FShuttari
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Post by FShuttari on May 24, 2017 1:55:36 GMT -5
Meh... I really liked davids storyline and his growth as an android wishing to be a character.
I was more interested in david in Prometheus and I'm glad this sequel focuses on him.
I guess if I wanted an alien movie or characters that were more interesting or Intelligent I would have been disappointed too.
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PG Cooper
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Post by PG Cooper on May 25, 2017 15:35:42 GMT -5
Contrary to a lot of people, I rather enjoyed Prometheus when it first came out and on a rewatch last year I still found it to be a pretty good movie. It definitely has a lot of script problems, but the visuals are fantastic, there are a handful of excellent set-pieces, and its sheer ambition really wins me over. I like that film’s musings on our place in the universe, but more generally I also respect how Ridley Scott was trying to do something new with this world. This last point is why I had a hard time mustering much enthusiasm for Alien: Covenant, which largely looked to be the pandering Alien prequel Prometheus avoided being. The film, it turns out, is more of a direct continuation of Prometheus than expected, it nonetheless feels to be abandoning any of that films lofty ambitions in favour of a return to formula where a space vessel comes across a mysterios signal leading to face hugging, chest bursting, and xenomorphs chasing their prey to gory ends.
Set ten years after Prometheus, Alien: Covenant follows a totally unrelated ship, the titular Covenant, on its mission to colonize a distant planet. The ship however receives signal from a closer planet which also seems to support life and the crew decide to investigate, much to the chagrin of second-in-command Daniels Branson (Katherine Waterston), who believes it an unnecessary risk. Her fears are confirmed to be true when the Covenant arrives to the planet and not only find vegetation, water, and a breathable atmosphere, but also a mysterious chemical biohazard causing violent mutations as well as mysterious alien creatures causing all sorts of violent havoc. The crew are temporarily saved however by David (Michael Fassbender), the android who served on the Prometheus. David forms a particular kinship with the android for the Covenant, an upgraded model still of the same make named Walter (also Michael Fassbender). The crew try to contend with the hostile threat on the planet while also trying to make sense of how David got here.
That plot outline likely evokes other films in the franchise, most notably Prometheus and the original Alien, and indeed, Covenant is happy to ape from the previous films of the franchise. The basic set-up is basically a mash up of Alien and Prometheus, Daniels is very clearly meant to be this film’s Ripley (right down to being the second-in-command who is clearly much wiser than those in charge), and while Prometheus shunned traditional xenomorph action, Covenant embraces it fully. This might sound pleasing to a lot of fans, but in actuality the xenomorph action is actually some of the worst aspects of the film. Rather than stalk their prey silently from the shadows as had been tradition in the earlier Alien films (yes, even Aliens), here, the aliens use brute force, attacking our heroes in broad daylight with the utmost aggression. Not only does this forgo the intelligence these creatures are supposed to possess, but it also robs these scenes of the suspense which has defined the best films of the series. Instead, these set-pieces come closer to simplistic action scenes and they often border on being completely ridiculous, something made all the more jarring by the film’s rich visual style and dramatic performances.
Alien: Covenant also suffers from a generally boring cast of characters. These people are all clearly meant as stand-ins for characters we’ve seen prior but they’re all pretty disposable. Katherine Waterston’s Daniels is clearly meant to echo Sigourney Weaver’s Ripley, but the character arc is not nearly as powerful as it is in Alien and for all of Waterston’s talents as an actress she isn’t able to bring the same presence to Daniels as Weaver did to Ripley. Billy Cudrup has a role as Covenant’s captain and while the character’s religious convictions are emphasized, they don’t really go anywhere nor do they add anything. The rest of the cast is completely forgettable in spite of the presence of charismatic performers like Demian Bichir and Danny McBride. Say what you will about the simplistic characterizations of Prometheus, but at least that film had some inkling of character. The one actor who does stand out is, unsurprisingly, Michael Fassbender in dual roles as David and Walter. David has evolved in interesting ways while Walter’s quiet humility contrasts nicely with David’s eccentricity and ego. The scenes with both characters together are some of the film’s best and it’s really rewarding to watch Fassbender play off himself. David in particular remains a really strong character and his presence alone does a lot to elevate Alien: Covenant.
