Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Sept 5, 2019 2:44:23 GMT -5
- CGI is not scary
- Random comedy doesn’t work in horror. You need to establish humor early on and keep it consistent.
- Weak “love story”
- James McAvoy’s awful American accent
- Seizure inducing finale
Some of the characters and performances are good. Fun cameos. And there’s a good “moral to the story.” Other than that, close but no cigar.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Sept 5, 2019 7:49:41 GMT -5
Bev train?
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Sept 5, 2019 8:26:38 GMT -5
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1godzillafan
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Post by 1godzillafan on Sept 5, 2019 21:33:43 GMT -5
That movie left me with so many unanswered questions, like why the fuck does a horror movie have to be three hours long?
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Sept 5, 2019 22:18:04 GMT -5
That movie left me with so many unanswered questions, like why the fuck does a horror movie have to be three hours long? Flashbacks: The Movie
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Sept 5, 2019 22:40:41 GMT -5
*** out of Five
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Sept 6, 2019 18:28:03 GMT -5
Yeah...I liked it, but kind of in spite of itself at times. You can tell that the success of Chapter One went to Andy Muschietti's, Gary Dauberman's, et. all's heads because Chapter Two has such a "We can do whatever we want now" kind of feel. For every decision, scene/set piece, performance, etc. that I thought was good, there were just as many that made me think, "Well, that could've been handled better" or "That could've been left on the cutting room floor." The biggest culprit there is the Second Act and the sheer amount of flashbacks. I can understand having a couple in there, but it feels like the movie goes out of its way to accommodate those, which can really mess with the pacing more often than not. It also makes the middle portion of the film seem like its spinning its wheels a little more so than driving the plot forward that much. Like Dracula said, it starts to feel too episodic. But pacing issues extend to the rest of the film, though, the climax included. This really does feel like a three-hour movie.
On the other hand, when this movie works, it works. The performances are all good, there's solid chemistry between the actors, effective stretches of tension (even if the movie relies a bit too much on CGI this time around), etc. and there is enough on display there to ultimately outweigh most of the film's shakier aspects. If only just.
Hovering around a **1/2 or ***
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Sept 7, 2019 13:55:14 GMT -5
Plodding, repetitive, and totally unimaginative. Part of the blame is certainly King's writing, which is always problematic despite his best intentions and ambitions, but the movie also has massive pacing issues and an ending that's total shit. Doubles down on the weaknesses of the first film.
Full review tomorrow, perhaps, but this is a 5/10 thanks only to Bill Hader and James Ransone.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Sept 7, 2019 13:58:43 GMT -5
The Pennywise stuff was so dull. Imagine the worst death scenes from the Nightmare on Elm Street sequels...where no one dies, and that's what we sit through for 3 hours.
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daniel
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Post by daniel on Sept 7, 2019 19:24:23 GMT -5
Thanks for the reviews, y'all. I didn't enjoy the first one much, so I'll wait to see this for free.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Sept 8, 2019 15:34:05 GMT -5
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Sept 10, 2019 21:45:29 GMT -5
Two years ago, It was a monumental hit that broke box office records, ushered in a wave of greenlit Stephen King properties, and was definitely a cultural phenomenon in its own right becoming wildly popular, quotable, and parodied. None of this should have come as a surprise to anyone, as the property has always been among King's most popular, if not his most, and there's always been a sort of odd affinity amongst people for the 1990 miniseries starring Tim Curry despite it not being any good outside of his wonderful performance as Pennywise. It was a massive hit critically and commercially, and while I certainly had a lot of issues with it found to mostly be in agreement that it was a fun film and a worthy adaptation of King's work, bolstered by the strong work of its young cast and of course the scene stealing abilities of Bill Skarsgard as Pennywise. But it only told the first part of the lengthy novel, so inevitably we would be graced with the second part which is sort of universally agreed upon to be pretty inferior to its predecessor, both with the novel and the miniseries. Well unfortunately this also holds true for the film version, which doubles down on the first film's weaknesses while squandering the few casting strengths