Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Feb 7, 2019 16:29:52 GMT -5
If you think that’s a lot then let’s wait and see how much more the Green New ‘Deal’ is going to be.
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Ramplate
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Post by Ramplate on Feb 7, 2019 17:35:59 GMT -5
AOC wasn't named to the environmental panel of the House so there's that.
The High tax on the rich most Democrats are speaking about is their fair share - and they're still going to be filty rich after paying it - they should pay in to the system that allowed them to get so rich in the first place, should they not?
In any case, the tax would be a graduated tax (i.e. taxed at different percentages for different levels of wealth) - the steepest of which would only be applied to the highest amount of their income - so it won't be a flat high tax to EVERYTHING. The idea is not to make them pay through the nose, but only their fair share.
Once a true single payer healthcare system is implemented, costs to everyone should come way down - that was part of the problem with the ACA - some Republican governors were allowed to step outside the system everyone was supposed to participate in - that drove up some of the costs.
The USA is the ONLY major industrialized country that doesn't have a socialized healthcare system.
People in this country seem to be afraid of the word Socialist - they point to Venezuela and other failed countries where either totalitarian leaders screwed everyone over (North Korea) or widespread corruption was allowed to screw the system (Venezuela) - they don't look at the successes like the Scandinavian countries.
Truth is, America has already adopted some socialist ideas - the 40 hour work week comes from socialism. Medicare and Medicaid are socialistic programs. Pro sports uses some socialistic practices as well
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Post by Jibbs on Feb 7, 2019 17:38:07 GMT -5
Green Deal? More like Green Book.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Feb 7, 2019 18:45:04 GMT -5
AOC wasn't named to the environmental panel of the House so there's that. The High tax on the rich most Democrats are speaking about is their fair share - and they're still going to be filty rich after paying it - they should pay in to the system that allowed them to get so rich in the first place, should they not? In any case, the tax would be a graduated tax (i.e. taxed at different percentages for different levels of wealth) - the steepest of which would only be applied to the highest amount of their income - so it won't be a flat high tax to EVERYTHING. The idea is not to make them pay through the nose, but only their fair share. Look man, I want these things and so do a lot if not most of others in this country. What is a "fair share"? Raise the taxes on the wealthy on corporations, but be aware you take away a certain pct/cap, people move themselves or their assets elsewhere. I've said it before here, but my personal belief is the highest all-in rate of 49.99999% should be the realistic target. No one will want to work in an environment where the majority of their income is taken away.
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frankyt
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Post by frankyt on Feb 7, 2019 19:40:15 GMT -5
Bull shit. Show me the stats on that. They taxed the fuck outta the rich during the 50s and everyone stayed put and kept pumping money into the economy. Rich people will always wanna be richer none of them just retire out right, they love power and influence way more than money. It's just a symptom of being human.
This myth that the trickle will give up (please tell me you don't believe in Reaganomics) if they have to pay some more is fucking absurd. Like the estate tax all the best ****s have accountants worth their weight in gold that will make sure they don't lose a penny.
The only time the super rich need to be worried is if we simplify the tax code. And that shit won't ever happen.
And if they do leave? Good. It will allow another group of people to become wealthy
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Feb 7, 2019 20:34:42 GMT -5
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Feb 7, 2019 20:42:43 GMT -5
And no, I don't believe in Reaganomics, but I do believe in Cayman tax havens, which have been and will continue to be used for tax shelter.
I'm in favor of a progressive tax system, it just needs to be realistic in what it is trying to achieve and how it will get there.
Then again I try to read opinions I would normally disagree with (Splinter, ChapoTrapHouse), and may be up against a strawman from the shitheads that legit think seizing the means of production is a good idea.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Feb 7, 2019 23:20:23 GMT -5
*Not believe in their utility, but that they exist, to clarify.
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Post by Neverending on Feb 8, 2019 2:02:01 GMT -5
AOC wasn't named to the environmental panel of the House so there's that. The High tax on the rich most Democrats are speaking about is their fair share - and they're still going to be filty rich after paying it - they should pay in to the system that allowed them to get so rich in the first place, should they not? In any case, the tax would be a graduated tax (i.e. taxed at different percentages for different levels of wealth) - the steepest of which would only be applied to the highest amount of their income - so it won't be a flat high tax to EVERYTHING. The idea is not to make them pay through the nose, but only their fair share. Look man, I want these things and so do a lot if not most of others in this country. What is a "fair share"? Raise the taxes on the wealthy on corporations, but be aware you take away a certain pct/cap, people move themselves or their assets elsewhere. I've said it before here, but my personal belief is the highest all-in rate of 49.99999% should be the realistic target. No one will want to work in an environment where the majority of their income is taken away. My understanding is they wanna tax what they make above $5 million. So if you make $5,000,001 you’re only getting taxed on that $1. In more realistic terms, if someone made a billion they’re getting taxed for $995,000,000 which at 50%, for example, is $497,500,000. They would be keeping $502,500,000. Who needs that much money? If you’re a multi-billionaire you won’t even notice it.
