PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Jun 23, 2020 18:45:27 GMT -5
Unforgiven and Malcolm X are both fantastic.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Jun 23, 2020 19:20:26 GMT -5
Where's your 5 Bloods review? Neverending has been waiting on it for weeks.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Jun 23, 2020 19:51:08 GMT -5
Where's your 5 Bloods review? Neverending has been waiting on it for weeks. When BlacKkKlansman hit theaters in 2018, I remember feeling that the world really needed Spike Lee in the era of Trump and rising white supremacy. Two years later and in the midst of mass protests combating racism and fighting for Black lives, Da 5 Bloods feels yet more urgent. Lee's newest film, a war drama about a group of Black veterans who return to Vietnam in search of buried gold, is bursting with inspired passion, at its best offering a blistering piece of cinematic vision. Building off of BlacKkKlansman, Lee pushes yet further in exploring double consciousness, this time through a study of what it means to be a Black man willing to die for a country that vilifies you. This manifests itself most intensely with Paul (Delroy Lindo), a deeply troubled veteran who exudes a right-wing nationalism while struggling with self-loathing, guilt, and PTSD. Delroy Lindo's performance is unequivocally amazing with an extended fourth-wall break proving incredibly powerful. While Lee is clearly sympathetic to his veterans the complexities of being a Black veteran, Da 5 Bloods also pays considerable attention to the horrific violence suffered by the Vietnamese. In both the trauma inflicted and its haunting aftermath, Lee stresses the ways in which both its American and Vietnamese characters are still victims of the American empire. In spite of this, Da 5 Bloods is also hopeful, gesturing towards both individual and community healing. Looking at the film as a whole, it's clear to me that Da 5 Bloods is a great movie, but how great is tough to say. In some ways the actual story lets the themes and characters down. The original script (which was to be directed by Oliver Stone) was not about Black soldiers and that does come through. Lee's racial critique undeniably elevates the film but it isn't as seamless a match as some of his other films. Additionally, Da 5 Bloods peaks at the halfway point with a gutwrenching set-piece involving a mine which is brilliant at multiple levels. The film definitely has its moments afterwards, but it never quite reaches that same high. Overall, I think this is one I'm gonna need to revisit. There's a lot going on in Da 5 Bloods thematically that definitely needs more time to sort though. But even a first viewing gave me a lot to chew on, while also offering some brilliant performances (I highlighted Lindo, but the whole cast is great. Chadwick Boseman continues to distinguish himself as a star) and blistering moments of cinema. Between this and the success of BlacKkKlansman, it seems Spike Lee has returned to the forefront of American filmmaking, and I couldn't be happier about that. A-
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Jun 24, 2020 1:27:40 GMT -5
I’ve heard some people praise the mine scene. I thought it was very predictable and felt almost cartoony seeing his body blown to bits like the beginning of Tropic Thunder. It just felt really out of place to me.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Jun 24, 2020 6:45:58 GMT -5
Malcolm X is a good movie. Unforgiven is a great movie. Flip that No
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jun 24, 2020 7:09:09 GMT -5
It sounds like PG Cooper is reviewing the movie he wanted Da 5 Bloods to be. Does it address Black soldiers fighting for a country that doesn’t value them? Yes. Does it explore it? No. Does it mention the plight of the Vietnamese? Yup. Does it do anything with it? Nope. The movie lacks focus, nuance, subtlety. But that said. The mine scene and the overall treasure hunt are indeed highlights. This might have actually made a pretty interesting Oliver Stone film. But as a Spike Lee joint, it distracts from what Lee wanted to accomplish. He had to juggle wartime commentary & social commentary with an entirely different movie and dropped the ball. The movie would have worked if the gold was a macguffin and not the actual centerpiece of the story. Doomsday is correct that the mine scene is when the movie shifts from one thing to something else entirely. The story should have been these guys facing their PTSD in the jungle and then at the very end they get to the gold. Or there’s no gold at all. SnoBorderZero, hire me as a script doctor. I’ll fix all your movies.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Jun 24, 2020 12:47:43 GMT -5
I’ve heard some people praise the mine scene. I thought it was very predictable and felt almost cartoony seeing his body blown to bits like the beginning of Tropic Thunder. It just felt really out of place to me. It was very predictable. That was the first thing I thought would happen once they started getting hits for treasure. It was a much needed jolt to the stilted nature of the film, but it was also very expected. Also, they sure didn't mourn him a whole lot. Their chemistry throughout the film was almost nonexistent, and it was very evident when they just quickly move past the fact one of them just got blown to pieces.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Jun 24, 2020 12:54:32 GMT -5