it can flex. Whereas the first film felt fresh and the mystique of Pennywise against a group of kids was somewhat suspenseful, It: Chapter Two introduces absurd mythos, a frustratingly repetitive storytelling structure, and an even more frustrating lack of signature scenes with Pennywise none of which culminates into anything frightening or compelling and is only mildly entertaining. Yes, it's a worthy enough companion piece to the first film, bringing back the young cast and interweaving them with the present adults, but a film that doesn't expand on anything well and certainly can't stand on its own feet as a singular film. Twenty-seven years after the events of the first film in 1989, the young heroes of Derry, Maine that thwarted Pennywise are now spread out across the country living distant lives and appear to bear no recollection of the events that dramatically shaped all of their lives. The film opens on an odd hate crime where a man is thrown over a bridge and into the water below, where he succumbs to the reappeared Pennywise. It's not an entirely well done scene that poorly reintroduces the presence of Pennywise, but shortly after this event some children in Derry go missing, prompting the one member of the Losers still living in Derry, Mike (Isaiah Mustafa), to connect the dots and contacts each of the Losers to reunite as promised to defeat Pennywise. We're then reintroduced to the characters of the first film, now as adults, who all show reluctance to come back but eventually all do (save for one). Bill (James McAvoy) is a Hollywood screenwriter who is a sort of self-referential character to Stephen King himself in that he writes compelling premises and material but finishes it all off with terrible endings. Beverly (Jessica Chastain) doesn't get a lot of material or background surprisingly, aside that she's in a bad relationship with an abusive husband. Despite perhaps being the most interesting character in the first film, Chastain is utterly wasted in this role here, being little more than the one girl in the group of guys and nothing more. Richie (Bill Hader) is a successful comedian and carries the film throughout with his sharp humor and comical pessimism. James Ransone as Eddie also brings much needed levity and humor to the film, and one shudders to think of this tepid, lengthy affair without Hader and Ransone breathing life into the story as all of the other members of the cast are wasted as stock characters that really aren't much different from one another in either their execution or personal demons surfaced by Pennywise. The best moments of the film are certainly when all of them are together, including a very well done restaurant scene where the gang drinks and revel in happy nostalgia, but surprisingly these moments are sort of far and few between as instead the film attempts over its lengthy running time to separate them out so we can be subjected to sequence after sequence of them squaring off solo against Pennywise. While this should be where the film builds momentum in both suspense and dramatic weight by exploring each character's inner depths, it sadly becomes a plodding example of repetition where each character revisits retreaded material from the first film only to narrowly escape Pennywise...every, single, time. It's the equivalent of taking the most uninspired dream sequences from the Nightmare on Elm Street sequels and applying them here, only where no one dies. This was a big issue I had with the first film in that it largely failed to generate any real suspense where Pennywise never really seems to exert his full powers and the kids just sort of run away over and over, and this problem is deeply worsened here. I understand this is the novel, and these films are attempting to be as faithful as they can be to the source material to a definite fault, but that's not an excuse for the lack of genuine thrills in this movie. It's a movie that is unnecessarily long, throwing the same game at you over and over while expanding on absolutely nothing. There's a good chemistry to the cast despite the material not benefitting the most talented of the group here in Chastain and McAvoy, but when these characters are split apart is where the film also falls apart, dragging its feet for nearly three hours and boring its audience with it. All of this crescendos into one of the most lackluster conclusions to a horror film one is apt to view. Yes, I understand this is the end of the novel, but to call it anything but a letdown will result in you being accused of drinking the Stephen King kool-aid. King is undoubtedly a talented, gifted writer who has wonderful ambition and ideas that have led to his massive success, but at the same time there's a lot to his work that feels poorly constructed or not thought out at all, and It is certainly a casualty of this. It: Chapter Two reveals the mythos of Pennywise and how he came to Earth and the past attempts to thwart him. All of this comes off as immensely silly and even more so out of place, attempting to establish him as a sort of entity