IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Nov 2, 2016 8:06:08 GMT -5
Well I'm always up for a good debate. The Third Man, Touch of Evil, Chinatown, The Maltese Falcon, The Big Sleep, Vertigo, Out of the Past? I'd put all of those well ahead of Rebecca and Zodiac, but I can't complain about the top 3. Zodiac isn't even Fincher's best mystery movie. *Munches on popcorn, sips tea* These aren't what I would consider the best movies, only my personal preferences. I've watched each movie several times while at the same time as much as I admire Maltese Falcon and Vertigo they aren't necessarily my favorite movies nor do I have any strong desire to watch them anytime soon (I was never huge on Vertigo, have at me). I do love Out of the Past though, I haven't seen that movie in years. You just gave me something to do this weekend. That's one of my issues when people make 'lists' especially any 'best of' types. No matter how many movies I see I don't think I could bring myself to say 'this one is the best and it's better than this movie but not as good as that movie.' I'm not overly fond of The Graduate, it's good but would never appear on any favorite movies list. I would feel disingenuous to put it on some list just for the sake of including a popular, well known movie. Then what's the point? I keep mine personal, it makes it more subjective and it's much more enjoyable when you guys come chew me out in these threads. Otherwise it would be boring. 'Oh, Citizen Kane again. Yahoo.' I have seen Maltese Falcon a number of times, but I rewatched it again not too long ago and found a whole new appreciation. If you look at it with the lens of a logic vs. emotion theme, its quite a bit more interesting. Also, I feel the same way about The Graduate. I also agree with your choice of Zodiac, great movie even when you are just thinking about it afterwards. That movie sent me into a wikipedia spiral learning about the case.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Nov 2, 2016 9:45:27 GMT -5
Well I'm always up for a good debate. The Third Man, Touch of Evil, Chinatown, The Maltese Falcon, The Big Sleep, Vertigo, Out of the Past? I'd put all of those well ahead of Rebecca and Zodiac, but I can't complain about the top 3. Zodiac isn't even Fincher's best mystery movie. *Munches on popcorn, sips tea* Correct, Curious Case of Benjamin Button was. The mystery is, why did the people involved think this was a good idea? I always forget that Fincher made that movie. I remember Alien3 and Panic Room, but I always forget that one. And you guys are crazy, The Graduate is a masterpiece.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Nov 2, 2016 10:34:43 GMT -5
The Graduate is pretty awesome.
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Jan 23, 2017 22:41:59 GMT -5
I decided to forego my Top 5 lists for a few personal reasons, mostly having to do with time or lack thereof as well as being unable to choose which ones I wanted to revisit. Instead I felt that I would tackle another filmography, this time of one of cinema's most respected and prolific filmmakers, a director whose work is familiar to me but who also has many, many films that have escaped me. So allow me to get the ball rolling with... Doomsday's Exploration of the Scorsese Filmography Who's That Knocking At My Door? (1967)
View count: First timeMartin Scorsese has always been a strong and vocal supporter of world cinema. He has frequently referenced Jean Luc Goddard and the French New Wave as big influences in his films and many of his films have scenes where they talk about other films. Because he likes films, ya know. Who's That Knocking At My Door? is Scorsese's feature debut, made when he was in his mid-twenties and starring Harvey Keitel who also makes his film debut. It's very much a movie that a new, young filmmaker would create. It's got energy, intensity, quick and jarring cuts that would become one of Scorsese's trademarks, and it has his mom in a cameo role. You can tell that Scorsese had a lot to say and that he really plays into the 'create what you know' angle. There are many shades of things to come in the film and while it's obviously rough around the edges compared to his later (but not too much later) works it's a pretty strong debut especially for a guy getting into films at a time when they were changing so much. The movie features Keitel as JR, a New Yorker who drinks with his buddies and gets into mischief. While on the Long Island ferry he meets 'the girl' of the movie and the two quickly fall in love. When things get serious she tells him she was raped by an ex-boyfriend which puts him over the edge. It's pretty heavy stuff and is Scorsese's attempt to really make something meaningful in his first at-bat. The movie is filled with religious iconography and he has a few scenes that are just characters talking about John Wayne movies, both admitted passions of Scorsese. If he were to make it now I'm sure he would make it a little more subtle, a little more nuanced but as I mentioned before it's very much a debut where the director wants to include as many of his ideas as he can. The movie itself is just okay. The real conflict of the story doesn't rear it's head until about two-thirds of the way through and while it isn't a long film there seems to be a lot of filler and mood-setting when it isn't overly necessary. Thelma Schoonmaker cut the film as she would for many Scorsese movies down the road which would win her several Oscars. The fast edits and 50s/60s soundtrack mixed in would become another Scorsese trademark but even here he shows a fine grasp of it. While not a fantastic film, it's a solid effort from a rookie filmmaker. As stated, Scorsese's style is already on display and he shows a true appreciation for the movies that influenced him. A nice start.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jan 23, 2017 23:31:11 GMT -5
This is the one Scorsese film I have yet to see. I've seen Boxcar Bertha, Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, fucking Kundun, but somehow, this one has escaped me.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Jan 24, 2017 13:06:05 GMT -5
I haven't seen this either, but will be watching it soon along with other Scorsese films I haven't seen.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Jan 24, 2017 13:34:46 GMT -5
It's been a while, but I remember my thoughts being essentially the same as Doomsday's.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Jan 25, 2017 0:00:14 GMT -5
Given your comedy background, I'm really interesting to hear your thoughts on The King of Comedy and After Hours.