The other major positive Alien: Covenant has going for it is Ridley Scott in the director’s chair. Through thick and thin, Scott has always remained an amazing visual filmmaker and indeed Covenant looks hauntingly beautiful. It’s clear Scott spent a lot of time crafting his scenes and his passion for this world is well on display. Compared to Scott’s ground-breaking work on the original Alien or Blade Runner, Covenant may not seem so special, but compared to the average blockbuster the film certainly stands out. The cold blue cinematography feels entirely appropriate, Scott does some really striking stuff with lighting, and the production design is pretty great. These technical aspects and visual ambition do a lot to elevate the film and while the screenplay does have a lot of problems, there are some interesting ideas too. I won’t go into spoilers, but I like the premise of what David is doing and while the film does sort of backtrack away from the lofty goals of Prometheus, the way the film does so is still enticing and does feel strangely appropriate.
So overall, is Alien: Covenant a good movie? I’m not really sure. It’s a messy film, even more so than Prometheus which, for all its shortcomings at least had some pretty firm goals and an ambition to try something new with the franchise. Covenant is much more content to rest on the series’ laurels and doesn’t even execute spectacularly well on the franchise formula. Still, I won’t deny that the film did compel me. From the dual Fassbender performances, to the rich visuals, to some of the film’s weirder elements, Alien: Covenant is enticing. This isn’t something I think anyone really needs to see, but it is an interesting little chapter in the Alien saga.
B-
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FShuttari
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Post by FShuttari on May 25, 2017 16:12:23 GMT -5
I agree with you PG Cooper but I'm not sure if the movie will have the same value as Prometheus did when it came to rewatching.
Prometheus definitely got better with more views for me
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PhantomKnight
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Post by PhantomKnight on May 25, 2017 19:15:02 GMT -5
I liked it. It was good. It worked as an Alien movie. But Prometheus it is not.
I would've much preferred the story to be about what David was up to in the ten years between movies, and I bet that was the original plan before Fox basically ordered Ridley Scott to just make another Alien movie.
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Fanible
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Post by Fanible on May 27, 2017 0:16:32 GMT -5
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Post by Jibbs on May 28, 2017 22:45:53 GMT -5
Not one person made a decision in this movie that wasn't stupid or derived in getting the movie to the spot it "needed" to be. Also, this film doesn't exactly properly advocate the idea of sending couples into space.
**/****
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on May 28, 2017 23:15:26 GMT -5
Not one person made a decision in this movie that wasn't stupid or derived in getting the movie to the spot it "needed" to be. Also, this film doesn't exactly properly advocate the idea of sending couples into space. **/****So is Alien the new Star Wars prequels?
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Jibbs
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Post by Jibbs on May 29, 2017 0:53:37 GMT -5
There's obviously nowhere for these films to go. There hasn't for a long time, apparently.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on May 29, 2017 3:06:11 GMT -5
There's obviously nowhere for these films to go. There hasn't for a long time, apparently. Alien Resurrection is looking really good right now.
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Ramplate
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Post by Ramplate on May 29, 2017 7:23:12 GMT -5
Prometheus pffft!
When you're on open ground, and a big rock is rolling towards you - take a right or a left! Trying to out run it gets you a Darwin Award, and makes you die tired.
Yes, I am still smh about that one
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Jibbs
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Post by Jibbs on May 29, 2017 18:01:45 GMT -5
There's obviously nowhere for these films to go. There hasn't for a long time, apparently. Alien Resurrection is looking really good right now. Huh?
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filmjerk
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Post by filmjerk on May 29, 2017 22:02:24 GMT -5
So, why was James Franco cut from the whole movie other than the video scene ?
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FShuttari
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Post by FShuttari on May 30, 2017 0:00:44 GMT -5
Cuz it was pointless. His. His character dies in the first scene of the movie.