It sounds like PG Cooper is reviewing the movie he wanted Da 5 Bloods to be. Does it address Black soldiers fighting for a country that doesn’t value them? Yes. Does it explore it? No. Does it mention the plight of the Vietnamese? Yup. Does it do anything with it? Nope. The movie lacks focus, nuance, subtlety. But that said. The mine scene and the overall treasure hunt are indeed highlights. This might have actually made a pretty interesting Oliver Stone film. But as a Spike Lee joint, it distracts from what Lee wanted to accomplish. He had to juggle wartime commentary & social commentary with an entirely different movie and dropped the ball. The movie would have worked if the gold was a macguffin and not the actual centerpiece of the story. Doomsday is correct that the mine scene is when the movie shifts from one thing to something else entirely. The story should have been these guys facing their PTSD in the jungle and then at the very end they get to the gold. Or there’s no gold at all. SnoBorderZero , hire me as a script doctor. I’ll fix all your movies. I also felt that they should've restructured the gold hunt of the film. How about they have their sole, initial mission being retrieving Chadwick Boseman's body and upon discovering it through their brotherhood and loyalty to give him a proper burial and recognition, they find a map of the treasure on his person? Not like he was holding out on them, but was going to split the treasure with them and just hadn't gotten around to telling them about it. Something like that. Now we have a much needed secondary plot that actually becomes the real plot. Their loyalties to one another are tested because of greed and what America has done to their psyches and the different lives they now live bubble to the surface and create tension. There's your The Treasure of the Sierra Madre thrills set against the backdrop of Lee's themes that, like you mentioned, he just skims the surface of. There's a great movie in Da 5 Bloods, which is what ultimately makes the end result so damn frustrating and disappointing. You use my plot device, and you eliminate the awful Jean Reno character who devolves the film into a laughable shootout by its climax and just detracts from the potential drama and double-crossing that you have with the characters actually at the center of it. Major missed opportunity.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jun 24, 2020 13:37:04 GMT -5
It sounds like PG Cooper is reviewing the movie he wanted Da 5 Bloods to be. Does it address Black soldiers fighting for a country that doesn’t value them? Yes. Does it explore it? No. Does it mention the plight of the Vietnamese? Yup. Does it do anything with it? Nope. The movie lacks focus, nuance, subtlety. But that said. The mine scene and the overall treasure hunt are indeed highlights. This might have actually made a pretty interesting Oliver Stone film. But as a Spike Lee joint, it distracts from what Lee wanted to accomplish. He had to juggle wartime commentary & social commentary with an entirely different movie and dropped the ball. The movie would have worked if the gold was a macguffin and not the actual centerpiece of the story. Doomsday is correct that the mine scene is when the movie shifts from one thing to something else entirely. The story should have been these guys facing their PTSD in the jungle and then at the very end they get to the gold. Or there’s no gold at all. SnoBorderZero , hire me as a script doctor. I’ll fix all your movies. I also felt that they should've restructured the gold hunt of the film. How about they have their sole, initial mission being retrieving Chadwick Boseman's body and upon discovering it through their brotherhood and loyalty to give him a proper burial and recognition, they find a map of the treasure on his person? Not like he was holding out on them, but was going to split the treasure with them and just hadn't gotten around to telling them about it. Something like that. Now we have a much needed secondary plot that actually becomes the real plot. Their loyalties to one another are tested because of greed and what America has done to their psyches and the different lives they now live bubble to the surface and create tension. There's your The Treasure of the Sierra Madre thrills set against the backdrop of Lee's themes that, like you mentioned, he just skims the surface of. There's a great movie in Da 5 Bloods, which is what ultimately makes the end result so damn frustrating and disappointing. You use my plot device, and you eliminate the awful Jean Reno character who devolves the film into a laughable shootout by its climax and just detracts from the potential drama and double-crossing that you have with the characters actually at the center of it. Major missed opportunity. Get Spike Lee on the phone.
