Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Dec 15, 2014 8:04:50 GMT -5
No Anatomy of a Murder seems a pretty big oversight. I can sort of see losing Hiroshima Mon Amour since we already have The 400 Blows representing French New Wave, but Anatomy shouldn't be left off. I could get behind Jibbs' list if Plan 9 was replaced by Anatomy of a Murder. "I think that in a few years, in ten, twenty, or thirty years, we will know whether Hiroshima mon amour was the most important film since the war, the first modern film of sound cinema" - Eric Rohmer "It’s difficult to quantify the breadth of Hiroshima’s impact. It remains one of the most influential films in the short history of the medium, first of all because it liberated moviemakers from linear construction. Without Hiroshima, many films thereafter would have been unthinkable, from I Fidanzati to The Pawnbroker to Point Blank to Petulia to Don’t Look Now (and almost every other Nicolas Roeg movie) to Out of Sight and The Limey... But Hiroshima has also had another kind of impact, one less easy to trace. In laying out the particulars of this wholly new film and its relationship to the “nouveau roman,” Rivette made a very important point. He compared Resnais to novelist Pierre Klossowski : “For Klossowski and for Resnais,” he said, “the problem is to give the readers or the viewers the sensation that what they are going to read or see is not an author’s creation but an element of the real world.” This is, once again, a postwar aspiration, completely in keeping with Adorno’s dictum, which ran through all the arts. In the postwar era, beginning with neorealism, certain key filmmakers worked so that reality might maintain its integrity and declare its presence without having to blend into an artificially constructed fiction. Godard took the road staked out by Roberto Rossellini, dissolving the barriers between film time and real time, fictional space and real space, stories and documentaries. But Resnais worked in a vein more reminiscent of Sergei Eisenstein, erecting a complex, rhythmically precise fictional construction in which pieces of reality are caught and allowed to retain their essential strangeness and ominous neutrality. Resnais has always been recognized as an innovator, but the term has a hollow ring. As a morally responsible artist committed to catching pieces of unaltered reality in a carefully constructed net of fiction, he has paved the way for many filmmakers, from the Francesco Rosi of Salvatore Giuliano to the Dusan Makavejev of WR to the Scorsese of Goodfellas and Casino to the Terrence Malick of The Thin Red Line." - Kent Jones, Editor-at-Large of Film Comment
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Dec 15, 2014 8:08:31 GMT -5
I'm in total agreement, I don't want it left off either. But if it comes to it or Anatomy of a Murder, I lean toward Anatomy.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Dec 15, 2014 8:16:50 GMT -5
I'm in total agreement, I don't want it left off either. But if it comes to it or Anatomy of a Murder, I lean toward Anatomy. There are other movies it can replace. I've already spoke my piece on Ben Hur, and I also don't think North By Northwest needs to be there. Popular and well executed as it is, it basically just follows the same formula that Hitchcock had already established decades earlier.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Dec 15, 2014 8:19:15 GMT -5
Before taking off those, I'd say we need to take off Plan 9. It's worthy of consideration, but this is a helluva tight year.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Dec 15, 2014 8:23:01 GMT -5
Before taking off those, I'd say we need to take off Plan 9. It's worthy of consideration, but this is a helluva tight year. Agreed, that was a fun idea when it looked like there was going to be a lot of agreement, but it's clear that there isn't space.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Dec 15, 2014 8:31:18 GMT -5
So...between the two of us it looks like we've settled on:
1. The 400 Blows 2. Anatomy of a Murder 3. Hiroshima mon amour 4. Some Like it Hot 5. Ben-Hur
Let's see if anyone else agrees.
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Post by Neverending on Dec 15, 2014 8:59:28 GMT -5
1. The 400 Blows 2. Anatomy of a Murder 3. Hiroshima mon amour 4. Some Like it Hot 5. Ben-Hur That's fine. Next year, Ian.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Dec 15, 2014 10:39:50 GMT -5
I can get behind that
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Post by iverdawg on Dec 15, 2014 11:01:31 GMT -5
So Sleeping Beauty has 4 votes. It doesn't fit in?
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Post by Dracula on Dec 15, 2014 12:52:07 GMT -5
So Sleeping Beauty has 4 votes. It doesn't fit in? I'm pretty sure one of those four votes was a troll vote.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 12:54:18 GMT -5
Hiroshima mon amour deserves to be in, if it hasn't already been agreed upon.
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Post by Neverending on Dec 15, 2014 15:54:49 GMT -5
So Sleeping Beauty has 4 votes. It doesn't fit in? I'm pretty sure one of those four votes was a troll vote. Even with the troll vote excluded, Sleeping Beauty has more votes than Hiroshima. And if you include Justin, it'll be a tie. And if you ask people to break the tie... I would vote for Sleepy Beauty, Knerys would probably vote for Sleepy Beauty, JBond would probably vote for Sleeping Beauty, and Ian would probably vote for Sleeping Beauty. So... I don't know if this is a game you wanna play. You should probably quit while you're ahead.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on Dec 15, 2014 17:20:39 GMT -5
Maybe we should let them vote instead of having you pick what they'll probably vote for.