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Seakazoo
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Post by Seakazoo on May 30, 2017 10:20:50 GMT -5
Alien Couples Retreat: The most tolerable James Franco has ever been.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on May 31, 2017 22:54:32 GMT -5
Alright, I'm gonna go retro-Sno on this review and I'm not sorry for it. This movie was a fucking trainwreck that has me pondering if it's actually worse than Alien: Resurrection. When we eagerly anticipate the next film in a franchise, perhaps we are almost always destined to be disappointed. We want the following films to represent what made the original so great while bringing new ideas to the table. When we see a Bond film, we want the particular tropes that we've come to expect but we also hope for the latest installment to bring new ideas to the table and wow us like the original did. James Cameron was able to do just this with Aliens; he took a horror/thriller/sci-fi classic and molded it into one of the best action films ever made while still staying true to the original film's roots, feel, and ideas. Since then this franchise has been unable to reinvent itself. Alien3 is essentially a crappy version of Alien, Alien: Resurrection is essentially a crappy version of Aliens. So when Prometheus came out in 2012 attempting something drastically different from the other four films, it's not surprising that so many were greatly divided on the result. I've only seen it once, but I remember being pretty much in the middle on it. On the one hand I liked that it attempted to shake up the formula and introduce some lore to the franchise, but on the other hand it was filled with mostly forgettable characters and not a whole lot of thrills. Well, the producers and Ridley Scott have heard the bitching and have answered with the most generic, bland, and tedious film of the series with Alien: Covenant. This is a movie that's not only terrible, but also as predictable as any film you'll see all year. Prometheus, whether you liked it or not, at least has to get some credit for attempting something, anything at all, even as misguided as this attempt was. Alien: Covenant is a film that insults its viewers by dumbing everything down in the most unabashed of ways. Here we have a film where we're made to believe that a team of expert scientists, chemists, pilots, etc. think that they should abandon their mission that they've planned for months for simply because they hear a radio signal. A film where all of these characters make awful decisions that make casts of Friday the 13th films look brilliant. A film where contrived plot occurrences are as frequent as the awful alien designs that inhabit this movie. A film where nothing is good, nothing at fucking all. I have to admit that I was pissed off right from the get-go. Immediately the crew encounters some sort of solar flare or some stupid shit while sleeping and instantly lose Captain James Franco in perhaps the most poorly setup death scene I've ever seen in cinema, no hyperbole. Were we supposed to care at all? Was this their idea of jolting the audience into an action packed opening? The pointlessness of it is unbelievable. After this awful beginning, Billy Crudup takes over as the Captain and is instantly unlikeable. Oh no, they're grieving instead of working on ship repairs, this is all because I'm religious! What? What the fuck? Again, all of this is just thrown at us. The script takes no time to actually develop anyone, and as a result we literally don't care about a single character in this film. No one is likable, interesting, funny, or unique in any way. All the stock characters are here, and boy do we not give a fuck. It's another example of Ridley Scott delving himself into his visuals, which are one of two saving graces of this film, and not investing anything into the plot. To make matters even more absurd, after encountering a strange radio transmission blaring John Denver, Captain Crudup decides to forgo the mission that they've all planned for and researched on for months in order to travel to a planet that appears similar to Earth in order to investigate this. Yeah, real smart. Only Katherine Waterston's character raises any objection to this, making a good point that perhaps since the ship is carrying two thousand people looking to colonize that they shouldn't jeopardize the mission. And so instead of sending probes down to this planet or even a few people, they send nearly the whole damn crew to a planet that they have no intel on. Another smart move. From here, the film divulges into the most run-of-the-mill Alien film ever. More absurd occurrences happen and people begin to get infected, and we all know how the rest of this soulless shit plays out. One of the most alarming elements of this film is the complete lack of suspense. I never thought I'd pine for a character by themselves to hear a noise and slowly walk down a long, dark hallway to investigate it until this film. Nope, a person is alone, we hear a familiar sound, they turn around, and then they're dead. So, fucking, lazy. Characters are dispatched in the most unimaginative of ways, not that we care because again all of these characters