Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Dec 10, 2016 11:57:56 GMT -5
The Founder
I had been looking forward to this movie for a long time. I'm a huge Michael Keaton fan and am greatly enjoying this new Keaton renaissance that we've been given. When I first saw a trailer for this movie I thought that it looked a little Oscar-baitey but might be a nice vehicle for Keaton to display his more sinister chops and if he gets some Oscar recognition, hey that's cool too. After watching The Founder I was happy in the sense that I got what I was hoping for from Keaton's performance and character. On the other hand the movie comes up short in many other respects.
As you can tell based on the trailer, The Founder is about Ray Kroc, a milkshake machine salesman/overall get-rich-quick schemester who's down on his luck and looking for that one big idea. After getting the door slammed in his face by many of those annoying, dirty, slow drive-in burger stands in the midwest he suddenly gets a call that a restaurant in California needs to buy some immediately. Not just one, a whole slew of them. He drives out to California to find the McDonald brothers, Dick (Nick Offerman) and Mac (John Carroll Lynch whom I always enjoy in everything he does). The brother show Ray their super-efficient, super-fast method of getting food out to their customers in a matter of seconds which Ray immediately recognizes as the keys to the kingdom. The brothers reluctantly allow Ray to take the lead in expanding the McDonald's brand across America which, as you may have guessed, results in a cash and power hungry Ray forcing the brothers to relinquish control while Ray establishes himself as the 'founder' of the McDonald's corporation.
As stated, The Founder is a vehicle for Keaton through and through. Unfortunately there's so much time spent on his character and those of the McDonald brothers that everything else is put on the backburner. Poor Laura Dern stars as Ethel Kroc, Ray's wife who isn't really given much to do other than predictably be sacrificed on the altar of success to show how Ray is obsessed with his own ego. Other characters such as BJ Novak are shoehorned in to help propel the story and are quickly dropped once their role in the grand scheme of things is complete. Nothing is really fleshed out and many characters and scenes seem forced into the script without much substance. On the other hand though, I don't think it's something that the general audience is going to pick up too much. They'll be more focused on Keaton and McDonald's, the brand that's the real supporting character in this movie. There are some pretty funny shots of people slowly taking a bite into their savory, delicious cheeseburger whose irony garnered some laughs from the audience. Other parts feel like a straight-out advertisement for McDonald's however the brand quickly becomes associated with the slimy handlings of Kroc. Keaton certainly does well with his character as the movie concludes showing who Kroc really is; an insecure man who made his bones stealing for a living, stealing ideas, wives, even speeches. He's a man who made his living off the hard work of other people, at least according to the movie. I can see Keaton picking up an Oscar nod for this but it's not really a role or a movie that people will talk about in years to come. Still, it's a fun and enjoyable movie with strong performances from the people who are given any material to work with.
B+ so says Doomsday
On a side note, as I was walking out of the theater and went past the ticket lines I saw Nick Offerman on his way in. Weird little coincidence.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Dec 10, 2016 13:00:06 GMT -5
I may have to see this for Drew Carey's brother.
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Feb 18, 2017 20:16:07 GMT -5
I guess it's pointless now to say, "Oh, they can never make a movie about *such and such*..." cause odds are, they can and will. Case in point: The Founder, a film about the creation of the McDonald's chain and the man who turned it into what it is now, Ray Kroc. This is definitely Social Network-lite, as this similarly focuses on the creation of a highly successful business from the point of view of someone who stole the idea as their own and ran with it. The screenplay by Robert Siegel is fairly sharp and fast-paced, as well as entertaining. The subject matter may not be anything terribly important, but it's a story that is pretty interesting once you get to see/hear it, though maybe not as captivating or insightful as The Social Network. Michael Keaton keeps his recent hot streak of engaging performances going as Kroc, who's unapologetically portrayed here, and that's a good thing. Kroc, as well as how he went about things, was quite underhanded and weasel-ish, and neither the film nor Keaton's performance shies away from that fact. Nick Offerman and John Carroll Lynch are both very strong as the McDonalds Brothers, and the section of the film devoted to the creation of the restaurant really is pretty interesting. But while the story may be interesting, it's never really gripping. It's clearly in the same vein as 2010's The Social Network, but John Lee Hancock is no David Fincher, and Robert Siegel is no Aaron Sorkin.
Odds are you'll still find The Founder to be worth your time in the end, but just don't go in expecting anything great.
***/****
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daniel
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Post by daniel on Feb 22, 2017 0:27:07 GMT -5
With that said, yeah, this is kind of like a poor man's Social Network. Entertaining story, and certainly enjoyable, but neither film nor performance will be discussed a couple years from now.