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Jan 26, 2017 15:16:57 GMT -5
Given your comedy background, I'm really interesting to hear your thoughts on The King of Comedy and After Hours. I haven't seen After Hours but I'm a big fan of The King of Comedy. I'll be getting to that soon.....
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Jan 26, 2017 16:29:18 GMT -5
And now the continuation of.... Doomsday's Exploration of the Scorsese Filmography Boxcar Bertha (1972)
View count: First timeI'm glad that the poster gives away the ending of the movie. Boxcar Bertha is one of those movies that I dread the most. It's not good, it's not terrible, it's just one of those films that goes along until it ends and becomes a movie that you'll never think of again. It's Scorsese's second movie coming five years after his first and while it might seem natural to give the guy a pass so early in his career it's also noticeable that this is not exactly a 'Scorsese' movie. I credited Who's That Knocking At My Door? with really putting on full display what Scorsese would come to be known for, his quick cuts, moral conflict and religious imagery for example. Boxcar Bertha puts that all to the side (with the exception of the end shot) and the result is a movie that could have been made by just about anyone. It tries to capture a time period and a sort of underdeveloped and unexplored political struggle but barely scratches the surface on any of it. The end product is a movie that's just sort of there, not really bringing anything new or interesting to the table while not having anything to say. Barbara Hershey plays the titular Bertha, a girl whose dad is killed in the opening scene which then has her hitching rides on boxcars through the opening credits. She soon meets Big Bill Shelley (David Carradine before playing a more popular and better written Bill for Quentin Tarantino), a railroad worker who wants to unionize and really stick it to the railroad company. They soon meet a card sharp/con-artist and another friend of her father and the gang soon starts robbing banks and individuals connected with the railroad. In the meantime she has a romance with Bill while the gang tries to avoid the clutches of the authorities. Boxcar Bertha is ultimately a misfire because Scorsese doesn't really seem to use what's at his disposal. Usually if you're producing a period piece that 'period' should typically be a prominent feature, otherwise what's the point? The opening text says it was based on the memoirs of an actual person but there's really no reason this had to be set in the 30s at all. If it weren't for one or two old-timey automobiles it would hardly have been noticeable. And even if it were, who cares? The characters here are paper thin including Bertha. Everyone just seems to wander from one scene to the next with no real direction and little motivation, often times portrayed by acting ranging from bad to cringe-worthy. Deep characters, or even just somewhat developed characters, are the base requirements for making a movie work and when that element is lacking the movie never takes off or holds the interest of an audience. That to me seems to be the weakest link of Boxcar Bertha, a movie that seems to have an idea of what it wants to do but doesn't even really try to get there. Next up, Mean Streets. At least I know it's going to be a step in the right direction...
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Post by Neverending on Jan 26, 2017 16:44:26 GMT -5
To understand Boxcar Bertha you must understand Roger Corman history. At the time, Corman had made movies based on 1930's gangsters (Al Capone, Ma Barker, etc) and wanted to do some more. This isn't a period piece or a political film about unions, it's a gangster movie about railroad robbers.
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Jan 26, 2017 17:54:22 GMT -5
Even then it's not very good.
