Neverending
CS! Platinum
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,792
Likes: 8,649
Location:
Last Online Nov 26, 2024 1:12:58 GMT -5
|
Post by Neverending on Nov 7, 2019 21:42:50 GMT -5
Engaging... but I felt Mike Flanagan’s direction was a bit lacking. It needed a stronger visuals and more commanding editing.
|
|
1godzillafan
Studio Head
Join Date: Feb 2017
I like pie!
Posts: 9,480
Likes: 6,217
Location:
Last Online Nov 8, 2024 5:42:00 GMT -5
|
Post by 1godzillafan on Nov 7, 2019 22:53:24 GMT -5
Enjoyed it.
Yet, it does lose some points for even attempting to recast Jack Nicholson. Like, c'mon. There are just some actors that you shouldn't touch.
|
|
Neverending
CS! Platinum
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,792
Likes: 8,649
Location:
Last Online Nov 26, 2024 1:12:58 GMT -5
|
Post by Neverending on Nov 7, 2019 23:13:35 GMT -5
Enjoyed it. Yet, it does lose some points for even attempting to recast Jack Nicholson. Like, c'mon. There are just some actors that you shouldn't touch. I might be spoiled by fan service, but I was hoping Jack Nicholson would show up. |
|
PG Cooper
CS! Silver
Join Date: Feb 2009
And those who tasted the bite of his sword named him...The DOOM Slayer
Posts: 16,650 
Likes: 4,067
Location:
Last Online Nov 25, 2024 21:43:34 GMT -5
|
Post by PG Cooper on Nov 10, 2019 13:18:52 GMT -5
How'd I miss this thread?
Anyway, I thought this movie fluctuated between boring and stupid. As a horror movie in 2019, it's mostly mediocre. As a sequel to The Shining, it's almost insufferable. Flanagan evokes the imagery and sounds from Kubrick's film, but only at the most superficial level. It's like a cosplay of The Shining, one that recreates the basic aesthics but none of the substance beneath the surface.
I certainly didn't find Doctor Sleep scary, in fact it's less a horror movie and more a supernatural drama about people with psychic powers fighting. Rebecca Ferguson gives a fun performance, but all the same Rose the Hat and her caravan of weirdos are just the lamest of villains.
A handful of scenes do work pretty well and there are glimmers of a more thought-provoking and thematic horror movie, but they never come through. And that's probably what bothers me the most about Doctor Sleep. The problem isn't that Doctor Sleep isn't as good as Kubrick's film, the problem is that Doctor Sleep reduces the tantalzing mystery and thematic depth at the heart of The Shining and reduces it to its most basic and superficial elements. What was a story of how abuse and trauma permeates through people and places has become a story of ghouls, ghosts, and vampires doing battle. Lame.
D+
|
|
Neverending
CS! Platinum
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,792
Likes: 8,649
Location:
Last Online Nov 26, 2024 1:12:58 GMT -5
|
Post by Neverending on Nov 10, 2019 13:37:16 GMT -5
You're lame.
|
|
PhantomKnight
CS! Gold
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 20,532
Likes: 3,135
Location:
Last Online Nov 26, 2024 0:22:29 GMT -5
|
Post by PhantomKnight on Nov 10, 2019 15:35:20 GMT -5
Honestly, I can't say I'm all that surprised at PG Cooper's reaction. Are any of us, really? If he'd liked it, THAT would have been shocking news.
On the not-so-shocking side of things...I quite liked it myself.
Just from a filmmaking point of view, this blows both Pet Sematary and IT: Chapter Two out of the water. Much as I may have been entertained by either of those two movies, Doctor Sleep has much more care and effort, not to mention restraint and emotion, put behind it.