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Jun 24, 2020 14:00:11 GMT -5
I’ve heard some people praise the mine scene. I thought it was very predictable and felt almost cartoony seeing his body blown to bits like the beginning of Tropic Thunder. It just felt really out of place to me. It was very predictable. That was the first thing I thought would happen once they started getting hits for treasure. It was a much needed jolt to the stilted nature of the film, but it was also very expected. Also, they sure didn't mourn him a whole lot. Their chemistry throughout the film was almost nonexistent, and it was very evident when they just quickly move past the fact one of them just got blown to pieces. It was right when the son met the team of 'charity mine sweepers' that I thought 'damn this movie's gonna have fucking mines now?' Because why else make them mine hunters if you aren't going to have mines? So from that moment on you're looking out for the mine and instead of having it happen suddenly and unexpectedly (or not at all) it's right when you most expect it. It's so telegraphed.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Jun 24, 2020 16:37:46 GMT -5
It was right when the son met the team of 'charity mine sweepers' that I thought 'damn this movie's gonna have fucking mines now?' Because why else make them mine hunters if you aren't going to have mines? So from that moment on you're looking out for the mine and instead of having it happen suddenly and unexpectedly (or not at all) it's right when you most expect it. It's so telegraphed. Yup, and that's all that their purpose served for the film too. Da 5 Bloods is a very busy film but for no reason at all. Get rid of the French people, get rid of Jean Reno and his team of assassins. Keep it centered on a group of friends reconciling with their pasts and how little America has changed and then the treasure hunting aspect provides the thrills and drama that divides them. When you think of it, a Vietnam War centered version of The Treasure of the Sierra Madre compounded with Spike Lee's themes should've been a homerun of a film. I mean, that's a damn great premise and doesn't need all of these additional moving parts to make it work.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Jun 24, 2020 16:38:32 GMT -5
Get Spike Lee on the phone. He's still mad at me for not liking He Got Game.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Jun 24, 2020 16:42:44 GMT -5
Get Spike Lee on the phone. He's still mad at me for not liking He Got Game. Well he should have been mad at you for that. He Got Game was good.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Jun 24, 2020 16:57:28 GMT -5
Well he should have been mad at you for that. He Got Game was good. Not a fan. Bad acting and dialogue outside of Denzel (characters in Lee's movies emote exactly how they feel with a lot of declamatory statements that don't land), lack of focus on the father-son dynamic, poor subplots especially the odd one where Denzel deals with the prostitute with the heart of gold, cartoony take on an athlete being courted. I want to like He Got Game, but I can't. It's too meandering and Ray Allen can't act whatsoever but is asked to carry some heavy dramatic scenes that land with a thud.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jun 24, 2020 18:18:01 GMT -5
I want to say I like He Got Game, but I might be lying to myself.
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1godzillafan
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Post by 1godzillafan on Jun 24, 2020 18:24:34 GMT -5
He Got Game? More like He Got LAME!
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jun 24, 2020 18:30:10 GMT -5
He Got Game? More like He Got LAME! Ray Allen banged Rosario Dawson. Nothing lame about that.