7/10 - good movie
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Post by Neverending on Aug 16, 2019 22:52:19 GMT -5
Finally saw it and thoroughly enjoyed it. Tried to look up how accurate it is, since Doomsday is correct that there’s blatant bullshit, but I don’t think it ultimately matters. What I got out of this movie is a tale about ambition versus content. Calling it “Social Network lite” as PhantomKnight does is rather silly as both movies have different objectives. You have the McDonald Bros who created an innovative business and were content to just have one location in San Bernardino, California. That’s all fine and dandy till Burger King, Taco Bell and KFC come along to riches on your idea. At least Ray Kroc came along and believed in them and set out to expand and maintain (to a reasonable level) their vision. Those dummies should have shut up and cashed the checks. What injustice did Ray Kroc do exactly? Enlighten me, please. Was he an unsavory character? Sure. But which entrepreneur isn’t? This is a guy who took a small burger stand in the middle of nowhere and turned it into the biggest fast food company. And he did it, as Doomsday pointed out, with not the most acclaimed product. |
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Post by Neverending on Aug 16, 2019 23:24:23 GMT -5
McDonald’s was no different than Fuddruckers or Five Guys. Ray Croc had more influence over it than anyone. A plot point in the movie is Ray Kroc wanting to switch from milkshake to powder shake to save costs. So it’s possible that at one point, even under Ray Kroc, McDonalds was more fresh food based. Also, hasn’t processed food become a lot more prominent since the 1950’s. It’s possible that McDonalds was selling entirely different food in its early days. So Doomsday shouldn’t have been so quick to laugh at that montage of people devouring McDonalds cheeseburgers. That food probably tasted different than what’s being served today. |
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Aug 17, 2019 7:18:56 GMT -5
Ray Croc had more influence over it than anyone. A plot point in the movie is Ray Kroc wanting to switch from milkshake to powder shake to save costs. So it’s possible that at one point, even under Ray Kroc, McDonalds was more fresh food based. Also, hasn’t processed food become a lot more prominent since the 1950’s. It’s possible that McDonalds was selling entirely different food in its early days. So Doomsday shouldn’t have been so quick to laugh at that montage of people devouring McDonalds cheeseburgers. That food probably tasted different than what’s being served today. The movie does feature a strangely prominent title card at the end saying they switched back to using real ice cream, which I'm guessing they felt compelled to add for some legal reason. |
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Post by Neverending on Aug 17, 2019 10:26:39 GMT -5
A plot point in the movie is Ray Kroc wanting to switch from milkshake to powder shake to save costs. So it’s possible that at one point, even under Ray Kroc, McDonalds was more fresh food based. Also, hasn’t processed food become a lot more prominent since the 1950’s. It’s possible that McDonalds was selling entirely different food in its early days. So Doomsday shouldn’t have been so quick to laugh at that montage of people devouring McDonalds cheeseburgers. That food probably tasted different than what’s being served today. The movie does feature a strangely prominent title card at the end saying they switched back to using real ice cream, which I'm guessing they felt compelled to add for some legal reason. You might be right. Although, hilariously, McDonalds still isn’t selling the same product. Ray Kroc’s origin is that of a salesman for milkshake mixers. No one at McDonald’s is putting scoops of ice cream into a blender. It comes in a bag that’s hooked up to a dispenser. It goes back to my point that McDonald’s most likely tasted different in the 1950’s. Technology forced them to use more natural ingredients. |
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Aug 17, 2019 10:42:08 GMT -5
Finally saw it and thoroughly enjoyed it. Tried to look up how accurate it is, since Doomsday is correct that there’s blatant bullshit, but I don’t think it ultimately matters. What I got out of this movie is a tale about ambition versus content. Calling it “Social Network lite” as PhantomKnight does is rather silly as both movies have different objectives. You have the McDonald Bros who created an innovative business and were content to just have one location in San Bernardino, California. That’s all fine and dandy till Burger King, Taco Bell and KFC come along to riches on your idea. At least Ray Kroc came along and believed in them and set out to expand and maintain (to a reasonable level) their vision. Those dummies should have shut up and cashed the checks. What injustice did Ray Kroc do exactly? Enlighten me, please. Was he an unsavory character? Sure. But which entrepreneur isn’t? This is a guy who took a small burger stand in the middle of nowhere and turned it into the biggest fast food company. And he did it, as Doomsday pointed out, with not the most acclaimed product. But the McDonald Bros still tried to sue Kroc in a legal battle over ownership of the product, which was a significant plot point of the movie. Hence my comparison. |
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Aug 17, 2019 11:18:10 GMT -5
Finally saw it and thoroughly enjoyed it. Tried to look up how accurate it is, since Doomsday is correct that there’s blatant bullshit, but I don’t think it ultimately matters. What I got out of this movie is a tale about ambition versus content. Calling it “Social Network lite” as PhantomKnight does is rather silly as both movies have different objectives. You have the McDonald Bros who created an innovative business and were content to just have one location in San Bernardino, California. That’s all fine and dandy till Burger King, Taco Bell and KFC come along to riches on your idea. At least Ray Kroc came along and believed in them and set out to expand and maintain (to a reasonable level) their vision. Those dummies should have shut up and cashed the checks. What injustice did Ray Kroc do exactly? Enlighten me, please. Was he an unsavory character? Sure. But which entrepreneur isn’t? This is a guy who took a small burger stand in the middle of nowhere and turned it into the biggest fast food company. And he did it, as Doomsday pointed out, with not the most acclaimed product. But the McDonald Bros still tried to sue Kroc in a legal battle over ownership of the product, which was a significant plot point of the movie. Hence my comparison. That seems to be a fabrication of the movie. Apparently, the McDonald Bros had already been franchising by the time Ray Kroc came along. Kroc’s first McDonald’s is actually the 9th. Kroc creating a “real estate company” is something he did after opening his location. The movie made it seem like it’s something he did down the road after years of struggling, but he did it from the getgo because opening up his location was too expensive and not profitable enough. The real estate scheme worked well enough for Kroc to simply buy McDonald’s. That tug-of-war between the McDonald Bros and Kroc is mostly exaggerated for the movie. |
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Post by PhantomKnight on Aug 17, 2019 12:23:38 GMT -5
Right, but the filmmakers clearly chose the Social Network approach to the story. And by doing that, they invited the comparisons.