No, this doesn't reach the same heights as The Shining...but nor was it going to. And I think Mike Flanagan himself knew that. Instead, his intention seems to have been to simply make a film that can stand alongside it worthily. To criticize this movie for not being scary is fair enough considering what it's a sequel to, but at the same time, this story wasn't crafted to be a horror movie. Rather a supernatural drama/thriller, and as such, it works. It hones in on the characters first and foremost and makes them compelling before adding in a supernatural threat that is admittedly a bit more outlandish than the original (almost like Stephen King's X-Men, if you will), but still quite interesting in its own right. It takes sort of the mythology of this universe and takes it in a different, yet intriguing direction while also sort of building off it. It also never felt like it was straying TOO far into over-the-top territory. Almost everyone is criticizing the Third Act for going too silly in how it connects itself to Kubrick's film, but honestly...I had a lot of fun with this part. I actually enjoyed how Flanagan pretty much recreated certain iconic shots and scenes here in this section (but also once or twice during the first 2/3rds), and it made for a really entertaining finale for me. The re-casting involved in a lot of this, though? Eh, not necessary. The Third Act also tips its hat to King's original novel, which I also found interesting.
Speaking of hats...Rebecca Furguson crushes it as Rose the Hat. Props to Flanagan for such spot-on casting there, cause she perfectly captures all the qualities of the character from the book. In fact, I kind of want a whole movie about her now. Ewan McGregor and Kayleigh Curran are also really strong here, with McGregor in particular nailing all the big emotional beats for Danny. And directing-wise, Flanagan turns in more solid work, even if he doesn't quite achieve the same level of atmosphere Kubrick did.
If you go in opposing this movie to begin with, yeah, odds are you're not going to enjoy it all that much, though you might still appreciate a lot of things. But if you do go in open to it, you might just be surprised. If we were going to get a Shining sequel, then at least it's coming from a director who's endeavoring to deliver something worthwhile and not a shallow jump scare-a-thon.
***1/2 /****, B+, etc. etc.
|
|
Neverending
CS! Platinum
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,792
Likes: 8,649
Location:
Last Online Nov 26, 2024 1:12:58 GMT -5
|
Post by Neverending on Nov 10, 2019 16:38:35 GMT -5
Honestly, I can't say I'm all that surprised at PG Cooper's reaction. Are any of us, really? If he'd liked it, THAT would have been shocking news.
On the not-so-shocking side of things...I quite liked it myself.
Just from a filmmaking point of view, this blows both Pet Sematary and IT: Chapter Two out of the water. Much as I may have been entertained by either of those two movies, Doctor Sleep has much more care and effort, not to mention restraint and emotion, put behind it.
No, this doesn't reach the same heights as The Shining...but nor was it going to. And I think Mike Flanagan himself knew that. Instead, his intention seems to have been to simply make a film that can stand alongside it worthily. To criticize this movie for not being scary is fair enough considering what it's a sequel to, but at the same time, this story wasn't crafted to be a horror movie. Rather a supernatural drama/thriller, and as such, it works. It hones in on the characters first and foremost and makes them compelling before adding in a supernatural threat that is admittedly a bit more outlandish than the original (almost like Stephen King's X-Men, if you will), but still quite interesting in its own right. It takes sort of the mythology of this universe and takes it in a different, yet intriguing direction while also sort of building off it. It also never felt like it was straying TOO far into over-the-top territory. Almost everyone is criticizing the Third Act for going too silly in how it connects itself to Kubrick's film, but honestly...I had a lot of fun with this part. I actually enjoyed how Flanagan pretty much recreated certain iconic shots and scenes here in this section (but also once or twice during the first 2/3rds), and it made for a really entertaining finale for me. The re-casting involved in a lot of this, though? Eh, not necessary. The Third Act also tips its hat to King's original novel, which I also found interesting.
Speaking of hats...Rebecca Furguson crushes it as Rose the Hat. Props to Flanagan for such spot-on casting there, cause she perfectly captures all the qualities of the character from the book. In fact, I kind of want a whole movie about her now. Ewan McGregor and Kayleigh Curran are also really strong here, with McGregor in particular nailing all the big emotional beats for Danny. And directing-wise, Flanagan turns in more solid work, even if he doesn't quite achieve the same level of atmosphere Kubrick did.
If you go in opposing this movie to begin with, yeah, odds are you're not going to enjoy it all that much, though you might still appreciate a lot of things. But if you do go in open to it, you might just be surprised. If we were going to get a Shining sequel, then at least it's coming from a director who's endeavoring to deliver something worthwhile and not a shallow jump scare-a-thon.
