IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Dec 24, 2017 8:42:33 GMT -5
All this nerd rage is driving me crazy.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Dec 24, 2017 8:45:03 GMT -5
Nice review, Drac. You also bring up a good point regarding the fact that The First Order seems to be the full on Empire now while the Resistance is on its last legs despite Force Awakens' ending suggesting they were on more even footing. A little thing in the grand scheme of things but it is reflective of Johnson's, "fuck the last movie, I do what I want" approach. Yeah, this is partly TFA's fault. I've been told that the basic excuse for this is supposed to be that the part in TFA where they blow up those planets with Death Star 3.0 was supposed to be devastating and that it took out the New Republic Senate and a most of their fleet. It's apparently clearer in the novelization but they don't emphasize it at all in the movie (where it just feels like yet another callback) and it's jarring when they run with that in the sequel.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Dec 24, 2017 10:50:10 GMT -5
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Fanible
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Post by Fanible on Dec 24, 2017 16:51:40 GMT -5
Nice review, Drac. You also bring up a good point regarding the fact that The First Order seems to be the full on Empire now while the Resistance is on its last legs despite Force Awakens' ending suggesting they were on more even footing. A little thing in the grand scheme of things but it is reflective of Johnson's, "fuck the last movie, I do what I want" approach. Yeah, this is partly TFA's fault. I've been told that the basic excuse for this is supposed to be that the part in TFA where they blow up those planets with Death Star 3.0 was supposed to be devastating and that it took out the New Republic Senate and a most of their fleet. It's apparently clearer in the novelization but they don't emphasize it at all in the movie (where it just feels like yet another callback) and it's jarring when they run with that in the sequel. Definitely one of the easier plot points that could have been explained, which wasn't really. Having the First Order destroy 5 planets at once, even if their big resource was wiped out, could have definitely scared enough allies to not defy them, lest they be destroyed as well. It's not really brought up, but I guess it's supposed to be implied when no one responds to Leia.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Dec 24, 2017 17:06:24 GMT -5
Yeah, this is partly TFA's fault. I've been told that the basic excuse for this is supposed to be that the part in TFA where they blow up those planets with Death Star 3.0 was supposed to be devastating and that it took out the New Republic Senate and a most of their fleet. It's apparently clearer in the novelization but they don't emphasize it at all in the movie (where it just feels like yet another callback) and it's jarring when they run with that in the sequel. Definitely one of the easier plot points that could have been explained, which wasn't really. Having the First Order destroy 5 planets at once, even if their big resource was wiped out, could have definitely scared enough allies to not defy them, lest they be destroyed as well. It's not really brought up, but I guess it's supposed to be implied when no one responds to Leia.
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Post by RedVader on Dec 24, 2017 18:07:01 GMT -5
Question can Johnson do a movie where we get new Star Wars characters. Lets say new jedi and sith where he isnt got the pressures of a luke and leia and so on. Love what he did acting wise with rey, kylo ren and Finns characters. He was much better with the future characters.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Dec 24, 2017 18:13:42 GMT -5
Question can Johnson do a movie where we get new Star Wars characters. Lets say new jedi and sith where he isnt got the pressures of a luke and leia and so on. Love what he did acting wise with rey, kylo ren and Finns characters. He was much better with the future characters. That’s the plan, Jack.
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Post by RedVader on Dec 24, 2017 20:02:02 GMT -5
No the question is would his own characters be better suited without the classic well beloved character pressure.
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IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Dec 25, 2017 9:08:30 GMT -5
No the question is would his own characters be better suited without the classic well beloved character pressure. Well he did a pretty damn good job with this one, despite what Drac says.
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Jibbs
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Post by Jibbs on Dec 25, 2017 15:29:48 GMT -5
Unlike the original trilogy that told us everything about the emperor? The movie didnt ask the question for years, super fans on the internet did.