that is massively powerful and has the ability to essentially destroy mankind. It's way too broad for a movie that operates on a smaller scale and just doesn't fit here at all. The exposition comes off hokey and ridiculous, even for a movie about a shape shifting evil clown. It raises a lot more perplexing rebuttals to the events of the film than it does answers, and makes his inability to kill these damn people even more infuriatingly preposterous. It's all pretty sloppy, and then leads to the most hamfisted copout of the summer when Pennywise is defeated by the Losers shouting degrading things at him. It's not satisfying in the slightest and even worse doesn't feel earned to fit with the themes the film is trying to present through its cast about overcoming fear and embracing who you are. To look back on watching these two films for around five hours for it all to culminate into that climax is entirely unsatisfying and uninspired. Nothing feels really earned in the film, just presented, and it's a resounding disappointment all around when you reflect on what could have been. The movie commits a lot of sins, worst of all that Skarsgard has a minuscule amount of screen time and perhaps only one or two signature scenes at best. Pennywise is one of those characters that's remembered fondly, but when you actually sift through the material realize he's a great concept with middling execution. And that's essentially what these two films are as well. Or maybe this is the best version of this story that can be adapted to film without drastically altering the faults of the novel itself. Well, it was a fun enough diversion while it lasted, but audiences deserved more. 5/10
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Pbar
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Post by Pbar on Sept 14, 2019 12:44:22 GMT -5
Didn't care that 20 minutes of this movie were clips from the first one (which I hated.) Also didn't like that the movie was mean spirited for the sake of it.
That said, I was mostly fine with this. Reminded me of the first Avengers - starts very very poorly, gets ok, and by the end is pretty good.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Sept 15, 2019 18:50:34 GMT -5
It: Chapter 2(9/5/2019)
Warning: Review Contains Light Spoilers
I try not to get too wrapped up with box office numbers, but sometimes when the right movie becomes a hit it can feel really good. The success of the movie It in 2017 was one of those cases. While not exactly what you’d call high art it was in many the kind of product that you hope for from large studio filmmaking: a solidly made adaptation of a respectable property which didn’t compromise more than it had to. Seeing that R-rated horror adaptation make $123 million dollars in its opening weekend and later end up among the top ten highest grossing of that year right between two MCU movies was really satisfying. This success had a lot to do with timing; Stephen King has always been relevant but the popularity of “Stranger Things” had really primed the audience for his brand of horror storytelling and the fact that this was focusing on the suburban childhood aspects of the book and that its milieu was moved from the 50s to the 80s really strengthened that connection. That’s not to say the movie entirely has the TV show to thank for the money it made but both properties were certainly tapping in to the same nostalgia vein that people really wanted tapped in 2017. Now, as happy as I was by the film’s success I wouldn’t go so far as to say it was one of my favorite films that year. In fact in my original review of the film I felt a little hesitant to pass judgement at all simply because I knew this second half was coming and wanted to see if some of the elements I thought were lumpy would pay off and to know for sure if it was going to stick the landing.
Set twenty seven years after the events of the first movie, It: Chapter 2 opens with an attack by Pennywise (Bill Skarsgård) which Mike Hanlon (Isaiah Mustafa) gets word of and realizes that this evil entity has returned on schedule. As Mike is the only member of “The Loser’s Club” who has remained in Derry all these years he takes it upon himself to call his old friends and reunite them in order to kill the monster once and for all. The “club” members lives have gone in different directions: Bill Denbrough (James McAvoy) is a horror novelist, Beverly Marsh (Jessica Chastain) is in an abusive marriage, Richie Tozier (Bill Hader) is a standup comedian, Ben Hanscom (Jay Ryan) has lost a lot of weight and is a wealthy architect, and Eddie Kaspbrak (James Ransone) has a desk job. They all reunite out of a sort of obligation but when they arrive many of them have forgotten about their fight with Pennywise as a function of how that entity’s magic works. Once they arrive and their memory is jogged many of them are reluctant to stay, especially after some scary encounters, but when they learn about the suicide of Stanley Uris (Andy Bean) who the one member who didn’t show up, they become resolved to finish the fight.