have no arcs or intrigue to them whatsoever. While the film contains some brilliantly designed set pieces and visuals, none of them are put to use to even generate a capable chase sequence. See how bad this movie is? I'm begging for a fucking chase sequence to shake things up. It's such a frustrating movie because it's so apparent that no original thought went into the film and the screenwriters just wanted to check characters off the list until we arrive to the inevitable last character standing vs. alien showdown. Slasher films have more creativity when it comes to this than a movie that cost over $100 million to make. Again, none of this is helped by all of the characters being complete idiots. "Oh sure, I just discovered a major secret about David so I definitely shouldn't trust him, but hey, he told me to stick my face down an alien egg so sure, why not?" This is paltry screenwriting at its worst, and a total embarrassment that this ended up being what they went with. The climax is also the worst in the series. You think about how iconic the end sequences are for Alien and Aliens, and then you reflect on what they chose to do here and you can't help but feel entirely underwhelmed. With all that money, all that visual effects prowess to flex, it's just another disheartening example of this movie refusing to be interesting or unique. Ridley Scott heard the criticisms that Prometheus wasn't Alien enough, and so he doubled down on the generic bullshit much to our dismay. Perhaps the only positive of the film aside from the visual effects and production design is Michael Fassbender returning as David the android, though in much cartoonier fashion here. It's sad that an android is far more interesting and dynamic than any human character in the film, but that's certainly the case here. Yes, his quest of demonstrating that androids are creators and existential beings is nothing new within the realm of artificial intelligence aspiring to be more, but it's the only theme that even exists in this fucking movie so we gotta latch onto something. This too is poorly executed though, as the screenplay overplays its already pretty obvious had to bring full circle that David is the bad guy here who is breeding the aliens to destroy and even brings in a completely contrived twist into the mix for more good measure of shit. The ending of the film doesn't shock because how we get there is cheap. While we're supposed to be enthralled by the bleak ending, instead we're just waiting for this awful movie to come to a miserable close. So basically the things I liked about the film are Michael Fassbender's dual performances (and that kiss will live in infamous stupidity forever) and the film's visuals and production design. That's it. This is not only a bad movie, but it's a preposterous one without any of the fun. It essentially plays out like a Friday the 13th film dressed up in space with a massive budget, and it's just as bad as the worst entries of that series. Yes, it's far from the worst movie I've seen which is why I'm giving it the points I am, but it still doesn't detract from my immense displeasure and outrage and how lazy and generic this film is. Ridley Scott should be ashamed of himself for thinking that this was an acceptable response to Prometheus. Seriously, if that guy hadn't had The Martian we would all be speculating if this awful dreck was the final nail in his directing coffin. This is a movie that expects you not to care about its unlikable stock characters, or their terrible decision making. It's a movie that expects you not to demand anything from it other than pure popcorn thrills, which ironically it completely fails to deliver as well. It's a movie that doesn't even give a half-hearted attempt at expanding on the mythology and mystery of Prometheus, or any of the Alien films for that matter. It's a movie that expects you not to call it out for not having a single original bone in its frail body. This is a movie that I know I never have to see again. I'd only hate it more on repeat viewings. There's nothing that this film offers other than a lesson on why complacency is a terrible thing. Prometheus was a deeply flawed film that still earned merits from me for attempting to be something, anything. Alien: Covenant is the awful piece of fan fiction that you laugh at and remark this will never get made. A very low 5/10
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on May 31, 2017 23:54:48 GMT -5
If anything good comes from this maybe they'll rethink giving Neil Blompkamp the reins and let him do his direct Aliens sequel.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Jun 1, 2017 7:13:36 GMT -5
Hey Sno, tell us how you really feel.
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Seakazoo
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Post by Seakazoo on Jun 1, 2017 10:37:08 GMT -5
Oram had to start out unlikable. He admits to Daniels that she was right and it was a bad idea to deviate from the mission. Imagine how big of a failure you would feel like if you had made that call. I feel like him admitting that he was wrong turned him into enough of a sympathetic character that you feel bad when he falls for the "hey, stick your face in this" trick.
