daniel
Producer
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,072
Likes: 245
Location:
Last Online Mar 13, 2022 22:49:30 GMT -5
|
Post by daniel on Feb 24, 2015 19:14:11 GMT -5
r/tublerinaction has found a way to be pissed at Patricia Arquette. The mental gymnastics required to be angry at someone giving a shoutout to the same thing you support is just insane. Essentially their logic boils down to "shut your white ass up". The worst part of it is that she spoke out on one issue, and the response was "oh my god, she marginalized all the OTHER issues!" Just .... I can't even.
|
|
Dracula
CS! Gold
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 26,103
Likes: 5,731
Location:
Last Online Nov 24, 2024 3:47:04 GMT -5
|
Post by Dracula on Feb 24, 2015 19:23:30 GMT -5
In the old days, when tickets didn't cost $12 and there was no Internet and video games were "for kids", smaller movies actually made money. The Godfather was a box office sensation. Rain Man was a box office sensation. Forrest Gump was a box office sensation. In the old days, making money wasn't exclusive to blockbusters like Star Wars and Batman. None of those were "smaller movies." The Godfather was a seven million dollar movie (which is only four million less than Star Wars) and was based on a best seller, Forrest Gump cost just slightly less than American Sniper without even adjusting for inflation, and while Rain Man is slightly lower budgeted than some Hollywood studio films it had two major celebrities in it (in an era before these kind of stars were in indies) and still cost more than Whiplash, Boyhood, Birdman, Selma, and The Theory of Everything without even adjusting for inflation.
|
|
Neverending
CS! Platinum
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,777
Likes: 8,648
Location:
Last Online Nov 23, 2024 20:24:15 GMT -5
|
Post by Neverending on Feb 24, 2015 23:45:16 GMT -5
None of those were "smaller movies." Are you gonna put The Godfather in the same category as The Poseidon Adventure? Are you gonna put Rain Man in the same category as Die Hard? Are you gonna put Forrest Gump in the same category as True Lies? It's true that these movies weren't "cheap" to produce, but they also weren't intended to be blockbusters. When The Godfather was made, the only famous actor in the cast was Marlon Brando, and he was considered a has-been at that point. No one at Paramount thought to themselves, "this is gonna be the biggest moneymaker of 1972." They released the movie in March. That should tell you their box office expectation.
|
|
FShuttari
CS! Bronze
Join Date: Jan 2005
SPIDEY do! What SPIDEY DOES!
Posts: 14,031
Likes: 225
Location:
Last Online Nov 18, 2024 14:51:59 GMT -5
|
Post by FShuttari on Feb 25, 2015 0:41:15 GMT -5
Your also forgetting, Gladiator, Titanic, Return of the King.
It's not like blockbusters don't have a chance...
|
|
Neverending
CS! Platinum
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,777
Likes: 8,648
Location:
Last Online Nov 23, 2024 20:24:15 GMT -5
|
Post by Neverending on Feb 25, 2015 0:51:40 GMT -5
It's not like blockbusters don't have a chance... You're missing the point. As always. And, Return of the King was the last blockbuster to win. That was 11 years ago.
|
|
Neverending
CS! Platinum
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,777
Likes: 8,648
Location:
Last Online Nov 23, 2024 20:24:15 GMT -5
|
Post by Neverending on Feb 25, 2015 5:23:26 GMT -5
I'm going to argue with Dracula while he sleeps. Like sshuttari pointed out, in the 21st century, there has only been two blockbusters to win Best Picture: Gladiator and Return of the King. Now let's look at the 20th century. In the 1990's, there was four box office hits to win Best Picture: Dances with Wolves, The Silence of the Lambs, Forrest Gump, and of course, Titantic. In the 1980's, believe it or not, almost every Best Picture winner was a box office success. Driving Miss Daisy ranked 8th for 1989. Rain Man was the highest grossing movie of 1988. Platoon ranked 3rd for 1986. Out of Africa ranked 5th for 1985. Amadeus missed the Top 10 and ranked 12th for 1984. Terms of Endearment was the 2nd highest grossing movie of 1983, behind a Star Wars movie. Gandhi, like Amadeus, missed the Top 10 and ranked 12th for 1982. Chariots of Fire ranked 7th for 1981. And, Ordinary People ranked 11th for 1980. So basically, The Last Emperor is the only Best Picture winner from the 1980's that wasn't a box office hit. Hilarious! In the 1970's, every Best Picture winner ranked in the Top 10 box office for their respective year. Although, before home media, movies remained in theaters until the print wore out. Jaws, which was a Best Picture nominee, was released in June of 1975 and in Christmas it was still in theaters. So we're comparing apples and oranges here. In the 1960's, every Best Picture winner ranked in the Top 10 box office for their respective year, except for In the Heat of the Night. But that's because two other Sidney Poitier movies, Guess Who's Coming to Dinner and To Sir, with Love ranked in the Top 10 and there wasn't room for a third Poitier movie. 1967 was a very competitive year. In the 1950's, every Best Picture winner ranked in the Top 10 box office for their respective year, except for On the Waterfront and Marty. In the 1940's, every Best Picture winner ranked in the Top 10 box office for their respective year, except for The Lost Weekend and Hamlet. In the 1930's, every Best Picture winner ranked in the Top 10 box office for their respective year, except for Cavalcade.Wings was a blockbuster for 1927. The Broadway Melody did okay in 1929.