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Post by Neverending on Aug 17, 2019 13:25:25 GMT -5
Right, but the filmmakers clearly chose the Social Network approach to the story. And by doing that, they invited the comparisons. Not really. Social Network was heavily centered on the lawsuit and on portraying Mark Zuckerberg as the villain. The Founder doesn’t get to the lawsuit until the very end - actually - there wasn’t even a lawsuit. There was a threat of a lawsuit. And Ray Kroc was portrayed more Bill Gates than Zuckerberg. |
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Post by Dracula on Aug 17, 2019 13:37:58 GMT -5
Right, but the filmmakers clearly chose the Social Network approach to the story. And by doing that, they invited the comparisons. Not really. Social Network was heavily centered on the lawsuit and on portraying Mark Zuckerberg as the villain. The Founder doesn’t get to the lawsuit until the very end - actually - there wasn’t even a lawsuit. There was a threat of a lawsuit. And Ray Kroc was portrayed more Bill Gates than Zuckerberg. He did not say that they were scene for scene remakes. |
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Post by Neverending on Aug 17, 2019 15:45:27 GMT -5
Not really. Social Network was heavily centered on the lawsuit and on portraying Mark Zuckerberg as the villain. The Founder doesn’t get to the lawsuit until the very end - actually - there wasn’t even a lawsuit. There was a threat of a lawsuit. And Ray Kroc was portrayed more Bill Gates than Zuckerberg. He did not say that they were scene for scene remakes. But there was that scene where Patrick Wilson fed chicken to a chicken. |
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Aug 19, 2019 18:40:47 GMT -5
The Founder may have taken longer than The Social Network to get to the lawsuit, but the ultimate intent of both movies definitely felt the same: to center the story around the person who took an idea out from under the noses of the creators and run with it.
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Post by Neverending on Aug 19, 2019 20:08:21 GMT -5
The Founder may have taken longer than The Social Network to get to the lawsuit, but the ultimate intent of both movies definitely felt the same: to center the story around the person who took an idea out from under the noses of the creators and run with it. You’re forgetting the restroom scene in which Ron Swanson says to Michael Keaton, “why didn’t you just steal our idea” and he replied, “because I like the name.” In a world with Burger King, KFC and Taco Bell you can’t portray Ray Kroc as a Mark Zuckerberg type thief because audiences will roll their eyes. Every fast food place ripped off McDonalds. The point of the movie was to show an ambitious businessman versus content businessmen. If it weren’t for Ray Kroc, we’d be discussing Burger King: The Movie right now. |
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Post by Dracula on Aug 19, 2019 20:44:14 GMT -5
The Founder may have taken longer than The Social Network to get to the lawsuit, but the ultimate intent of both movies definitely felt the same: to center the story around the person who took an idea out from under the noses of the creators and run with it. You’re forgetting the restroom scene in which Ron Swanson says to Michael Keaton, “why didn’t you just steal our idea” and he replied, “because I like the name.” In a world with Burger King, KFC and Taco Bell you can’t portray Ray Kroc as a Mark Zuckerberg type thief because audiences will roll their eyes. Every fast food place ripped off McDonalds. The point of the movie was to show an ambitious businessman versus content businessmen. If it weren’t for Ray Kroc, we’d be discussing Burger King: The Movie right now. You are getting lost in the weeds. The two movies are meant to be looks at the dark sides of the creation of famous brands, obviously the specifics of what those dark sides entailed are going to be different but they're ultimately working in the same genre and have the same tone. |
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Post by 1godzillafan on Aug 19, 2019 21:35:56 GMT -5
This is the most riviting debate about McDonald's that I never knew I wanted.
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Aug 20, 2019 14:24:40 GMT -5
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Post by Neverending on Mar 17, 2021 1:52:23 GMT -5
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Post by Neverending on Nov 20, 2022 11:20:02 GMT -5
DoomsdayA plot point in the movie is Ray Kroc wanting to switch from milkshake to powder shake to save costs. The movie does feature a strangely prominent title card at the end saying they switched back to using real ice cream Apparently the powdered milkshake was a fabrication by the filmmakers.
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on Nov 20, 2022 15:12:27 GMT -5
Those bastards.
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