and people were so outraged that by the end of the night, everyone was posting their top 100 movie songs. So if 16 years ago we were saying “fuck this old people lists” just imagine now. If there were a 2020 AFI list, you know darn well Christopher Nolan movies are gonna make the list and possibly bump Bridge on the River Kwai off the list. Are you ready to argue with people over that? It’s a fight you’re not gonna win. You’ll be joining me and 1godzillafan on the Contrarian Squad. You couldn’t even win the Joker fight. You think you’re gonna win the Christopher Nolan fight? Get the fuck outta here. Anyway... I’m done rambling. PG Cooper, let me ramble some more. Go look at the 2001 list. The Best Thrills List. They have Terminator 2 at 77. Number 77. If that list were made today, 19 years later, Terminator 2 would be Top 5. Think about that giant leap for a moment. 77 to Top 5. That’s a fucking leap. It goes to show the massive cultural shift between Boomers and Millennials. Believe me I'm not precious about the AFI lists. I'd rip out movies like My Fair Lady, Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, Patton, Mutiny on the Bounty, Dances with Wolves, Forrest Gump, Tootsie and a couple of orders without a second thought. The Bridge on the River Kwai is not one of those movies. That shit holds up. And before you say young people wouldn't like it it's worth remembering I'm the youngest person on this board and loved that shit when I was in high school. Certainly any of the AFI lists would change with time and with a younger group picking the films, but that doesn't invalidate the older films on the list. Recency bias is a thing. And to clarify, the bigger issue is not that Unspooled didn't like Kwai, it's that listening to the hosts (one of which a professional film critic) scratch their craniums going "I can't understand why this even made the list" is infuriating. Like, shit, y'all are the hosts, shouldn't you be explaining why? To use a personal example, Gone with the Wind is number four on the 1998 greatest films list. I borderline hate that movie. I think it's long and boring and that its racism isn't just problematic but actively harmful. But I understand why it made the list. I can contextualize it within its place in film history to understand why its seen as worthy, even if I disagree. As for why AFI haven't made another list, I'm with Dracula. They know they'd be raked over the coals for whatever list they make being too white/cis/straight/male and that it isn't worth the trouble.
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Post by PG Cooper on May 30, 2020 7:21:36 GMT -5
NeverendingOne thing I'll quickly add, some of the most puzzling choices the AFI makes comes from when they try to pick more contemporary movies. You mentioned the 100 thrills list and I'd argue that's actually one of the best lists they've done. We could argue about placement but most of the films included are pretty darn great. But then you see The Fugitive at 33, higher than Casablanca, Notorious, Die Hard, Terminator 1 and 2, Halloween, The Third Man, etc. And like, The Fugitive is a good little movie but not one anyone really cares about anymore.
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Post by 1godzillafan on May 30, 2020 8:03:20 GMT -5
I love The Fugitive and My Fair Lady, goddammit.
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Post by thebtskink on May 30, 2020 8:19:56 GMT -5
PG Cooper, that is one hot take you got there.
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Post by Neverending on May 30, 2020 8:28:36 GMT -5
PG Cooper, I didn’t know the context of the podcast. In that case, you’re absolutely correct. The 1998 list makes sense. The ordering is weird as hell and does a giant disservice to Citizen Kane, but the selection of films make sense. Really, the only issue with the list is their definition of American movies. If they’re gonna put David Lean on the list, which quite frankly are British films — let’s not kid ourselves, they could have included other borderline American productions like the Sergio Leone movies. The Good, The Bad and The Ugly was financed by United Artists. Once Upon a Time in the West was financed by Paramount. Once Upon a Time in America was financed by Regency and The Alan Ladd Company/Warner Bros. All three films had American stars in the lead roles. When AFI did their Top Movie Stars list, when they got to Henry Fonda, they showed a clip from Once Upon a Time in the West. If I had rolled my eyes an further I would have seen the back of my skull.
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Post by PG Cooper on May 30, 2020 8:42:34 GMT -5
PG Cooper, I didn’t know the context of the podcast. In that case, you’re absolutely correct. The 1998 list makes sense. The ordering is weird as hell and does a giant disservice to Citizen Kane, but the selection of films make sense. Really, the only issue with the list is their definition of American movies. If they’re gonna put David Lean on the list, which quite frankly are British films — let’s not kid ourselves, they could have included other borderline American productions like the Sergio Leone movies. The Good, The Bad and The Ugly was financed by United Artists. Once Upon a Time in the West was financed by Paramount. Once Upon a Time in America was financed by Regency and The Alan Ladd Company/Warner Bros. All three films had American stars in the lead roles. When AFI did their Top Movie Stars list, when they got to Henry Fonda, they showed a clip from Once Upon a Time in the West. If I had rolled my eyes an further I would have seen the back of my skull. Yeah they play somewhat fast and loose with their definition of American movies. Similar argument can be made for putting James Bond (and specifically citing his appearance in Dr. No) on their top 50 film heroes list.
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Post by thebtskink on May 30, 2020 9:26:59 GMT -5
PG Cooper, that is one hot take you got there. This in regards to your Fugitive slander
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