|
|
Dracula
CS! Gold
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 26,103
Likes: 5,731
Location:
Last Online Nov 24, 2024 3:47:04 GMT -5
|
Post by Dracula on Feb 25, 2015 7:10:38 GMT -5
I'm going to argue with Dracula while he sleeps. Like sshuttari pointed out, in the 21st century, there has only been two blockbusters to win Best Picture: Gladiator and Return of the King. Now let's look at the 20th century. In the 1990's, there was four box office hits to win Best Picture: Dances with Wolves, The Silence of the Lambs, Forrest Gump, and of course, Titantic. In the 1980's, believe it or not, almost every Best Picture winner was a box office success. Driving Miss Daisy ranked 8th for 1989. Rain Man was the highest grossing movie of 1988. Platoon ranked 3rd for 1986. Out of Africa ranked 5th for 1985. Amadeus missed the Top 10 and ranked 12th for 1984. Terms of Endearment was the 2nd highest grossing movie of 1983, behind a Star Wars movie. Gandhi, like Amadeus, missed the Top 10 and ranked 12th for 1982. Chariots of Fire ranked 7th for 1981. And, Ordinary People ranked 11th for 1980. So basically, The Last Emperor is the only Best Picture winner from the 1980's that wasn't a box office hit. Hilarious! In the 1970's, every Best Picture winner ranked in the Top 10 box office for their respective year. Although, before home media, movies remained in theaters until the print wore out. Jaws, which was a Best Picture nominee, was released in June of 1975 and in Christmas it was still in theaters. So we're comparing apples and oranges here. In the 1960's, every Best Picture winner ranked in the Top 10 box office for their respective year, except for In the Heat of the Night. But that's because two other Sidney Poitier movies, Guess Who's Coming to Dinner and To Sir, with Love ranked in the Top 10 and there wasn't room for a third Poitier movie. 1967 was a very competitive year. In the 1950's, every Best Picture winner ranked in the Top 10 box office for their respective year, except for On the Waterfront and Marty. In the 1940's, every Best Picture winner ranked in the Top 10 box office for their respective year, except for The Lost Weekend and Hamlet. In the 1930's, every Best Picture winner ranked in the Top 10 box office for their respective year, except for Cavalcade.Wings was a blockbuster for 1927. The Broadway Melody did okay in 1929. Indie movies as we know them barely existed before the 80s and didn't really take off until the 90s so the Oscars were basically divied up between the main studios. Also, multiplexes didn't exist so people generally didn't have as much of an option as to what they had to watch. So talking about these results from the 50s is kind of asinine. Beyond that the supposed box office inviability of the 2000s is heavily dependent on what your definition of "blockbuster" is. You're right that the best picture winner often hasn't been in the top ten of their respective years recently but a lot of them have held their own. A Beautiful Mind was 11th in its year, Chicago was 10th, Million Dollar Baby 24th, The Departed was 15th, Slumdog was 16th, The Kings Speech was 18th, etc. Even something like Argo, which ranked 22nd still made well over $100 million dollars. Additionally, a lot of the previous winners were released late and were able to sell tickets after they'd already won BP, today most of those sales are done on home video. Either way, these are not "small" movies, they were big hits. And if they havn't been ranking higher it probably says less about the eliteism of the academy (whose taste has remained largely the same over the last 80 years) than it does about the increasing juvinilization of the top tens.