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68ElCamino
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Post by 68ElCamino on Feb 8, 2019 5:17:41 GMT -5
I remember the War Games movie them saying you are listening to a computer,don't act like one. Now it can be said your listening to a 29 year old.Don't act like one.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Feb 8, 2019 6:37:39 GMT -5
Look man, I want these things and so do a lot if not most of others in this country. What is a "fair share"? Raise the taxes on the wealthy on corporations, but be aware you take away a certain pct/cap, people move themselves or their assets elsewhere. I've said it before here, but my personal belief is the highest all-in rate of 49.99999% should be the realistic target. No one will want to work in an environment where the majority of their income is taken away. My understanding is they wanna tax what they make above $5 million. So if you make $5,000,001 you’re only getting taxed on that $1. In more realistic terms, if someone made a billion they’re getting taxed for $995,000,000 which at 50%, for example, is $497,500,000. They would be keeping $502,500,000. Who needs that much money? If you’re a multi-billionaire you won’t even notice it. 10%, 70% marginal tax rate that AOC is presenting with the same starting numbers leaves you at 307.000,000. All I'm saying is that cap should be leaving the person at 500,000,000. It's not a question of who "needs" the money. It's that someone should rightfully be allowed to keep the majority of what they earn, no matter how that money is earned legally. Money speculation and investment is not evil, is not "taken" from the populace, and like it or not, it's necessary to keep the economy going. Saying "Wall St. took your money" is a lazy, disingenuous grab at votes.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Feb 8, 2019 6:46:28 GMT -5
*And taxes need to go down on the poor as well, whose effective tax rate is huge when accointing for the tax they have to pay on benefits, which should be eliminated.
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Ramplate
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Post by Ramplate on Feb 8, 2019 7:42:41 GMT -5
I don't think a graduated system would be too much to ask I'd pay it if I were rich (If I ever won the lottery I'd give a one time gift to family, and keep $2million for myself - then I would set up a foundation that grew the money while donating to works yearly for the public good)
It's not 70% of all their income, just the very top amount, anything under that threshold would be taxed at a lower rate, and then an even lower rate at another threshold.
The idea isn't to mug them for every penny. But right now they're getting trillions in tax cuts they don't even need.
I do think the tax cuts for businesses was a good idea - that should (should) add up to better pay for people, and business growth (although that's not the case yet).
Also they need to limit corporate stock buybacks - that artificially inflates the value, also allows them to shovel that money back into the highest ranks of investors and board members - they always take care of the top. which is not wrong, they deserve return on their investment and payment for work on the board - but they already get million dollar bonuses for screwing the rest of us (the last recession)
I also think those off shore accounts should be taxable.
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Ramplate
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Post by Ramplate on Feb 8, 2019 9:46:56 GMT -5
Jeff Bezos just scared the crap out of AMI (Parent company of The National Enquirer) History - Donald Trump hates the fact that Bezos (owner of Amazon & The Washington Post) is the richest person in the world, AND the W.P. gives Donald bad press. Trump has criticized Bezos, Amazon, and WP - suggesting that the USPO charge double for Amazon packages, and other goofy ideas. Back on the day that Former Trump fixer Cohen made a plea deal to turn state's evidence on all of his dealings with Trump, there was already a signed immunity agreement on the prosecutor's desk that was signed by David Pecker (owner of AMI and The National Enquirer - and long time friend of Trump) to also turn state's evidence against Trump concerning their illegal dealings (Campaign finance fraud etc.) Pecker's deal for immunity - also included a 5 year(?) clause to stay out of illegal dealings. If they get caught doing anything illegal within that time - the agreement is null and void - and they can be prosecuted for EVERY crime they already confessed to in the agreement - and the statute of limitations, in their case, on such crimes - does not expire! The National Enquirer printed text messages between Bezos and his girlfriend - leading to his divorce from his wife. Jeff Bezos then launched a private investigation into how those messages got leaked to the Enquirer. The investigation suggests that it was some government link to the theft of texts, because their phones did not appear to be conventionally hacked. The investigation led AMI to respond with a letter from their lawyer in NY to Bezos layer in CA stating if they do not cease with their investigation and stay silent, The National Enquirer will respond with compromising photos (and they went into a description of what each photo showed) being published for all to see. Bezos then took this to the paper and published everything that AMI was trying to do to Blackmail, extort from, him in perpetuity - calling it a political hit job. You can't blackmail the richest man in the world, idiots HAHAHAHAHHA!