***1/2 /****, B+, etc. etc.
hated Joker and this. Guy’s fucked in the head. |
|
1godzillafan
Studio Head
Join Date: Feb 2017
I like pie!
Posts: 9,480
Likes: 6,217
Location:
Last Online Nov 8, 2024 5:42:00 GMT -5
|
Post by 1godzillafan on Nov 10, 2019 16:50:26 GMT -5
Coop needs to review Playing with Fire so I know how this film measures up.
|
|
Deexan
CS! Silver
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 18,196
Likes: 2,995
Location:
Last Online Nov 13, 2021 19:23:59 GMT -5
|
Post by Deexan on Nov 10, 2019 17:35:12 GMT -5
That motherfucker's got a lot to answer for.
|
|
Neverending
CS! Platinum
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,792
Likes: 8,649
Location:
Last Online Nov 26, 2024 1:12:58 GMT -5
|
Post by Neverending on Nov 10, 2019 18:04:48 GMT -5
Coop needs to review Playing with Fire so I know how this film measures up. was a fan of Judy Moody. John Cena as a fireman is up his alley. |
|
1godzillafan
Studio Head
Join Date: Feb 2017
I like pie!
Posts: 9,480
Likes: 6,217
Location:
Last Online Nov 8, 2024 5:42:00 GMT -5
|
Post by 1godzillafan on Nov 10, 2019 18:11:26 GMT -5
Coop needs to review Playing with Fire so I know how this film measures up. was a fan of Judy Moody. John Cena as a fireman is up his alley. I will not rest until he, Doomsday, Dracula, and SnoBorderZero have filled out an entire review thread for that movie. |
|
Neverending
CS! Platinum
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,792
Likes: 8,649
Location:
Last Online Nov 26, 2024 1:12:58 GMT -5
|
Post by Neverending on Nov 10, 2019 18:15:41 GMT -5
|
|
1godzillafan
Studio Head
Join Date: Feb 2017
I like pie!
Posts: 9,480
Likes: 6,217
Location:
Last Online Nov 8, 2024 5:42:00 GMT -5
|
Post by 1godzillafan on Nov 10, 2019 18:42:59 GMT -5
I have my ways. I mean, I don't give a shit what they have to say about The Lighthouse, JoJo Rabbit, Doctor Sleep or whatever the fuck. But get them all into a thread talking about Playing with Fire...now THAT'S a thread worth reading. |
|
Dracula
CS! Gold
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 26,106
Likes: 5,732
Location:
Last Online Nov 25, 2024 22:45:58 GMT -5
|
Post by Dracula on Nov 10, 2019 19:03:26 GMT -5
I have my ways. I mean, I don't give a shit what they have to say about The Lighthouse, JoJo Rabbit, Doctor Sleep or whatever the fuck. But get them all into a thread talking about Playing with Fire...now THAT'S a thread worth reading. Wire me $750 and I'll happily write you a thousand word review of the bullshit firehouse movie. No promises that it will being unbiased in nature. |
|
Deexan
CS! Silver
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 18,196
Likes: 2,995
Location:
Last Online Nov 13, 2021 19:23:59 GMT -5
|
Post by Deexan on Nov 10, 2019 19:07:00 GMT -5
What else will you do for a buck?
|
|
1godzillafan
Studio Head
Join Date: Feb 2017
I like pie!
Posts: 9,480
Likes: 6,217
Location:
Last Online Nov 8, 2024 5:42:00 GMT -5
|
Post by 1godzillafan on Nov 10, 2019 19:12:56 GMT -5
I have my ways. I mean, I don't give a shit what they have to say about The Lighthouse, JoJo Rabbit, Doctor Sleep or whatever the fuck. But get them all into a thread talking about Playing with Fire...now THAT'S a thread worth reading. Wire me $750 and I'll happily write you a thousand word review of the bullshit firehouse movie. No promises that it will being unbiased in nature. I'll give you a buck fifty and a used toothbrush. |
|
Deexan
CS! Silver
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 18,196
Likes: 2,995
Location:
Last Online Nov 13, 2021 19:23:59 GMT -5
|
Post by Deexan on Nov 10, 2019 19:13:33 GMT -5
Wire me $750 and I'll happily write you a thousand word review of the bullshit firehouse movie. No promises that it will being unbiased in nature. I'll give you a buck fifty and a used toothbrush. HEY I SAW HIM FIRST |
|
1godzillafan
Studio Head
Join Date: Feb 2017
I like pie!