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Post by RedVader on Dec 25, 2017 18:35:25 GMT -5
Only thing about this movie Is Im just not buying a certain character is gone cause i am pretty sure This persons body was decaying anyway and I am having this whole he has Clone Bodies but they get used up fast because he needs a perfect host body.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Dec 25, 2017 18:43:38 GMT -5
Unlike the original trilogy that told us everything about the emperor? The movie didnt ask the question for years, super fans on the internet did. That was different. The original trilogy came out before audiences had an understanding of the history of the galaxy. Those movies started right in the middle of the conflict, for all we knew the Emperor was simply the son of the previous emperor. Things are different this time around, we knew there was a happy ending at one point and that this Snoke guy somehow undid that. It's reasonable to ask who would be able to do such a thing, especially given that he's personally responsible for seducing Kylo to the dark side.
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FShuttari
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Post by FShuttari on Dec 26, 2017 22:12:22 GMT -5
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Dec 26, 2017 23:14:37 GMT -5
I've seen takes like that and I don't buy them. For one thing, if this is about dismantling the old order it does an incredibly bad job of making a case for there having been a problem with the old order to begin with. Almost all the New Republic's failings are completely off-screen; we have no reason to think that the rise of the First Order was the result of overly traditional or hierarchical thinking and if anything their big mistake seems to have been not having a big enough army and given that they were only twenty-thirty years removed from their own revolution it would seem like the old order was already pre-burned. What's more the Resistance isn't any more diverse and female than the First Order (well, at least not much more) and the character who seems to take the most glee in the concept of burning the older order down is actually Kylo Ren. I also don't for the life of me see why people think Rey being the daughter of "nobodies" is some profound revelation. The prequels more than established that there are a multitude of force-sensitive Jedi out there, they obviously weren't all Skywalkers and given that the Jedi appear to have been celibate a whole lot of them must have come from "nobodies," including and especially Anakin. The reason people were disappointed in the Rey reveal wasn't because they insist she needs to have Jedi parents, it's because the last movie went out of its way to hint that there was something in her past to explain why she has so much combat skill without any sort of training. Which is also where this supposed egalitarian message falls apart: while Rey may not have known Jedi parents her skills are still a quirk of birth. She is born, for whatever reason, with an off the charts high medichlorian count and thus instantly becomes a flawless warrior without having to work for it.
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FShuttari
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Post by FShuttari on Dec 26, 2017 23:19:36 GMT -5
I think Kylo Ren lied to Rey about her parents.
Now that JJ is back, I’m sure he’ll do something completely different with her parents.
Basically the next movie will feel like the real sequel to “Force Awakens” while the middle part will kind of be a spin off/off shot of the series.
It’s kind of obvious Rain Johnson was more intent on setting up his new trilogy with new Jedi powers, and new jedis then he was interested in making a sequel to Force Awakens
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Deexan
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Post by Deexan on Dec 27, 2017 8:07:45 GMT -5
At least we can all agree on the fact that Justin Theroux's cameo was excellent and pray for a spin-off featuring him and his moustache.
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frankyt
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Post by frankyt on Dec 27, 2017 8:25:57 GMT -5
I found those themes of kill the past etc to be more Johnson saying it to the fans. Saying kill the past so we can move on, death of Luke, new powers, erasing the history of the Jedi, etc. It wasn't effective for me, needless to say.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Dec 27, 2017 9:30:48 GMT -5
I found those themes of kill the past etc to be more Johnson saying it to the fans. Saying kill the past so we can move on, death of Luke, new powers, erasing the history of the Jedi, etc. It wasn't effective for me, needless to say. Yeah, that would have made a lot more sense if they had just come out the gate with these sequels saying "kill the past." Instead they put out The Force Awakens, which was reverent to the past almost to a fault and was greeted with near universal approval and is currently the highest grossing movie of all time. This basically makes it seem like they're fixing something that isn't really broken just for the sake of change.