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Post by Neverending on Dec 15, 2014 17:56:30 GMT -5
Maybe we should let them vote instead of having you pick what they'll probably vote for. I guess I shouldn't have spoken for Knerys, but JBond and Ian didn't have Hiroshima on their lists. So, I don't know why they would suddenly vote for it just cause you and Dracula are campaigning for it. It's obvious you two didn't make a good enough argument if they didn't put it on their original lists.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Dec 15, 2014 18:08:21 GMT -5
Maybe we should let them vote instead of having you pick what they'll probably vote for. I guess I shouldn't have spoken for Knerys, but JBond and Ian didn't have Hiroshima on their lists. So, I don't know why they would suddenly vote for it just cause you and Dracula are campaigning for it. It's obvious you two didn't make a good enough argument if they didn't put it on their original lists. They didn't have Sleeping Beauty on their lists either, did they?
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Post by Neverending on Dec 15, 2014 18:19:09 GMT -5
They didn't have Sleeping Beauty on their lists either, did they? You had THREE French New Wave movies on your list before we told you Breathless was 1960. They had one. So, I suspect they might lean towards Sleepy Beauty.
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Post by Dracula on Dec 15, 2014 18:39:29 GMT -5
They didn't have Sleeping Beauty on their lists either, did they? You had THREE French New Wave movies on your list before we told you Breathless was 1960. They had one. So, I suspect they might lean towards Sleepy Beauty. The new wave was that important, and given that this is the year it more or less started, it is not unreasonable for there to be two represntatives of it, especially given that these movies are on very opposite ends of the movement.
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Post by Neverending on Dec 15, 2014 18:43:41 GMT -5
The new wave was that important Hey! I agree with you on The 400 Blows and on Breathless for 1960. But Hiroshima? Come on. You're pushing it now. It may have made an impact in 1959, but it's irrelevant now. Godzilla is more important than that movie.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Dec 15, 2014 18:50:24 GMT -5
Talk to any film scholar worth their salt and he or she will tell you in detail why Hiroshima Mon Amour was more important than pretty much every other movie from this year that's being discussed.
If you guys want to replace Ben Hur or maybe even Anatomy of a Murder with Sleeping Beauty I could maybe accept it, but I am not fucking budging on Hiroshima.
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Post by IanTheCool on Dec 15, 2014 18:58:19 GMT -5
Yikes. What I would like to know is why does anatomy of a murder need to be there?
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Dec 15, 2014 19:02:53 GMT -5
Yikes. What I would like to know is why does anatomy of a murder need to be there? It (along with some other Otto Preminger, Billy Wilder, and Stanley Krammer films) explored controversial themes in frank and mature ways and moved Hollywood filmmaking in a more adult direction... however, its effect was largely confined to Hollywood filmmaking while Hiroshima Mon Amour had a major effect on ALL filmmaking, which is why I may ultimately have to abandon it if it comes down to those two.
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Post by Neverending on Dec 15, 2014 19:16:29 GMT -5
Talk to any film scholar worth their salt and he or she will tell you in detail why Hiroshima Mon Amour was more important than pretty much every other movie from this year that's being discussed. Film Scholars/Teachers/Critics, people who wanted to make movies but didn't have the talent. Reality is, nobody cares about that movie. Ben-Hur is important because of cutting-edge technical work that inspired generations of actual filmmmakers. Sleepy Beauty is important because of cutting-edge animation that inspired generations of actual artists. Some Like It Hot is important because it's a great movie that inspired generations of actual comedians. The 400 Blows and Anatomy of a Murder are important because it explored relevant themes in adult ways and inspired generations of actual writers and directors to do the same. Hiroshima? Name me all the actual filmmakers who have cited it among their favorite movies? And don't start naming people who were making movies in 1959. Give me examples of directors from 2014.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 19:22:26 GMT -5
I don't think you need to start insulting critics to get a point across. I'd argue that Hiroshima mon amour is equally as technically innovative. Look at the nonlinear storytelling; to wit: "It was a major catalyst for the Nouvelle Vague (French New Wave), making highly innovative use of miniature flashbacks to create a uniquely nonlinear storyline."
-"Hiroshima mon amour has been described as "The Birth of a Nation of the French New Wave" by American critic Leonard Maltin." - "New Wave filmmaker Jean-Luc Godard described the film's inventiveness as "Faulkner plus Stravinsky" and celebrated its originality, calling it "the first film without any cinematic references"." - "Filmmaker Eric Rohmer said, "I think that in a few years, in ten, twenty, or thirty years, we will know whether Hiroshima mon amour was the most important film since the war, the first modern film of sound cinema".
Sounds pretty important to me. A majority of these critics are also filmmakers, BTW. This is going to become an argument concerning high-brow versus middle-brow. So, instead, I'm sure we can find some middle ground. I'd rather have Anatomy of a Murder removed, with Sleeping Beauty as its replacement.
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Post by Neverending on Dec 15, 2014 19:27:11 GMT -5
Look at the nonlinear storytelling Non-linear filmmaking wasn't really "a thing" until Quentin Tarantino came along. And he has cited BOOKS as his inspiration.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 19:30:18 GMT -5
I think you may be confusing "important in the history of film" with "important among regular audiences". One of which is actually relevant and stays pertinent, while the other is a flavor-of-the-month. In fact, that's even more of a reason to include it. There are very few films that were doing this before Hiroshima, if any. QT, on the other hand, is just splicing and remixing old movies like a DJ. Resnais was utilizing this technique before anyone even really cared.
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