Posts: 9,480
Likes: 6,217
Location:
Last Online Nov 8, 2024 5:42:00 GMT -5
|
Post by 1godzillafan on Nov 10, 2019 19:20:46 GMT -5
I also said nothing about any review being unbiased. I want all of these reviews to be as biased as possible.
|
|
PG Cooper
CS! Silver
Join Date: Feb 2009
And those who tasted the bite of his sword named him...The DOOM Slayer
Posts: 16,650
Likes: 4,067
Location:
Last Online Nov 25, 2024 21:43:34 GMT -5
|
Post by PG Cooper on Nov 10, 2019 19:22:16 GMT -5
Honestly, I can't say I'm all that surprised at PG Cooper's reaction. Are any of us, really? If he'd liked it, THAT would have been shocking news. I did give it an honest chance. I wanted to like it, the early parts with Danny trying to put his life back together worked for me, and during the film's dumber parts I kept thinking "maybe it'll get better when they get to the Overlook". Instead it got worse. I wouldn't say I went in opposing the film, I wanted to like it. I went in cynically, but I also went into Blade Runner 2049 cynically and left the film a blubbering mess praising Villeneuve and his team for pulling off a modern cinematic miracle. I would have loved for Doctor Sleep to give me that feeling. And there are glimpses of that movie. Danny's speech in AA where he talks about knowing his father through drinking is a fascinating avenue for the character I'd have loved to explore. But as that arc feel away for a story of a bunch of weirdos with stupid looking hats trying to steal the magic powers of children, my interest drained away faster than blood in the Overlook's elevators. PG Cooper hated Joker and this. Guy’s fucked in the head. I almost wish I hated Joker, at least then I would have had a more powerful response to the movie and more to say other than "looked good but was shallow". To its credit, Joker is definitely better than this. Coop needs to review Playing with Fire so I know how this film measures up. I'll keep you posted. That motherfucker's got a lot to answer for. Not you too, Deex... Coop needs to review Playing with Fire so I know how this film measures up. was a fan of Judy Moody. John Cena as a fireman is up his alley. PG Cooper was a fan of Judy Moody. John Cena as a fireman is up his alley. I will not rest until he, Doomsday, Dracula, and SnoBorderZero have filled out an entire review thread for that movie. I have seen that film. |
|
Dracula
CS! Gold
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 26,106
Likes: 5,732
Location:
Last Online Nov 25, 2024 22:45:58 GMT -5
|
Post by Dracula on Nov 10, 2019 19:32:14 GMT -5
Wire me $750 and I'll happily write you a thousand word review of the bullshit firehouse movie. No promises that it will being unbiased in nature. I'll give you a buck fifty and a used toothbrush. No sale |
|
1godzillafan
Studio Head
Join Date: Feb 2017
I like pie!
Posts: 9,480
Likes: 6,217
Location:
Last Online Nov 8, 2024 5:42:00 GMT -5
|
Post by 1godzillafan on Nov 10, 2019 19:39:17 GMT -5
I'll give you a buck fifty and a used toothbrush. No sale You'll be back. |
|
Wyldstaar
Producer
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,900
Likes: 1,267
Location:
Last Online Nov 25, 2024 19:45:09 GMT -5
|
Post by Wyldstaar on Nov 10, 2019 21:23:11 GMT -5
I enjoyed it. The film didn't blow me away, but I had a good time. I appreciated that it wasn't just a rehash of The Shining. The ending was fairly predictable, but it's very difficult for a movie to surprise me anymore.
7/10
|
|
PhantomKnight
CS! Gold
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 20,532
Likes: 3,135
Location:
Last Online Nov 26, 2024 0:22:29 GMT -5
|
Post by PhantomKnight on Nov 11, 2019 10:47:58 GMT -5
I wasn't trying to say you went in with your mind already made up, but it did feel like you were going in with Kubrick/Shining bias clouding things just a little. Understandable, given how The Shining is a masterpiece, but you know me - apart from The Shining and A Clockwork Orange, I admire the guy's work more than I love it. So I never really viewed a Shining sequel as sacrilege and thus didn't go in putting a lot on this movie's shoulders. Plus, I'd already read and really dug the book and how it expanded on the mythology of the original.