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SnoBorderZero
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Post by SnoBorderZero on Jun 1, 2017 23:17:08 GMT -5
That's true, but it's still ridiculous how he handled everything with David. His character had no instincts for anything and just made completely rash decisions every time. Then again considering the other members of the crew, I guess they had no better options for second in command.
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Fanible
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Post by Fanible on Jun 1, 2017 23:39:59 GMT -5
Being fooled by the "stick your face in this" trick was probably the one dumb thing he did. He was actually one of the smarter characters in the movie, but that isn't saying much. Although they were all pretty dumb going down on that planet without suits, and being captain, I guess that would have been his call.
Soooo... I guess what I'm saying is I didn't care about any of em. They were all walking Darwin Awards waiting to happen.
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thebtskink
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Post by thebtskink on Jun 2, 2017 6:33:19 GMT -5
I never saw the suits or helmet thing as dumb in either movie.
Breathable air is the primary concern. A space helmet isnt an assault protection device.
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Neverending
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Post by Neverending on Jun 2, 2017 11:12:20 GMT -5
I never saw the suits or helmet thing as dumb in either movie. Breathable air is the primary concern. A space helmet isnt an assault protection device. In Star Trek they visit planets without helmets ALL THE TIME.
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Fanible
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Post by Fanible on Jun 2, 2017 13:41:25 GMT -5
I never saw the suits or helmet thing as dumb in either movie. Breathable air is the primary concern. A space helmet isnt an assault protection device. The irony in thinking otherwise I would think should be very clear, in this movie alone. The main reason you want to wear a suit is due to unknown pathogens, the very thing that put everything in the movie in motion. Even with suits on, they would/should all have been placed in quarantine immediately upon returning. Granted, it may have more easily been forgotten if the crew didn't continue to do dumb thing after dumb thing for the entirety of the rest of the movie. That one nitpick was basically just the start of it all. People being unusually dumb is a typical trope in horror movies, but you would think this movie should have been on another level. But that's thing about directing and writing. A lot of these things you could easily still include so your protagonists don't look like complete idiots and you can still find a way for chaos to ensue. Even if it's as simple as an extra line or two.
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Dracula
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Post by Dracula on Jun 5, 2017 0:55:33 GMT -5
Yeah, yeah, late as hell
Alien: Covenant(5/21/2017)
Having original opinions can be lonely sometimes. That’s especially true now that we live in the era of the bandwagon and the pile-on when it comes to the popular opinion on movies. Maybe I’m just being wrongly nostalgic but I feel like there was a time when opinions about movies used to spread a bit more organically whereas today it seems like consensuses are basically built by instantly posted reviews by critics two days before a movie comes out and are then either confirmed or slightly tweaked after a weekend of tweets. There might be a backlash sometime around a week after the film comes out and maybe a backlash to the backlash the next week but for the most part the die seems to be cast for a movie pretty fast and if you’re on the outside of the consensus you can easily find yourself in a pretty lonely place. One movie that got pretty cruelly shot down in this environment was Ridley Scott’s 2012 film Prometheus, a prequel to the 1979 classic Alien which sought to expand the series beyond its horror roots and use it as a platform to examine scientific and philosophical ideas. It also had a couple of plot holes and script problems, and as such it was quickly torn apart by the consensus. Personally, I rather liked it. I could recognize its problems but felt like they were more than outweighed by its visual grandeur and ambitious storytelling and while the film does have other defenders they’ve been pretty well drowned out too by the sometimes kind of nasty wave of negativity that hit the film. Now four years later Ridley Scott has come out with a follow-up called Alien: Covenant and it may well rekindle all the arguments that raged around the previous prequel.