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Feb 5, 2017 19:22:32 GMT -5
And now the continuation of.... Doomsday's Exploration of the Scorsese Filmography Mean Streets (1973)
View count: Second timeI watched Mean Streets for the first time when I was about 21 or 22. It's scary to think about on a personal level that 10 years have passed since then. It was a summer where I was living at home and working at Best Buy. When I wasn't working I was burning through as many Netflix DVDs as I could. I would watch 2, sometimes 3 in a night, drop them back in the mail the next day then get another batch 2 days later. I watched a lot of movies that summer, Mean Streets being one of them, but looking back I realize that I didn't really appreciate them at the time. It was an instance of watching something and plugging it into your short term memory. In fact it was several instances of that. So when I watched Mean Streets again this past week it really was like watching it for the first time. The first viewing I had watched it, enjoyed it, but didn't really digest it. I was a different person then, someone who had not really wholly embraced film the way I do now. Even though I was watching a ton of movies I felt were mandatory I hadn't quite realized that film was a passion, I still considered it a hobby. When I got back to Mean Streets I remembered general bits here and there, almost like I remembered certain frames rather than actual scenes, but for the most part I couldn't have told you anything about it other than the cast. A lot has happened since my initial viewing. I've watched hundreds of movies, read several books about filmmakers, and Scorsese himself released a number of films and finally won that Academy Award. This time I was able to watch it through a different lens. That isn't to say that Mean Streets is a movie that takes a degree of maturity or age to appreciate it, I just didn't take away as much as I could have at the time I watched it. This go around however I was able to take away much, much more. Typically a story has to hook you in some way. Whether it's a big event, reveal or a specific action there must be a hook so they audience can invest themselves. Mean Streets managed to do that by having the popular oldie Be My Baby play over the credits. We're introduced to the main players in the movie, headed by Charlie (Harvey Keitel). Charlie is a young, wannabe hood who spends time with his secret lover Teresa when he isn't working for his mob boss uncle. He also attempts to take Teresa's cousin Johnny Boy (Robert DeNiro before he was Robert DeNiro) under his wing but Johnny Boy makes that a tough job to do. Both Keitel and DeNiro give us a good glimpse into what they would give us over the course of their careers. I always found Keitel to be rather one note which isn't necessarily a bad thing but I've never bought it when he tries to veer off course like in The Piano for example. Movies like Mean Streets are his bread and butter, playing tough, stoic types that aren't terribly common nowadays. It's interesting to watch DeNiro in one of his earliest roles playing against the type that we're now used to but of course hadn't been established yet. We first see DeNiro as he walks into a bar and Jumpin' Jack Flash plays over his entrance. It's not a terribly creative song to use however it's a great song for the introduction of Johnny Boy and is a perfect example of a contemporary song that really energizes a scene. Again, one of Scorsese's hallmarks. In a lot of ways Mean Streets isn't terribly different than Guess Who's Knocking At My Door? Neither movie has a carefully crafted plot with a beginning-middle-end narrative. If you were to boil down the synopsis of Mean Streets you could argue that it's about Charlie's attempts to make his way through the streets of New York and his interactions with those around him. For the movie itself that's only a brief description. Rather Mean Streets highlights the actions and conflicts between a handful of characters over a short period of time. The ending is a pretty good example in that it's really the end of an event and not the conclusion of the story as a whole. I suppose it's labeled a 'gangster' movie but it just doesn't feel like one. Sure Charlie is trying to make his way in the New York underworld run by his uncle but it's not a gangster movie in the sense that we're used to. Where Mean Streets and Guess Who's Knocking At My Door? diverge is that Mean Streets is a much more polished (although not entirely) product. Where Guess Who's Knocking At My Door? is a movie by a passionate filmmaker who had much to learn, Mean Streets is a movie by the same passionate filmmaker who's honing his craft as quickly as he's finding his voice. I see Mean Streets as more of a continuation of Scorsese's development rather than a major milestone. You could argue the latter in that it's probably the first movie that completely captures Scorsese's style and it's also the first DeNiro/Scorsese pairing however I know that the likes of Taxi Driver and Raging Bull are right around the corner. Still, Mean Streets is a movie that stands on its own and is still a great watch more than 40 years on.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Feb 6, 2017 0:14:53 GMT -5
LOL.
You have Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore and New York New York on the way. Mean Streets is the 2nd best movie he did in the 70's. If you think Mean Streets is mediocre then brace yourself for disappointment. King of Comedy is ahead of its time, but not sure it's actually a good movie. Last Temptation is no Passion of the Christ. Age of Innocence and Kundun are garbage. Bringing Out The Dead is Taxi Driver with Nick Cage. Then there's the Leo DiCaprio movies.
If you're looking for Classic Scorsese it's Mean Street, Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, the ridiculously underrated After Hours, Goodfellas, Cape Fear and Casino. Mean Street is definitely the weakest of the bunch, but it's better that a lot of stuff you'll be watching.