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frankyt
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Post by frankyt on Feb 8, 2019 10:03:29 GMT -5
This is exactly what I'm saying the only way to tax the rich effectively would be to simplify the tax code. It's all lip service anyway, so what's the big problem? Everyone in that top bracket has good accountants and they can lower their income levels per year to not have to pay that. Increase capital gains taxes as well because as a percentage warren buffet should be paying more taxes than his secretary. It's common sense shit that gets lost in the shuffle. And again there is zero factual basis that people will stop investing or working towards higher tax bills because they are being taxed. The gop Utopia of Kansas and New Orleans both fell flat on their face because simply put the rich don't invest blindly. They don't invest for the good of the populace. They pocket money and they always will. For the life of me I'll never understand people that will never even sniff those income levels fight tooth and nail to protect their overlords bottom line. Lowering taxes on the rich does nothing. Let's try increasing them again. See what happens.
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Ramplate
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Post by Ramplate on Feb 8, 2019 11:31:58 GMT -5
Look at how much money the ultra rich poured into the election - to me, that money would be better spent elsewhere - corporations are not people too - Superpacs have to be eliminated. By the way, the Koch Brothers aren't on the list because they managed to secretly funnel money into the election. The Koch Brothers are also into slyly intimidating their employees - they send each employee a pamphlet about upcoming elections and what expenses they would have to cut (read: JOBS) should a certain candidate not win the election - nice huh?
1 Tom Steyer $66.3 million 2 Miriam & Sheldon Adelson $52.7 million 3 S. Donald Sussman $36.8 million 4 Fred Eychaner $33.1 million 5 Robert Mercer $21.2 million 6 Michael Bloomberg $20.1 million 7 Paul Singer $19.8 million 8 Marilyn & James Simons $18.5 million 9 George Soros $17.5 million 10 Dustin Moskovitz & Cari Tuna $17.3 million
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Post by Neverending on Feb 8, 2019 19:58:41 GMT -5
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Feb 8, 2019 21:03:33 GMT -5
When did I say to not tax the billionaires, or anything that would indicate that I agree with the Trump tax changes?
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frankyt
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Post by frankyt on Feb 8, 2019 21:26:47 GMT -5
That's fair I think we've got a lotta hard feelings about it and are lashing out a bit and assuming too much. I know I am. Too easy to put everyone in a box.
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Ramplate
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Post by Ramplate on Feb 12, 2019 8:39:34 GMT -5
Tentative deal reached by the bipartisan group. In part it limits the number of beds for detainees at the border (so that ICE will have to conserve and save spots for the most dangerous law breakers) because it costs about $1,000/day/person detained and waiting for court. They need more judges down there to handle all the "no tolerance" clusterfuck created by the Administration. Other than that, Democrats gave $1 billion plus for new fencing - enough for about 55 miles. Trump could claim complete victory if he stretched that out from The Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific Ocean he could build the wall he envisioned… at about 9.9 inches tall Meanwhile, more lies at his rally last night of course... ...and then there's this www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/trump-seems-to-borrow-clinton-s-stronger-together-1441164355567
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Post by Neverending on Feb 13, 2019 17:32:40 GMT -5
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1godzillafan
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Post by 1godzillafan on Feb 13, 2019 17:49:15 GMT -5
K. I'll go back to complaining about Fox News then.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Feb 13, 2019 19:07:52 GMT -5
Fox News getting dragged daily brings my heart warmth.
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68ElCamino
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Post by 68ElCamino on Feb 14, 2019 5:24:43 GMT -5
I got back more this year than last. Beto might run for Texas senate in 2020. But reading about that drug couple that had there kids locked in cages down here makes me hope he doesn't so more of that won't happen. Amazon might now move more to Austin with the protest in New York happening.
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Ramplate
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Post by Ramplate on Feb 14, 2019 6:50:03 GMT -5
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