Despite what the title may suggest, this is very much a sequel to Prometheus and picks up about 15 years after that movie’s conclusion. We are once again following a rather ill-fated space voyage, this time of a colonization ship called The Covenant which is headed for an uninhabited planet which could serve as a base for a new society. At the film’s start everyone on board except for the android Walter (Michael Fassbender, playing a different robot from the one he played in Prometheus) is in stasis when a sudden accident hits the ship killing a handful of the sleeping colonists including the captain. The rest of the crew is woken up and needs to immediately stabilize the ship. With that done they suddenly realize that they are actually close to another planet that may well be an inhabitable alternative to the planet they were initially headed to. Deciding that they need to explore this world before they think about waking up the rest of the colonists the new acting captain Christopher Oram (Billy Crudup) decides to lead a landing party despite the objections of his second in command Dany Branson (Katherine Waterson). When they land they suddenly realize that this planet has had other visitors previously and strange things happen when they run into a mysterious black substance on the ground.
Prometheus was in many ways a pretty bold movie. It was Ridley Scott rather defiantly making the statement that Alien was a series that wasn’t defined by Xenomorphs so much as it was defined by an aesthetic, at least when Ridley Scott was making it. Scott proceeded to use that world and aesthetic to explore what humanity is willing to do in order to find the meaning of life. While doing that, it also proved to be kind of clumsy when it sought to also be something of a monster movie. Critics certainly seized on the movie’s questionable moments and used them to dismiss it, which is a reaction that was on one hand understandable and yet on the other hand a bit dismissive. In many ways it felt like the film was being punished for its pretension and for the raised expectations that it had elicited with its promising trailer and highbrow title. For the sequel Ridley Scott and 20th Century Fox seem to have realized that and done everything they could to signal that this is in fact a very much a monster movie. It’s put the word “Alien” in the title and it has a xenomorph front and center in in pretty much every advertisement for the movie. However, despite what the title would have you believe this is still very much a sequel to Prometheus in terms of storyline and also tries to retains many of its sensibilities while also functioning as a monster movie and the results can be rather schizophrenic in terms of tone.
Prometheus ended with what appeared to be the creation of the first xenomorph through the combination of an Engineer and a squid-like monster that was implanted into the Noomi Rapace character and removed using a medical station. This is pretty much ignored if not re-coned out of existence by Alien: Covenant and we are instead given a new interpretation of how the xenomorph came to be. This is the most Prometheus-like element of the movie. I don’t want to give too much about this away but let’s just say that it involves a mad scientist, interesting imagery and Percy Shelly quotes. Prometheus was also plenty pretentious but it seemed a little more earnest about it, here it almost kind of just feels like the new writing staff is a lot less interested and are just doing their best to throw a few philosophical ideas because that’s considered to be part of the franchise now. That isn’t to say that a couple of these ideas aren’t without interest, but they seem weaker and they sometimes clash with some of the more base genre elements that are here as well. These genre elements are… alright. There’s certainly some nicely gooey looking gore here and a few interesting set-pieces, but a lot of them seem like they should be a lot more exciting in theory than they actually are.
The movie certainly isn’t as suspenseful as Alien, not by a long shot, and it also isn’t anywhere near as thrilling and action packed as Aliens. In fact the Alien movie is most reminds me of might actually be Alien 3. Like that movie this tries to go back to the “one or two aliens versus multiple humans” but less effectively than the original, and like that movie it does have a few decent kill scenes, and like that movie it has a slightly undercooked but potentially interesting element of character study. Needless to say, that isn’t the Alien movie you want to be compared to but to be fair it is better than being compared to Alien: Resurrection or one of the Alien Vs. Predator movies. Ridley Scott does remain a solid craftsman and the movie does share a lot of the solid design work and cinematography that made Prometheus work as well as it did even if they don’t seem as fresh and interesting this time around, but it also carries over that movie’s tendency to have its characters do remarkably stupid things to get themselves killed, and frankly I think this movie is way worse in that regard. In many ways it’s a movie that just carries over a lot of its predecessor’s flaws while also minimizing a lot of its strengths to almost be the worst of both worlds and it’s only through Ridley Scott’s skill and hutzpah that it isn’t a much bigger disaster than it is.
** out of Five
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Deexan
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Post by Deexan on Jun 9, 2017 9:35:13 GMT -5
The best bit was the Ghost-esque scene with two Fassbenders playing a recorder. The sexual tension was palpable.
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