Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Mar 12, 2020 19:11:23 GMT -5
Ohhh AOC. If there's anyone who's going to really torpedo Democrats it's her. But hey she can 'clap back' and can create 'Twitter firestorms' so she's great actually.
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Deexan
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Post by Deexan on Mar 12, 2020 19:20:28 GMT -5
Bernie's failure makes AOC's future more bleak as a democrat.
Maybe now is the time for a genuine progressive 3rd party to emerge.
Plan B: find yourselves an American Guy Fawkes.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Mar 12, 2020 20:01:42 GMT -5
Bernie's failure makes AOC's future more bleak as a democrat. Maybe now is the time for a genuine progressive 3rd party to emerge. Not possible with the electoral college and winner take all house/senate races. Third parties serve no purpose other than to be spoilers. And if anything Bernie's run makes AOC's future more promising. Sanders won the youth vote to an insane degree, if those people grow up and stay progressive they'll almost certainly try to get behind AOC or someone like her.
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Mar 12, 2020 20:14:02 GMT -5
That's the problem though. A lot of that progressive youth vote often doesn't stay progressive as they grow up.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Mar 12, 2020 20:25:17 GMT -5
That's the problem though. A lot of that progressive youth vote often doesn't stay progressive as they grow up. Nah, they stay progressive, it's just that an even younger generation comes in behind them and changes when qualifies as "progressive." 60s Hippies didn't suddenly decide that they no longer want black people to vote in the south or that the Vietnam war was good after all, they just didn't decide they were into gay marriage and saw no irony in supporting Iraq.
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Deexan
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Post by Deexan on Mar 12, 2020 20:31:14 GMT -5
Once upon a time my lifelong dream was to live in New York City. Seems more like a nightmare now.
I'm edging towards Canada instead. CANADA.
What untold hideousness hath ye wrought, Yanks?!
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Mar 12, 2020 20:42:21 GMT -5
That's the problem though. A lot of that progressive youth vote often doesn't stay progressive as they grow up. Nah, they stay progressive, it's just that an even younger generation comes in behind them and changes when qualifies as "progressive." 60s Hippies didn't suddenly decide that they no longer want black people to vote in the south or that the Vietnam war was good after all, they just didn't decide they were into gay marriage and saw no irony in supporting Iraq. I dunno, I don't think you'll find a lot of young progressives who do a hard 180 and become tea partiers but I think there are a lot of areas where they cool down as they grow older especially as they try to attain more wealth. They might stay pro-choice, pro-gay marriage and have different ideas about the width of the social safety net but they might shift their views on things like the the effectiveness of rent control or raising property taxes or jacking taxes up overall. It's like they say, it's easy to say the other guy needs to pay more taxes until you become the other guy. I know a few people who are just as nuts on the hard left or right as they were in college but most folks I come across become a little more practical as time goes on. Unless they're on Facebook or Twitter, that's when they let the beast out.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Mar 12, 2020 20:56:18 GMT -5
Nah, they stay progressive, it's just that an even younger generation comes in behind them and changes when qualifies as "progressive." 60s Hippies didn't suddenly decide that they no longer want black people to vote in the south or that the Vietnam war was good after all, they just didn't decide they were into gay marriage and saw no irony in supporting Iraq. I dunno, I don't think you'll find a lot of young progressives who do a hard 180 and become tea partiers but I think there are a lot of areas where they cool down as they grow older especially as they try to attain more wealth. They might stay pro-choice, pro-gay marriage and have different ideas about the width of the social safety net but they might shift their views on things like the the effectiveness of rent control or raising property taxes or jacking taxes up overall. It's like they say, it's easy to say the other guy needs to pay more taxes until you become the other guy. I know a few people who are just as nuts on the hard left or right as they were in college but most folks I come across become a little more practical as time goes on. Unless they're on Facebook or Twitter, that's when they let the beast out. But isn't that shift predicated on the current progressive youth being able to find a degree of financial stability and comfort (and in mass numbers) that, at the current moment, does not seem especially likely? Like, yeah, it's easier to shift further to the middle when you start pulling 100k a year with a full time job and own a house, but when your working precariously and giving 2/3ds of your income to a landlord you still rent from, leftist politics are far more appealing.
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Post by Neverending on Mar 12, 2020 21:10:22 GMT -5
I hope AOC becomes President just to piss off DoomsdayI’m voting out of spite
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Mar 12, 2020 21:11:33 GMT -5
Canadian PM family has the 'Rona now.
How's your universal healthcare NOW, @coop?
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Mar 12, 2020 21:22:01 GMT -5
Canadian PM family has the 'Rona now. How's your universal healthcare NOW, @coop? Well, I have healthcare access if I get sick, so pretty good.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Mar 12, 2020 21:25:01 GMT -5
Canadian PM family has the 'Rona now. How's your universal healthcare NOW, @coop? Well, I have healthcare access if I get sick, so pretty good. Quit wit yer fax and logic!