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Jibbs
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Post by Jibbs on Dec 27, 2017 17:41:11 GMT -5
ALMOST to a fault?
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Dec 27, 2017 18:27:03 GMT -5
I found those themes of kill the past etc to be more Johnson saying it to the fans. Saying kill the past so we can move on, death of Luke, new powers, erasing the history of the Jedi, etc. It wasn't effective for me, needless to say. Yeah, that would have made a lot more sense if they had just come out the gate with these sequels saying "kill the past." Instead they put out The Force Awakens, which was reverent to the past almost to a fault and was greeted with near universal approval and is currently the highest grossing movie of all time. This basically makes it seem like they're fixing something that isn't really broken just for the sake of change. J.J. Abrams is directing Episode 9. Let’s wait & see. Last Jedi could be the awkward middle chapter... or the start of something else.
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IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Dec 28, 2017 20:44:57 GMT -5
Star Wars is back, and this time so is Luke Skywalker! And I must say, seeing him as a full-fledged, aging Jedi is simply awesome. He has grown very powerful yet world-weary, and I really think they took him in the right direction. Mark Hamill sunk right back into the character and took him places that were different but still within the reality of the Luke we know. In fact that statement is a pretty good generalization for this movie as a whole.
When Force Awakens came out, I was giddy because the new characters worked so well. Its nice to see that it was not just a fluke. Rey has truly grown into a great movie hero. She is interesting, captivating, instantly likable, and yet complex in an empathetic way. Every time she was on screen the movie worked. Kylo Ren is also a great villain and also grew in his role this time around. The two of them had great chemistry together and, along with their triumvirate with Luke, built a solid core for this story.
Its great seeing all the Star Wars-isms anew: interesting planet locations, new creatures, space battles, etc. There are certainly motifs from the original trilogy, harking back to Echo Base and the Emperor’s throne room, but the story structure here is definitely its own and went places I expected it to either shy away from or hold back, especially near the end.
The powers of the Jedi and the Force are expanded on in a way that seems like it should have bugged me, but I just went with. I like the idea of the Force expanding beyond what we already knew, especially when you think about how Luke has been working with his powers for the last 30 years. I can understand the argument of using the Force as a catch all to do what they want, like lots of superhero movies are guilty of lately, but I didn’t feel that was the case here. These new abilities felt natural to me, and I liked that it went new places.
On a more technical aspect, this movie looked incredible. This film is full of vivid, eye-popping colours, from the red plumes of the salt planet, the rich green’s of Luke’s island, and the already-famous Red Room scene. There were some really interesting shots and camera effects, including a major one involving a couple of starships. You can tell this was a movie made by craftsmen and not just studio shills.
Now for my main problem with this new Star Wars chapter which I was otherwise completely taken by. I didn’t really care for the new characters – Rose, Laura Dern, Benicio- as they seemed too artificial somehow. Rose ends up becoming a pretty big deal, but lets face it, shes not in the same league as Finn, Rey or even Poe. She felt like she would fit in better in Rogue One. Laura Dern really didn’t feel like she was in a Star Wars movie, even though I liked what they did with her character, and Benecio’s “scoundrel” was kind of like “who cares?”
As such, I enjoyed their part of the story less than the Jedi plotlines. Which is too bad, because it drags down some of the momentum, and ties up Finn when he could have been doing cooler things. The casino planet had a little too much “prequel” to it.
I also didn’t like the very last shot. I understand its significance, but the shot right before that was perfect place to end it. I was ready to start pumping my fist, expecting the trumpets and end credits to blare, but instead got one more tacked on scene, calling back to the one part in the movie I didn’t like, and really killed the end-movie momentum. Oh well.