|
|
Neverending
CS! Platinum
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,777
Likes: 8,648
Location:
Last Online Nov 23, 2024 20:24:15 GMT -5
|
Post by Neverending on Feb 25, 2015 8:31:55 GMT -5
definition of "blockbuster" The definition of blockbuster has always been the same. It's inflation that changes the numbers. Grossing $100 million is no longer considered blockbuster territory. Look at the Top 10 for 2014. Big Hero 6 is at #10 with $220 million. You don't see $100 million until the 33rd spot, which is Edge of Tomorrow, a movie that was considered a box office disappointment. By contrast, Top Gun, another Tom Cruise movie, was #1 in 1986 with $176 million. Ferris Bueller was #10 with $70 million. Mainstream movies have always been around. Wings, the first Oscar winner for Best Picture, was an action movie and a blockbuster in its day. What's different now is that "smaller movies" don't have the opportunity to make blockbuster money. Look at Rain Man, another Tom Cruise movie. It was #1 in 1988. Can you imagine a movie like Rain Man being the top grosser in 2015? Of course not. And that's why studios push for "smaller movies" to win awards. It's their way to attract attention to these movies and hopefully encourage people to rent them. Birdman only made $37 million at the box office, but it'll double that at the iTunes store just for having Best Picture next to the title. Christopher Nolan's Interstellar doesn't need a Best Picture award to attract attention. David Fincher's Gone Girl doesn't need a Best Picture award to attract attention. But Birdman does. That's the reality of the Oscars these days. It's not about honoring the best. It's about selling alternative movies to the mainstream.
|
|
FShuttari
CS! Bronze
Join Date: Jan 2005
SPIDEY do! What SPIDEY DOES!
Posts: 14,031
Likes: 225
Location:
Last Online Nov 18, 2024 14:51:59 GMT -5
|
Post by FShuttari on Feb 25, 2015 14:32:07 GMT -5
Thats true, I don't see how Birdman is a better film than Interstellar or Captain America.
I would say the Academy has become boring... More than anything else
|
|
SnoBorderZero
CS! Silver
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 17,624
Likes: 3,182
Location:
Last Online Nov 23, 2024 23:30:05 GMT -5
|
Post by SnoBorderZero on Feb 25, 2015 14:49:10 GMT -5
I don't buy that the Academy is trying to sell these company's films for them, why would they care about that? "Birdman" and "Boyhood" were CLEARLY the best films of the year from both a critical standpoint and word of mouth from viewers who actually saw the films. If any other film had won Best Picture it would've been total bullshit and I'd be bitching about it forever. There are some years where bigger budgeted films have been overlooked, I don't think anyone would argue that "Slumdog Millionaire" is a better film than "The Dark Knight", but there's not some hidden agenda to trump the big fish. "12 Years a Slave" was CLEARLY the best film of 2013, to me it doesn't matter if the film is a blockbuster or an indie flick, if it's the best movie then it should win. "Lawrence of Arabia" is a 10/10, so is "On the Waterfront", both for completely different reasons. The Academy fluctuates its picks over the years, yes, I mean the '90s were all wide release, well publicized and viewed films, especially in comparison to recent choices. But a hidden agenda? No, no, no. They're not smart enough to concoct that. I doubt the Transformers audience will suddenly go "Oh wow, that Birdman flick won, I should see it!" Crappy people like crappy things. You can shove good food in their face all you want but they'll pick McDonalds each time.
|
|
FShuttari
CS! Bronze
Join Date: Jan 2005
SPIDEY do! What SPIDEY DOES!
Posts: 14,031
Likes: 225
Location:
Last Online Nov 18, 2024 14:51:59 GMT -5
|
Post by FShuttari on Feb 25, 2015 15:09:17 GMT -5
Birdman is not a bad movie by any means. I just don't believe it's a better film than something like "Dawn of the Planet of the Apes" or "Interstellar"
I disagree with Academy and it's choices, hell "Boyhood" is a more ground breaking film and should have clearly won.
What about "Whiplash?" It has a strong presence and it gave more respect to the ideology of music and jazz.