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Mar 12, 2020 21:31:00 GMT -5
I dunno, I don't think you'll find a lot of young progressives who do a hard 180 and become tea partiers but I think there are a lot of areas where they cool down as they grow older especially as they try to attain more wealth. They might stay pro-choice, pro-gay marriage and have different ideas about the width of the social safety net but they might shift their views on things like the the effectiveness of rent control or raising property taxes or jacking taxes up overall. It's like they say, it's easy to say the other guy needs to pay more taxes until you become the other guy. I know a few people who are just as nuts on the hard left or right as they were in college but most folks I come across become a little more practical as time goes on. Unless they're on Facebook or Twitter, that's when they let the beast out. But isn't that shift predicated on the current progressive youth being able to find a degree of financial stability and comfort (and in mass numbers) that, at the current moment, does not seem especially likely? Like, yeah, it's easier to shift further to the middle when you start pulling 100k a year with a full time job and own a house, but when your working precariously and giving 2/3ds of your income to a landlord you still rent from, leftist politics are far more appealing. I think you're exactly right, a lot of people in their 20s and 30s right now are saddled with a lot of crap that our parents just didn't have. That's why it's infuriating to hear people our parents' age say 'all you gotta do is pound the pavement, knock on doors, that's how you get jobs' or 'I worked my way through college' or 'I bought a house when I was 24.' They just didn't have that experience and we don't have those opportunities. It's easy to gravitate towards politicians who say 'You got student debt? I'll get rid of it.' But that still doesn't make you marketable if you aren't so already. It won't bring the price of a house down and I think younger folks are starting to realize that. If you want to buy a house you don't move to California which is why young people are moving to Boise and Dallas, not Los Angeles. If you have career aspirations that don't require going $100,000 into debt, don't go to college. Progressive policies like 'free college' or 'wiping out debt' might sound good if you're in a rut but I don't think that means the policy is correct. People will do what they always do, they'll respond to what they have before waiting for some policy change which may or may not be good in the long run. They'll move to other cities, find other jobs or choose not to go to college despite our idiot parents telling us that it's vital that we do so.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Mar 12, 2020 21:56:18 GMT -5
Nah, they stay progressive, it's just that an even younger generation comes in behind them and changes when qualifies as "progressive." 60s Hippies didn't suddenly decide that they no longer want black people to vote in the south or that the Vietnam war was good after all, they just didn't decide they were into gay marriage and saw no irony in supporting Iraq. but they might shift their views on things like the the effectiveness of rent control or raising property taxes or jacking taxes up overall. It's like they say, it's easy to say the other guy needs to pay more taxes until you become the other guy. I know a few people who are just as nuts on the hard left or right as they were in college but most folks I come across become a little more practical as time goes on. Unless they're on Facebook or Twitter, that's when they let the beast out. I wouldn't say that rent control or property taxes are cornerstones of the Sanders platform (or national issues in general) and the tax code presently is so wildy biased in favor of the wealthiest of the wealthy that you'd really need to do something extreme for reforms to it to be unreasonable. Obviously this generation will mellow out over time in terms of tactics and rhetoric, but don't expect concepts like medicare for all and free college to disappear with time.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Mar 12, 2020 22:02:15 GMT -5
When your base posts moronic stuff like this and the replies, you deserve to lose.
Bernie was always a meme candidate. Sucks to hear, but it's true.
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Deexan
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Post by Deexan on Mar 12, 2020 22:15:15 GMT -5
"Every empire on this earth has fallen."
No matter how strong.
It's due, both sides of the Atlantic.
But what comes next?
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Mar 12, 2020 22:59:26 GMT -5
but they might shift their views on things like the the effectiveness of rent control or raising property taxes or jacking taxes up overall. It's like they say, it's easy to say the other guy needs to pay more taxes until you become the other guy. I know a few people who are just as nuts on the hard left or right as they were in college but most folks I come across become a little more practical as time goes on. Unless they're on Facebook or Twitter, that's when they let the beast out. Obviously this generation will mellow out over time in terms of tactics and rhetoric, but don't expect concepts like medicare for all and free college to disappear with time. I don't think concepts like those disappear completely but I do believe people change how they look at them over time. I don't think anybody, even the most passionate conservative, thinks the healthcare system in the US is just aces but I also think more people would prefer to see attempts to bring healthcare costs down and make it more accessible rather than shutting down private health insurance and having the government control it. I think there are many more people who would rather see attempts to lower college costs and cramp down on predatory lending rather than just making it free. At least that's just what I gather from people I surround myself with and those I listen to, both left and right, and I think there are reasons why some issues speak to younger people and not so much to older folks, and vice versa.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Mar 13, 2020 6:42:42 GMT -5
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frankyt
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Post by frankyt on Mar 13, 2020 7:18:38 GMT -5
Gonna bounce back today on thoughts that Central banks will intervene. Still think earnings are gonna drive shit lower in the short term.
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Post by Neverending on Mar 13, 2020 9:04:19 GMT -5
Gonna bounce back today on thoughts that Central banks will intervene. Still think earnings are gonna drive shit lower in the short term.
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frankyt
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Post by frankyt on Mar 13, 2020 9:34:52 GMT -5
Heard he's balking on signing anything because it's called a bailout.
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Post by Neverending on Mar 13, 2020 13:36:29 GMT -5
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Post by Neverending on Mar 13, 2020 14:55:33 GMT -5
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Mar 13, 2020 15:04:32 GMT -5
This speech is awful.
Mike Pence literally just stood up there and gave Trump the most sycophantic pat on the back I've seen on TV. This administration is a disgrace. Trump's lack of recognition and empathy has never been more apparent.
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Post by Neverending on Mar 13, 2020 15:06:46 GMT -5
This speech is awful. Mike Pence literally just stood up there and gave Trump the most sycophantic pat on the back I've seen on TV. This administration is a disgrace. Trump's lack of recognition and empathy has never been more apparent. To think, we could have impeached him a month ago.
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