The big conversation leading up to the release of this film largely had to do with its running time. The movie is about 2 hours and 50 minutes long, which is not something I inherently have any problems with because to me that isn’t very unusual; it’s about ten minutes longer than Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, which I loved, and ten minutes shorter than Avengers: Endgame, which the masses flocked to. Given that the movie was half of an adaptation of a thousand page book it seemed largely reasonable and I was looking forward to seeing the film and telling all the haters that they were being silly for freaking out about that. Then I saw the movie and… yeah, it’s too long. Well, it’s not so much that it’s literally too long, I wouldn’t exactly say I lost interest in it over time or anything, but it has a bizarre structure and becomes repetitive in ways that eventually undermine it.
Take the opening scene, which is a disturbing depiction of a hate crime perpetuated against a gay couple which ends with one of them being thrown off a bridge and then murdered by Pennywise. It’s a strongly rendered scene, but what is it doing in this movie? We never see the attack’s survivor again or the human attackers and while it does serve to announce Pennywise’s return that could have been achieved just as easily by moving a later attack against a kid at a baseball game (which is shorter, fits Pennywise’s MO better, and has less baggage) to the beginning. Then there’s the character of Henry Bowers; in my review of the first film I said “there are elements of it like the Henry Bowers sub-plot which I would criticize as being superfluous and in need of cutting if not for the fact that I suspect it will come up again in the sequel,” and while he does indeed come back his presence in the sequel ends up being as much of a time waste as he was in the first. His three or so scenes are well made, I can see why a director would be attached to them and want to leave them in, but he ultimately has no effect at all on the plot beyond being one more obstacle and has only the slightest effect on theme, so his presence here only lengthens the movie and does very little to justify is presence in the last movie either.
Superfluous as those scenes were, they can be set aside as merely misjudged extravagances on the part of director Andy Muschietti, who seems to be going into this sequel with a lot more confidence and money than he did before after the massive success of the first film. The bigger structural problem with the film is that it’s basically a movie with six protagonists and feels obligated to give each of them equal screen time. For instance the film has to begin by Mike making six different phone calls to each of his former friends one after another, forcing the movie to stop and give us six different vignettes about where these people are in their lives. That might be a necessary expository tool (aside from the weird domestic violence vignette in Beverly’s introduction which is kind of left dangling), but what’s less forgivable is how the film then spends a lot of its first half sending each of the six characters out to find “artifacts from their past.” In practice that means six episodic segments in a row of a character going somewhere in the town, having a flashback to some moment of their past too inconsequential to have been in the first movie, and then having Pennywise fuck with them in some ineffective way.
Pennywise’s habit of appearing before our main characters to creep them out rather than actually kill them was actually a problem I had with the first movie. In my review of that movie I said “every other time we see him he seems to have taken the form of the clown specifically for the purposes of scaring the crap out of the kids he’s elected to target for unknown reasons and he spends a whole lot of time playing largely ineffective mind games with them” but I sort of let it go because you could sort of explain it away as Pennywise underestimating The Losers Club, but it’s harder to forgive here as we see six episodes in a row of him jumping out and going “boo” at our heroes and them getting away from it unscathed. And beyond simply making the first chunk of this movie kind of tedious it also kind of hurts the rest of the film because it makes Pennywise a bit of a paper tiger who can’t actually hurt anyone, which is kind of a suspense killer. At its heart I think the problem here is that in the original novel this half of the story with the characters as adults were meant to act as something of a framing story to the scenes with the kids rather than a standalone narrative unto itself. That makes the film kind of awkward because instead of flashing back to the actual important parts of their childhood (which were all in the first movie) they just flash back to some random crap that belongs on the cutting room floor.