I just don't understand the Academy and it's choices sometimes...
|
|
SnoBorderZero
CS! Silver
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 17,624
Likes: 3,182
Location:
Last Online Nov 23, 2024 23:30:05 GMT -5
|
Post by SnoBorderZero on Feb 25, 2015 15:41:33 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm not saying there's a blueprint that the Academy follows or that they make sense with their selections, they screw up a lot. And not in the sense of "oh well we can only nominate so many so we had to cut out these ones" but where they just blatantly get it wrong. I mean, "The Boxtrolls" got nominated over "The Lego Movie", what the hell is that? That's just mind-boggling and it's just one example. Hell, even the last Harry Potter film should've garnered a nomination for Best Picture, it was one of the best reviewed films of the year. I don't think it's an agenda, I think they're just completely out of touch and have no clue what they're doing. The fact that a piece of shit like "The Blind Side" got nominated for Best Picture proves just that.
|
|
Neverending
CS! Platinum
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,777
Likes: 8,648
Location:
Last Online Nov 23, 2024 20:24:15 GMT -5
|
Post by Neverending on Feb 25, 2015 15:57:54 GMT -5
I don't buy that the Academy is trying to sell these company's films for them. The Academy Awards is made up of people who work in the industry. It's Hollywood giving awards to themselves. That's why there has always been questionable decisions in the Oscars, Yes and no. Birdman and Boyhood were definitely among the most praised of 2014, but so were Gone Girl and Nightcrawler. Even Interstellar has its fans. I don't think it's as clear cut as you make it out to seem.
|
|
SnoBorderZero
CS! Silver
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 17,624
Likes: 3,182
Location:
Last Online Nov 23, 2024 23:30:05 GMT -5
|
Post by SnoBorderZero on Feb 25, 2015 16:32:20 GMT -5
It was very clear cut. I enjoyed both "Gone Girl" and "Nightcrawler" tremendously and thought they absolutely should've garnered nominations, but they aren't on the level of "Birdman" or "Boyhood". There are very good movies, and then are great movies that we'll see on Best Of lists forever. The Big B's are innovative, incredibly unique films that aren't like anything we've seen before. That alone places them on a higher pedestal.
|
|
Neverending
CS! Platinum
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,777
Likes: 8,648
Location:
Last Online Nov 23, 2024 20:24:15 GMT -5
|
Post by Neverending on Feb 25, 2015 17:58:42 GMT -5
It was very clear cut. I enjoyed both "Gone Girl" and "Nightcrawler" tremendously and thought they absolutely should've garnered nominations, but they aren't on the level of "Birdman" or "Boyhood". There are very good movies, and then are great movies that we'll see on Best Of lists forever. The Big B's are innovative, incredibly unique films that aren't like anything we've seen before. That alone places them on a higher pedestal. What's innovative about Birdman? It's not the first movie about actors. It's not the first movie to critique Hollywood. It's not the first movie to be done in "one shot". And it's not new territory for Michael Keaton. Watch Clean and Sober. He played a yuppie drug addict and delivered a very similar performance. Or even Ron Howard's The Paper where he's an editor of a New York newspaper fighting for control against Glenn Close. And Boyhood has already been criticized for being gimmicky and people like Seakazoo and Justin have said that the subject matter is stupid. By contrast... Gone Girl penetrated the culture. Nightcrawler has been widely praised for its depiction of today's social issues. Interstellar is still being discussed by scientists and the media because of the drought. You live in California, man. Interstellar is your reality. So like I said, it's not as clear cut as you think.
|
|
Ramplate
CS! Platinum
Join Date: Apr 2005
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Hamster
Posts: 30,425
Likes: 493
Location:
Last Online Oct 13, 2020 13:56:48 GMT -5
|
Post by Ramplate on Feb 25, 2015 18:08:43 GMT -5
Birdman had some really fine acting, but it wasn't a great story from what I watched - admittedly I did not watch it all the way though because it really did not hold my interest
|
|
SnoBorderZero
CS! Silver
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 17,624
Likes: 3,182
Location:
Last Online Nov 23, 2024 23:30:05 GMT -5
|
Post by SnoBorderZero on Feb 25, 2015 18:13:30 GMT -5
I mean we can easily reduce any film to this or that, I don't agree that "Boyhood" is gimmicky at all and I don't think that assessing "Birdman" in as simplistic a way as you did is fair either. In 30 years, they won't be talking about "Gone Girl" or "Nightcrawler" other than saying they were very good, but people will continue to watch "Boyhood" and "Birdman" for many years. This was a two horse race all the way, the Academy was only seriously considering those two for Best Picture and everything else was just there. And like I said, I highly enjoyed all of the movies you mentioned, including "Interstellar". If you throw in "The Grand Budapest Hotel", then you have my top 6 films of the year right there. But as much as I enjoyed those films, I knew when I was watching "Birdman" and "Boyhood" that these were on a different level, that these films were great and would be celebrated for a long time.