Also, I just thought this was overall a better put-together film than Pet Sematary '19 (fun horror movie, but kind of standard studio genre fair in terms of execution) and IT 2 (which gets way too episodic, goes on too long and employs spotty CGI as a crutch for its scares).
|
|
PG Cooper
CS! Silver
Join Date: Feb 2009
And those who tasted the bite of his sword named him...The DOOM Slayer
Posts: 16,650
Likes: 4,067
Location:
Last Online Nov 25, 2024 21:43:34 GMT -5
|
Post by PG Cooper on Nov 11, 2019 22:37:25 GMT -5
I wasn't trying to say you went in with your mind already made up, but it did feel like you were going in with Kubrick/Shining bias clouding things just a little. Understandable, given how The Shining is a masterpiece, but you know me - apart from The Shining and A Clockwork Orange, I admire the guy's work more than I love it. So I never really viewed a Shining sequel as sacrilege and thus didn't go in putting a lot on this movie's shoulders. Plus, I'd already read and really dug the book and how it expanded on the mythology of the original. But Doctor Sleep revels in its connections to The Shining, frequently recreating its visuals and sounds. I didn't have to go in with a Shining bias, the film goes out of its way to remind you of Kubrick's film repeatedly. And its recreations are the most shallow invocations of the original film, a parade of references which recreate the aesthetics of The Shining but none of the depth or substance. Yes, I'm holding Doctor Sleep to The Shining's standards, the film invites (even demands) you do that. It's like the Ready Player One set-piece, only instead of a fun rollercoaster ride which lasts a couple of minutes, its two and a half hours. And again, even beyond its lineage, I still found the film boring and not scary. I wasn't sitting there mad because it wasn't as good as The Shining, I was mostly just trying to stay awake. And that's why I prefer Pet Semetary and It Chapter 2 to Doctor Sleep even though both of those films are all kinds of flawed. They at least deliver a mostly competent horror experience. Plus It Chapter 2 had characters I liked whose arcs paid off in a satisfying manner. |
|
Dracula
CS! Gold
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 26,106
Likes: 5,732
Location:
Last Online Nov 25, 2024 22:45:58 GMT -5
|
Post by Dracula on Nov 11, 2019 23:11:24 GMT -5
I wasn't trying to say you went in with your mind already made up, but it did feel like you were going in with Kubrick/Shining bias clouding things just a little. Understandable, given how The Shining is a masterpiece, but you know me - apart from The Shining and A Clockwork Orange, I admire the guy's work more than I love it. So I never really viewed a Shining sequel as sacrilege and thus didn't go in putting a lot on this movie's shoulders. Plus, I'd already read and really dug the book and how it expanded on the mythology of the original. But Doctor Sleep revels in its connections to The Shining, frequently recreating its visuals and sounds. I didn't have to go in with a Shining bias, the film goes out of its way to remind you of Kubrick's film repeatedly. And its recreations are the most shallow invocations of the original film, a parade of references which recreate the aesthetics of The Shining but none of the depth or substance. Yes, I'm holding Doctor Sleep to The Shining's standards, the film invites (even demands) you do that. It's like the Ready Player One set-piece, only instead of a fun rollercoaster ride which lasts a couple of minutes, its two and a half hours. I don't know, if anything I wish that this movie was as interested in re-creating The Shining as you're making it out. Only something like twenty minutes of it plus a few flashbacks are set anywhere near The Overlook and the story otherwise doesn't really mirror or imitate the structure or tone of The Shining at all. The vast majority of the film's runtime is instead devoted to what feels like a kind of middling YA fantasy story about good psychics and bad psychics fighting each other, and that part has its pros and cons, but isn't necessarily something I was terribly interested in seeing in the first place. It was the few parts where the film was trying to actually do something with Kubrick's imagery where I was actually interested and engaged and it felt like the film was at least trying to deliver on what it had promised. |
|