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1godzillafan
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Post by 1godzillafan on Jun 24, 2020 18:32:21 GMT -5
He Got Game? More like He Got LAME! Ray Allen banged Rosario Dawson. Nothing lame about that. Haven't seen it.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jun 25, 2020 11:16:08 GMT -5
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Jun 25, 2020 11:34:59 GMT -5
That critique seems more than a little unfair, it's basically criticizing the movie for what it isn't (a movie told from a Vietnamese perspective) than for what it is (a movie told from an African American perspective). With rare exceptions American films are by their nature going to be told from an American perspective, there's nothing inherently wrong with that. The nation of Vietnam has a film industry and if you want a War film told from the Vietnamese perspective that's probably what you should look toward.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Jun 25, 2020 17:42:32 GMT -5
That critique seems more than a little unfair, it's basically criticizing the movie for what it isn't (a movie told from a Vietnamese perspective) than for what it is (a movie told from an African American perspective). With rare exceptions American films are by their nature going to be told from an American perspective, there's nothing inherently wrong with that. The nation of Vietnam has a film industry and if you want a War film told from the Vietnamese perspective that's probably what you should look toward. While that is true, the film does fail to come to terms with the experiences both the soldiers and the Vietnamese went through and also their lives in the aftermath. Lee hints at this being a major element early on, especially with the boat scene where a conflict emerges between the soldier and the merchant, but like most of the promise of the first act it's abandoned entirely for the nonsensical shootouts and subplots that dominate the second half of the film. Lee missed a major opportunity to portray the black soldiers and the Vietnamese people both as victims of white America's appetite for bloodlust and viewing them as disposable, and therefore establishing an understanding and empathy years removed from it all. I kept waiting for this theme to be fully realized, but it never occurs. It's one of many examples of this film missing the mark.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jun 25, 2020 17:53:30 GMT -5
That critique seems more than a little unfair, it's basically criticizing the movie for what it isn't (a movie told from a Vietnamese perspective) than for what it is (a movie told from an African American perspective). With rare exceptions American films are by their nature going to be told from an American perspective, there's nothing inherently wrong with that. The nation of Vietnam has a film industry and if you want a War film told from the Vietnamese perspective that's probably what you should look toward. While that is true, the film does fail to come to terms with the experiences both the soldiers and the Vietnamese went through and also their lives in the aftermath. Lee hints at this being a major element early on, especially with the boat scene where a conflict emerges between the soldier and the merchant, but like most of the promise of the first act it's abandoned entirely for the nonsensical shootouts and subplots that dominate the second half of the film. Lee missed a major opportunity to portray the black soldiers and the Vietnamese people both as victims of white America's appetite for bloodlust and viewing them as disposable, and therefore establishing an understanding and empathy years removed from it all. I kept waiting for this theme to be fully realized, but it never occurs. It's one of many examples of this film missing the mark. Amen
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IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Jun 27, 2020 13:00:11 GMT -5
Malcolm X > Bram Stoker’s Dracula > Home Alone 2 > Batman Returns > Aladdin > Unforgiven Wayne's World > all of them
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IanTheCool
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Post by IanTheCool on Jun 27, 2020 13:14:16 GMT -5
I did not like this movie. It was a movie of two halves in my mind. And the first half was just plain awful. The editing was atrocious, as was a lot of the dialogue. I didn't like the war flashback scenes, but in that case I recognize that those were just stylistic choices that didn't work for me but may very well work for others. Such as the decision to have the old actors playing their young selves, or the way its shot like a cheesy action film. However, I just can't get past the editing.
In the second half, the movie seemed to be settling into itself and become more emotionally engaging. Once shit started really going wrong I was more engaged. But that soon started wearing off again, and I felt it completely unraveled again by the climactic shootout scene, which felt like a different movie.
As others on here have mentioned, this had the potential to be great. There seems to be a strong theme about paying for the past deeds of your country, with the gold possibly being an analogy for reparations? But I think the script and final edit needed a few more passes.
5/10
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frankyt
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Post by frankyt on Sept 9, 2020 13:06:29 GMT -5
This was trash.
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