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Feb 17, 2017 12:46:02 GMT -5
And now the continuation of.... Doomsday's Exploration of the Scorsese Filmography Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore (1974)
View count: Second timeMartin Scorsese's follow-up to Mean Streets is a character-driven, part road trip/part self-discovery movie. Like his previous efforts it's a movie that's grounded in its characters whose journeys make up the real narrative. Unlike his previous films that dealt with hoods, criminals and their dealings, Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore profiles a widow and her irritating son as they drive from New Mexico to California. It's certainly a departure from just about any movie Scorsese had made before or would subsequently direct. It's for the most part light-hearted, it's funny at times and has pretty likable characters. Ellen Burstyn received an Oscar for her portrayal of Alice Hyatt, a mid-thirties woman with an eleven year old son as she leaves her home in New Mexico in search of a better life in Monterey. After her uncaring and indifferent husband is killed in a car accident she sells her stuff, takes what little money she has and hits the road with son Tommy with hopes of rekindling her career as a singer. She finds employment where she can and meets men who she thinks might be able to give her what she wants until she reaches her final destination and learns that happiness and contentment doesn't always mean reaching the end goal. At first glance Alice herself seems like someone who's doing what she needs to do to get by and fulfill her responsibility to her son. That isn't wrong however Alice is a deeper character than a woman who's just the mom of the year. She's reaching toward a goal, a lifestyle that seems within reach but never really is. She dreams of being a singer like she was 'in the old days' when she was happy and now wants to go back to that lifestyle. Most of us can think back to years past and remember some great times knowing that it would be impossible to try to reconstruct. Alice isn't the young singer she thought she was, she's thirty five with a young, bratty son she needs to support. Alice suffers from the horrible curse of wanting to go back to where she came from but never can no matter how hard she tries. As I stated above Ellen Burnstyn won an Oscar for this film, the first acting Oscar given to a performer in a Scorsese movie. Diane Ladd also received an Oscar nomination for being a sassy waitress who helps introduce Alice to David (Kris Kristofferson), a rancher who frequents their cafe. David sees kindness in Alice and Alice sees security in David who also becomes a strong male figure for Tommy. David personifies the dilemma that Alice has to face, security vs. chasing a future that might never come. After thinking about Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore and that small theme that could be glossed over it started to become more than just a road trip, finding yourself kind of movie. It's a movie about a woman being forced to make life changing and selfless decisions when she wants everything figured out. It's a pretty strong and equally relatable message.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Feb 17, 2017 13:54:48 GMT -5
Good film that's all too easy to overlook.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Feb 17, 2017 14:31:09 GMT -5
Good film that's all too easy to overlook. That's because they turned it into a TV show that lasted 9 years and 200 episodes. It's like M*A*S*H. We all know there's a movie but everyone remembers the TV show.
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Feb 17, 2017 14:40:32 GMT -5
Yeah I had no idea there was even a show until I Wikipedia'd the movie after I finished. And 200 episodes??
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Post by Neverending on Feb 17, 2017 14:47:49 GMT -5
Yeah I had no idea there was even a show until I Wikipedia'd the movie after I finished. And 200 episodes?? Yeah... it was like Mama's Family. A show that survived cause rednecks watched it.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Feb 21, 2017 19:53:33 GMT -5
Just watched Who's That Knocking at My Door last night. I was hard pressed on really liking it until the abrupt ending and the fact that the actual plot went absolutely nowhere, so I had to be a bit tougher on it. They should've introduced the girl's reveal at the end of the first act instead of when the movie was 75% over. Nonetheless, the film works as a great showcase for Scorsese's editing. It's a unique blend of French New Wave, Italian Neorealism, and American exploitation, and surprisingly it all blends together very well. The final sequence of rock music overlaying religious icons in the church was nice, I saw Scorsese bringing up several interesting points here about Kietel's character's hypocrisy and old-fashioned religious ideals having little impact on this rock-n-roll world, but again after this the movie just ends. As Doomsday noted, this is a bit disappointing because while the Neorealist-esque sequences of Kietel and his pals goofing around are fun, they do little for the plot, and the plot is where Scorsese has the most to work with in terms of tackling serious issues and themes. The lighting is also all over the place and doesn't have any style. Everything is just blandly hard lit with toppers or just very sourced and fake. But hey, this guy made Taxi Driver 9 years later, so who the hell cares.
6/10, but the film has a lot of merits, just let down by a lackluster story.