On the whole, I am very enthusiastic about The Last Jedi, reservations about new characters aside. But I mean hey, maybe they’ll grow on me. I really see this new trilogy as great predecessors to the first three films. They feel like they have taken to story to a natural yet new place, and I am loving it. This had interactions between new and old favourite heroes and villains, lots of truly memorable moments, and another great addition into the Star Wars saga.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Dec 28, 2017 21:59:01 GMT -5
Star Wars is back, and this time so is Luke Skywalker! And I must say, seeing him as a full-fledged, aging Jedi is simply awesome. He has grown very powerful yet world-weary, and I really think they took him in the right direction. Mark Hamill sunk right back into the character and took him places that were different but still within the reality of the Luke we know. In fact that statement is a pretty good generalization for this movie as a whole. When Force Awakens came out, I was giddy because the new characters worked so well. Its nice to see that it was not just a fluke. Rey has truly grown into a great movie hero. She is interesting, captivating, instantly likable, and yet complex in an empathetic way. Every time she was on screen the movie worked. Kylo Ren is also a great villain and also grew in his role this time around. The two of them had great chemistry together and, along with their triumvirate with Luke, built a solid core for this story. Its great seeing all the Star Wars-isms anew: interesting planet locations, new creatures, space battles, etc. There are certainly motifs from the original trilogy, harking back to Echo Base and the Emperor’s throne room, but the story structure here is definitely its own and went places I expected it to either shy away from or hold back, especially near the end. The powers of the Jedi and the Force are expanded on in a way that seems like it should have bugged me, but I just went with. I like the idea of the Force expanding beyond what we already knew, especially when you think about how Luke has been working with his powers for the last 30 years. I can understand the argument of using the Force as a catch all to do what they want, like lots of superhero movies are guilty of lately, but I didn’t feel that was the case here. These new abilities felt natural to me, and I liked that it went new places. On a more technical aspect, this movie looked incredible. This film is full of vivid, eye-popping colours, from the red plumes of the salt planet, the rich green’s of Luke’s island, and the already-famous Red Room scene. There were some really interesting shots and camera effects, including a major one involving a couple of starships. You can tell this was a movie made by craftsmen and not just studio shills. Now for my main problem with this new Star Wars chapter which I was otherwise completely taken by. I didn’t really care for the new characters – Rose, Laura Dern, Benicio- as they seemed too artificial somehow. Rose ends up becoming a pretty big deal, but lets face it, shes not in the same league as Finn, Rey or even Poe. She felt like she would fit in better in Rogue One. Laura Dern really didn’t feel like she was in a Star Wars movie, even though I liked what they did with her character, and Benecio’s “scoundrel” was kind of like “who cares?” As such, I enjoyed their part of the story less than the Jedi plotlines. Which is too bad, because it drags down some of the momentum, and ties up Finn when he could have been doing cooler things. The casino planet had a little too much “prequel” to it. I also didn’t like the very last shot. I understand its significance, but the shot right before that was perfect place to end it. I was ready to start pumping my fist, expecting the trumpets and end credits to blare, but instead got one more tacked on scene, calling back to the one part in the movie I didn’t like, and really killed the end-movie momentum. Oh well. On the whole, I am very enthusiastic about The Last Jedi, reservations about new characters aside. But I mean hey, maybe they’ll grow on me. I really see this new trilogy as great predecessors to the first three films. They feel like they have taken to story to a natural yet new place, and I am loving it. This had interactions between new and old favourite heroes and villains, lots of truly memorable moments, and another great addition into the Star Wars saga.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Dec 30, 2017 17:59:34 GMT -5
About to watch it now. Thanks for not spoiling outsode of this thread.
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Post by RedVader on Dec 30, 2017 18:08:58 GMT -5
Can Bob Iger fire or force Kennedy out if he is concerned with the films losing the Fan base if Han Solo and Episode 9 take lets say a dip lets say it makes 275-330 million domestic and 900 million globally.
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1godzillafan
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Post by 1godzillafan on Dec 30, 2017 18:53:29 GMT -5
About to watch it now. Thanks for not spoiling outsode of this thread. Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's father.
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