Despite these structural problems there is a lot here to like. For one thing the casting here is really strong. These certainly won’t go down as the best performances of James McAvoy or Jessica Chastain, not even close, but they are definitely believable as older versions of those characters from the first film and the same can be said of most of the less famous actors in the film. Then there’s Bill Hader, who like his fellow cast mates makes perfect sense as an older version of that character and he’s been widely considered to be a standout element of the film because of the comic relief he provides. This praise is largely deserved, he is quite funny in the film and commands the screen when he’s in it, but his role in the film is a bit of a double edged sword. There is definitely a place for levity even in the most hardcore of horror cinema but here Hader is doing so much comedy that it does sort of hurt the tension a little, or at least it contributes to the other problems the film has with Pennywise’s general ineffectiveness. Really the whole movie has a much different tone from the first movie in no small part because of this. In fact it almost feels more like a summer blockbuster than a true horror film, especially considering that a lot of the film’s scares involve CGI imagery, some of which is more effective than others.
What I’d really like, is to see a supercut of the first and second film put together into an epic five hour movie that cuts between the two timelines. Maybe in that context the characters artifact hunts would seem less like repetitive time wasting and maybe that long runtime would make Bill Hader’s comedy seem less omnipresent and more like a true relief from the rest of the horror. As an individual movie though It: Chapter 2 is kind of a weird movie that’s hard to really call “good” or “bad.” I can rattle off a whole checklist of ways that it’s misshapen and indulgent but it would be hard to really say I disliked it or that I didn’t appreciate having seen it. The things that do work in it work quite well and frankly I’d rather a movie fail through over-reach than through mundanity. So if you liked the first movie, by all means see the second but go in with the expectation that it’s meant to give a fairly different experience than you got from the first one and that it’s going to be a bit of a bumpy ride at times.
*** out of Five
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frankyt
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Post by frankyt on Sept 22, 2019 8:22:21 GMT -5
Meh. Jay Ryan has to be one of the worst casting decisions in a long time. And what an eye roll inducing ending. Is this how it ends in the book too?
5/10
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IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Sept 23, 2019 7:48:10 GMT -5
Disappointing.
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IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Sept 23, 2019 20:46:13 GMT -5
Okay, so let me work this out. First, maybe things are inherently less scary because its adults now, not kids? Also, what was with them not being able to remember even living in the town until they're together again? (except for Stanley apparently). That was kinda pointless, and pretty tough to buy.
The scare scenes were monotonous. First off, they set up this plot device of the "tokens", so it became apparent pretty quickly what the pattern was, and we had to see it repeated 6 times. Also, instead of going for the creep factor, they went for the gore/gross-out factor, which was really disappointing and far less effective. Oh, there was also a giant paul bunyon statue which just reminds me of that one halloween episode of Simpsons where the billboards come to life.
I do like Pennywise as a villain, but after the established pattern I just mentioned,and the fact that his first kills proved to be essentially irrelevant to the rest of the movie, he wasn't nearly as menacing. I also thought the ending was pretty dumb and didn't make a lot of thematic sense.
The ending did feel epic, and much of the casting was pretty spot on. I did think they venerated the original film and the kid's relationships a little too much, but oh well.
All in all, a disappointment. I really liked the first film. Which (I feel a rant coming on) would have been a great horror film, encapsulated as its own thing, and wouldn't have needed this movie as a follow-up. Except... that they just HAD to throw up that "chapter 1" tidbit at the very end. Noooo... it couldn't exist as its own entity could it? You just had to franchise it, didn't you? And now it is left as incomplete without the second half, which ended up being a let-down. Good job, movie studio.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Sept 23, 2019 21:05:52 GMT -5
All in all, a disappointment. I really liked the first film. Which (I feel a rant coming on) would have been a great horror film, encapsulated as its own thing, and wouldn't have needed this movie as a follow-up. Except... that they just HAD to throw up that "chapter 1" tidbit at the very end. Noooo... it couldn't exist as its own entity could it? You just had to franchise it, didn't you? And now it is left as incomplete without the second half, which ended up being a let-down. Good job, movie studio. That's a little unfair. These movies are both based on separate halves of a book, so it's not like the idea of making a second movie came out of nowhere after the financial success of the first movie.
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