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Post by Neverending on Feb 21, 2017 21:06:32 GMT -5
But hey, this guy made Taxi Driver 9 years later. Scorsese used to be the poor man's Brian de Palma.
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Feb 28, 2017 17:54:18 GMT -5
And now the continuation of.... Doomsday's Exploration of the Scorsese Filmography Taxi Driver (1976)
View count: Several timesWhere to even begin with Taxi Driver? Do you start with the performances? The violence? How anyone even came up with a movie about an insomniac cab driver who tries to kill a Presidential candidate before becoming a hero by rescuing an underage prostitute from her pimp? Its layers are deep and wide and any element of the film is ripe for dissection and discussion. Taxi Driver is a movie that stands apart and on its own because frankly there aren't many movies that are terribly similar to it. Although released in in the later half of the 1970s is stands out today as a prime example of the new American cinema from one of the world's premiere filmmakers and featuring some of the most memorable and accomplished actors in Hollywood history. Taxi Driver is and always has been my favorite Martin Scorsese movie. Watching Travis' downward spiral while wallowing in a cesspool of 'filth' is essentially the main story of the movie but what you're doing is watching Travis interact. He's a guy who doesn't belong but is trying unsuccessfully to do so, like fitting the round peg into the square hole. Throughout the movie he's in a constant state of rejection. One of the opening scenes has Travis at a porno theater. When he attempts to small-talk the woman at the concession stand she threatens to call the manager, a swing that is rectified with Travis buying an absurd amount of candy (watch the scene again if you don't remember). We're quickly brought to Betsy, a staffer on a campaign for Presidential hopeful Senator Palentine. After a date gone wrong Travis finds himself alone again with only his cab and the streets that he despises. Another attempt to assuage his isolation is by trying to take Iris, a child prostitute, under his wing. Even his meet ups with fellow cabbies are usually spend with Travis listening and staring into empty space. I think that people will take different things from Travis' character and interpret his arc differently. After having seen this again I felt a little more sympathy for Travis which I think was Scorsese's original purpose. Is he still a psychopath? Yes. Is he the bad guy of the film? Not technically however he defines hero and anti-hero alike. You root for him while feeling uneasy and uncomfortable all at the same time. In several ways Scorsese eschews his standard trademarks. The quick edits and cuts, the catchy soundtrack and energetic characters that are almost caricatures are traded in for slow panning shots and a moody and atmospheric score by Bernard Hermann. It feels as though Scorsese wants you to move slowly through this movie as Travis travels down that road to its conclusion. It's also the first movie where I think the acting is pretty consistent down the board. Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore had some very strong turns but Taxi Driver takes it to another level. His first few films had some cringe-worthy supporting roles but Taxi Driver doesn't have those weak links that even the best directors sometimes overlook. Taxi Driver came out fairly soon after DeNiro won a Best Supporting Actor for The Godfather Part II but I think many people see Taxi Driver and Raging Bull as his two most iconic performances. Sure DeNiro is fun to joke about nowadays as he almost seems to intentionally seek out the worst films to star in but his performance here in my opinion is one of the best performances by any actor on film. It elicits such a broad range of emotions that it's hard to think of another performance that's even comparable to it. It's been almost 30 years since the last time the guy won an Academy Award. At almost 74 he may or may not have a lot of memorable roles left in him although he seems to go to great lengths to find the worst ones available but here's hoping that he's not completely on the downhill. Taxi Driver is one of those movies that I appreciate more with each viewing. It's a movie that for me really draws the line between the cinema of old and the movies that really helped usher in films with that utilize realism, violence and taboo themes. I had always considered it to be Scorsese's master work, the one that really set him apart from other filmmakers. I think most people would say Goodfellas and while I appreciate that film based on its own merits I don't think anyone would have been able to make Taxi Driver quite like Scorsese could. Certainly a monument of one of the most important decades in cinema.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Feb 28, 2017 21:20:30 GMT -5
Great review of what I've long considered my favourite film. I like that you pointed out the creativity and general strangeness of the story. The plot plays out so simply and is so rooted in Travis' character that the story doesn't really feel all that wild even though it is.
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Post by Neverending on Feb 28, 2017 23:36:58 GMT -5
I was gonna re-watch Taxi Driver before Oscar weekend (to honor the 40th anniversary) but didn't get around to it.
Not sure what I consider my favorite Scorsese movie. I guess, objectively, Taxi Driver is the best but I think After Hours, Cape Fear and Casino are more entertaining.
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Feb 28, 2017 23:57:47 GMT -5
After Hours is one of the Scorsese's I haven't seen. That list is longer than I would have thought.
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