And obviously "Birdman" didn't invent the tracking shot, but name a film with more fluid cinematography made in the last 20 years. "Children of Men" comes close, but even a great film like that doesn't match up shot for shot with what Inarritu accomplished for the whole running time.
|
|
Neverending
CS! Platinum
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,777
Likes: 8,648
Location:
Last Online Nov 23, 2024 20:24:15 GMT -5
|
Post by Neverending on Feb 25, 2015 18:14:59 GMT -5
Name a film with more fluid cinematography made in the last 20 years. Gravity.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
Location:
Last Online Nov 24, 2024 6:47:05 GMT -5
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 18:17:32 GMT -5
Birdman is not a bad movie by any means. I just don't believe it's a better film than something like "Dawn of the Planet of the Apes" or "Interstellar" I disagree with Academy and it's choices, hell "Boyhood" is a more ground breaking film and should have clearly won. What about "Whiplash?" It has a strong presence and it gave more respect to the ideology of music and jazz. I just don't understand the Academy and it's choices sometimes... Why? Because it was filmed over many years?
|
|
Neverending
CS! Platinum
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,777
Likes: 8,648
Location:
Last Online Nov 23, 2024 20:24:15 GMT -5
|
Post by Neverending on Feb 25, 2015 18:18:52 GMT -5
Why? Because it was filmed over many years? Harry Potter was filmed over many years. Where's its Oscar?
|
|
Ramplate
CS! Platinum
Join Date: Apr 2005
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Hamster
Posts: 30,425
Likes: 493
Location:
Last Online Oct 13, 2020 13:56:48 GMT -5
|
Post by Ramplate on Feb 25, 2015 18:19:17 GMT -5
I think out of all of them Budapest was quite an achievement
|
|
SnoBorderZero
CS! Silver
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 17,624
Likes: 3,182
Location:
Last Online Nov 23, 2024 23:30:05 GMT -5
|
Post by SnoBorderZero on Feb 25, 2015 18:20:04 GMT -5
Great cinematography in "Gravity". As good? Not in my opinion, but Alfonso is as much a master behind the camera as Alejandro is.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
Location:
Last Online Nov 24, 2024 6:47:05 GMT -5
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 18:25:19 GMT -5
I liked Birdman a lot because the approach was different. It didn't feel as contrived or as stilted as his other films. Alejandro takes himself pretty seriously for whatever reason and it was starting to get irritating. 21 Grams, Babel, and Biutiful were all almost comically grim and lifelessly morose.
|
|
Neverending
CS! Platinum
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,777
Likes: 8,648
Location:
Last Online Nov 23, 2024 20:24:15 GMT -5
|
Post by Neverending on Feb 25, 2015 18:30:31 GMT -5
I liked Birdman a lot because the approach was different. It didn't feel as contrived or as stilted as his other films. Alejandro takes himself pretty seriously for whatever reason and it was starting to get irritating. 21 Grams, Babel, and Biutiful were all almost comically grim and lifelessly morose. I didn't watch Biutiful, but I agree about 21 Grams and Babel. Wait! Wasn't Sean Penn in 21 Grams? That explains a lot.
|
|
SnoBorderZero
CS! Silver
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 17,624
Likes: 3,182
Location:
Last Online Nov 23, 2024 23:30:05 GMT -5
|
Post by SnoBorderZero on Feb 25, 2015 18:33:41 GMT -5
I liked Birdman a lot because the approach was different. It didn't feel as contrived or as stilted as his other films. Alejandro takes himself pretty seriously for whatever reason and it was starting to get irritating. 21 Grams, Babel, and Biutiful were all almost comically grim and lifelessly morose. I wrote something very similar to this in my review, I couldn't agree more. I love dark, grim films as much as the next guy, but man did "Birdman" pulse with an energy that his previous work lacked. It was still a grim film in many respects, but the high energy has you laughing at Keaton's pain and it's just terrific.
|
|